I have a 6yo female Cocker x Springer Spaniel who incessantly chews, licks and scratches at herself. It has become so bad that she now lives in a cone collar so she can't get to her face, but the rest of her body is covered in huge red sores and not much hair. If she can reach it, she will scratch it until it bleeds. We have been down the avenues of food and contact allergies, mange and flea treatments, but none of the medication she is on seems to be doing anything. Three seperate vets have suggested euthanisation.
Everyone thinks that I am crazy, but I really do think that it has become a habit for her, like how people will chew their fingernails until they bleed. Only it has been complicated by infections and the like. Is it possible my little pooch is a self mutillator? I think she is an anxious dog, she can be quite skittish at times, but she never seems to really worry when we have to leave her by herself.
The problem started about 3 years ago (well, that's when we first noticed it anyway), we had a Staffy cross pup who was extremely possessive over everything, and became quite aggressive towards the Cocker. We eventually had to have the pup euthanised, as she was also an escape artist and we live across from a school. I was terrified she would hurt someone, and given the chance, she probably would have. But still the scratching continued. In fact, it got much, much worse. So basically, I am desperately trying to find something new to try, anything at all, to try and help my doggie to learn to not scratch at herself (if it is possible) before she has to be put to sleep. Please help me!
Self mutilation? HELP!!
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
Could you give us a run-down of her daily schedule? What do you feed her? Have you done allergy testing, and if so, what were the results?
I don't have any experience with anything like this, so I don't think I can help - but answering these questions might help others get a better understanding of the situation. Best of luck to you and your girl!
I don't have any experience with anything like this, so I don't think I can help - but answering these questions might help others get a better understanding of the situation. Best of luck to you and your girl!
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
Sure, she starts the day with Atopica (allergy medication which she must have on an empty stomach), then we go for a 45 minute walk and a 15 minute bike ride (she runs alongside), then a brush down for about 10 minutes and eye and ear drops. We let her sniff around the yard for an hour or so, then she gets a prednisone and an antibiotic with food, usually 1 scoop of sensitive skin biscuits with some sardines mixed in with organic beef mince. Around 12 I will put a few organic chicken necks around the yard for her to find (we have easier access to organic food than non, in case you were wondering), and a play in the backyard for about 1/2 hour. I normally start work late in the afternoon, but my girlfriend usually will do a walk at about 5, more food with antibiotics and a cuddle on the lounge. She gets washed (the dog, not my girlfriend lol) roughly twice a week in medicated shampoo with leave in conditioner (due to the yucky yeasty smell), but sometimes less, depending on the smell. She will often get ear infections, but they are pretty clear at the moment. She has had biopsies and skin scrapings which all came up negative for mites, but as yet has not seen an allergist. Our vet told us that it is a waste of money because she is already on the medications that they would prescribe. We did do a trial allergy test for grass, pollen and dust (the 3 most common allergens) on her belly, but it didn't do anything.
Seriously, any suggestions, be it behavioural or medications we haven't tried would be greatly appreciated
Seriously, any suggestions, be it behavioural or medications we haven't tried would be greatly appreciated
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
I will pre-face this with pointing out that I am NOT a vet, and I will also warn you that what I will say, some vets might well not agree with (and I know that some would)...
So, what *I* would do is this.
Knock off the biscuits, she doesn't need them if shes getting a varied raw diet and it sounds like you can provide that quite easily. Just up her quantities of things like chicken wings, necks, other RMB's and stuff.
When you make this change I would put her on just one protein source and one vegetable to start with, chicken is the easiest but its also one of the more likely things to be causing a food allergy, because its in pretty much everything, so bear that in mind. I'd go with chicken and spinach or chicken and celery... something like that.
The other thing I would add to her diet, is live plain yoghurt - although dairy is generally not good for dogs, yoghurt has a very low lactose content and its the lactose that causes the problems - yoghurt should act as a probiotic which will help her digestive system.
Right now she has a LOT of things going in there, a lot of meds too - I would suspect that the biscuits and the antibiotics are whats responsible for the yeasty pong but obviously I cannot (and would not) advise you to stop the meds, so cutting down the food to just three simple ingredients that are 'known' (as in you know exactly what they are and they won't change, unlike a dog food!) and should support her digestion should really help.
After six weeks review and see if you have seen any improvement - if you have, add in ONE other ingredient, I would go with the sardines there (in oil or plain, not brine or tomato).
Beef is another ingredient quite likely to cause digestive problems - can I ask, what is her poo like? (sorry, grim I know!).
IF you havent seen any improvement in six weeks, switch the chicken for a novel protein source, something she hasn't had before - you might need to get a bit crazy about this and feed venison or ostrich or duck, or pork, something you wouldn't normally find in dog food, or feed (its hard because these days even duck and venison are not uncommon ingredients in standard brands!).
The other thing I would do is to keep her mentally or physically occupied for as much of the time as you possibly can - things like clicker training (I appreciate when your only reward is the same as she gets for dinner, chicken.. thats not going to be SO easy), puzzle solving stuff etc. Get her eating her food from kong toys where possible (you won't get a chicken wing in a smaller kong, I've tried) or feed it frozen so she has to chew at it longer.
I would hold off washing her if at all possible - some of those medicated shampoos are very harsh and the more you strip the oils from a coat, the more oil it will produce which becomes a vicious circle.
I would also discuss with the vet stopping the steroid for a trial period - there is not much point in doing an exclusion diet to identify a food allergy if shes on something that suppresses the reaction, however IF she is still reacting even whilst on the prednisolone, you might get a fair indication if the exclusion diet is working even with her still on it.
Out of interest, what dry biscuits is she eating currently?
So, what *I* would do is this.
Knock off the biscuits, she doesn't need them if shes getting a varied raw diet and it sounds like you can provide that quite easily. Just up her quantities of things like chicken wings, necks, other RMB's and stuff.
When you make this change I would put her on just one protein source and one vegetable to start with, chicken is the easiest but its also one of the more likely things to be causing a food allergy, because its in pretty much everything, so bear that in mind. I'd go with chicken and spinach or chicken and celery... something like that.
The other thing I would add to her diet, is live plain yoghurt - although dairy is generally not good for dogs, yoghurt has a very low lactose content and its the lactose that causes the problems - yoghurt should act as a probiotic which will help her digestive system.
Right now she has a LOT of things going in there, a lot of meds too - I would suspect that the biscuits and the antibiotics are whats responsible for the yeasty pong but obviously I cannot (and would not) advise you to stop the meds, so cutting down the food to just three simple ingredients that are 'known' (as in you know exactly what they are and they won't change, unlike a dog food!) and should support her digestion should really help.
After six weeks review and see if you have seen any improvement - if you have, add in ONE other ingredient, I would go with the sardines there (in oil or plain, not brine or tomato).
Beef is another ingredient quite likely to cause digestive problems - can I ask, what is her poo like? (sorry, grim I know!).
IF you havent seen any improvement in six weeks, switch the chicken for a novel protein source, something she hasn't had before - you might need to get a bit crazy about this and feed venison or ostrich or duck, or pork, something you wouldn't normally find in dog food, or feed (its hard because these days even duck and venison are not uncommon ingredients in standard brands!).
The other thing I would do is to keep her mentally or physically occupied for as much of the time as you possibly can - things like clicker training (I appreciate when your only reward is the same as she gets for dinner, chicken.. thats not going to be SO easy), puzzle solving stuff etc. Get her eating her food from kong toys where possible (you won't get a chicken wing in a smaller kong, I've tried) or feed it frozen so she has to chew at it longer.
I would hold off washing her if at all possible - some of those medicated shampoos are very harsh and the more you strip the oils from a coat, the more oil it will produce which becomes a vicious circle.
I would also discuss with the vet stopping the steroid for a trial period - there is not much point in doing an exclusion diet to identify a food allergy if shes on something that suppresses the reaction, however IF she is still reacting even whilst on the prednisolone, you might get a fair indication if the exclusion diet is working even with her still on it.
Out of interest, what dry biscuits is she eating currently?
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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ClareMarsh
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:11 am
- Location: London, UK
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
I'm with Emmabeth (although I'd probably not even bother with the veg to start with, and likely buy a probiotic for dogs rather than give yoghurt but that is just personal preference and you know your dog best 
).
I wanted to share a few stories from the blog that I run which may give you some hope that this can be fixed or at the very least improved by more strictly controlling your dog's diet. Some of these were despite vets have "tried everything". There's more stories on the blog but these are the most pertinent. None of them are by vets or advise as such, just examples of how owners have helped their dogs.
Sasha (her owner is on this board) and alergies http://tinkerwolf.com/2012/05/22/switch ... pys-story/
Kuzco hair regrowth http://tinkerwolf.com/2012/07/24/kuzcos ... -3-months/
Tilly and allergies/hot spots http://tinkerwolf.com/2012/07/31/tillys ... allergies/
Come back and ask any further questions, good luck
).I wanted to share a few stories from the blog that I run which may give you some hope that this can be fixed or at the very least improved by more strictly controlling your dog's diet. Some of these were despite vets have "tried everything". There's more stories on the blog but these are the most pertinent. None of them are by vets or advise as such, just examples of how owners have helped their dogs.
Sasha (her owner is on this board) and alergies http://tinkerwolf.com/2012/05/22/switch ... pys-story/
Kuzco hair regrowth http://tinkerwolf.com/2012/07/24/kuzcos ... -3-months/
Tilly and allergies/hot spots http://tinkerwolf.com/2012/07/31/tillys ... allergies/
Come back and ask any further questions, good luck
Proud owner of Ted and baby Ella
My blog about Ted http://tinkerwolf.com/
Ted's Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/Tinkerwolf
Ted's You Tube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTedVids
My blog about Ted http://tinkerwolf.com/
Ted's Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/Tinkerwolf
Ted's You Tube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTedVids
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
Thank you for your suggestions, I had not thought of yoghurt for dogs. The other stuff with the food is something we have tried, different protein sources and veg, but that just seemed to upset her gut, even though the changes were really gradual. Runny poos are not fun to pick up 
Thankfully, they are much better now.
She is on Science Diet Z-D for her biscuits, only because we bought a giant bag for her last food trial and have heaps left over. Otherwise, we plan to go back to making our own with dried liver in them. The exact recipe I can't remember, it has been so long since she's had them, but I do like knowing exactly what she's eating. I am rather fond of hiding her food around, she likes it too, but I worry if I do it for all of her meals she might start ripping up the yard as well. Open sores with dirt in them - not great I'm guessing. Unfortunately, she won't touch her kongs, and has lost interest in all of her toys as well. We do change them quite regularly, but I get the "and just what is THAT?!" look. So I literally have to run around the yard like a madwoman for her to play. She likes to play chase. She used to like cuddles but now she's more interested in rubbing her face on the grass. Poor darling.
Thank you for the links as well, I am now rethinking her biscuits. Food for thought, so they say. I am dubious though, as I haven't had results with medications, but it can't hurt.
My main thing at the moment is to try and enforce the no scratching. Don't scratch, get a treat. I know it's not that simple, but it is something I would like to try. Any suggestions on how to do that, because I have no clue. I don't want to confuse her, I just want her to stop.
Thankfully, they are much better now.She is on Science Diet Z-D for her biscuits, only because we bought a giant bag for her last food trial and have heaps left over. Otherwise, we plan to go back to making our own with dried liver in them. The exact recipe I can't remember, it has been so long since she's had them, but I do like knowing exactly what she's eating. I am rather fond of hiding her food around, she likes it too, but I worry if I do it for all of her meals she might start ripping up the yard as well. Open sores with dirt in them - not great I'm guessing. Unfortunately, she won't touch her kongs, and has lost interest in all of her toys as well. We do change them quite regularly, but I get the "and just what is THAT?!" look. So I literally have to run around the yard like a madwoman for her to play. She likes to play chase. She used to like cuddles but now she's more interested in rubbing her face on the grass. Poor darling.
Thank you for the links as well, I am now rethinking her biscuits. Food for thought, so they say. I am dubious though, as I haven't had results with medications, but it can't hurt.
My main thing at the moment is to try and enforce the no scratching. Don't scratch, get a treat. I know it's not that simple, but it is something I would like to try. Any suggestions on how to do that, because I have no clue. I don't want to confuse her, I just want her to stop.
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
With Sash (see Clares post above) we basically just try to tire her out. If she's asleep, she's not scratching. So we try to make sure she's always either "doing something" (eating, walking, training, food puzzles etc), or sleeping. With a dog that loves to sleep as much as Sash does this is pretty easy.
I'm now fairly sure Sashas allergies are contact/grass/pollen etc allergies, which is what the vet found doing the blood tests. But feeding raw has helped. I started off by excluding chicken etc but now I don't really exclude anything since it doesn't make much difference to her. She's doing miles better though.
We used Dermacton cream on the worst areas which did wonders for hair growth, although I'm not convinced it has much benefit for stopping the itch. http://www.aromesse.com/skin-problem/pe ... anine.html
I'm now fairly sure Sashas allergies are contact/grass/pollen etc allergies, which is what the vet found doing the blood tests. But feeding raw has helped. I started off by excluding chicken etc but now I don't really exclude anything since it doesn't make much difference to her. She's doing miles better though.
We used Dermacton cream on the worst areas which did wonders for hair growth, although I'm not convinced it has much benefit for stopping the itch. http://www.aromesse.com/skin-problem/pe ... anine.html
My Blog: www.terriertreks.wordpress.com/
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
IF this is a response to stress verse an allergy, this plan might work as part of an over all plan to break a habit/coping mechanism. Unless you are absolutely sure the scratching is due to stress/anxiety and the source of the stress and anxiety is gone, this is a loosing plan. your setting you and your dog up for failure. Because IF the cause is medical, the itch will still be there and it would be cruel (in the context of this plan) to try and stop a dog from itching if there is an actual itch.bullyhc wrote: My main thing at the moment is to try and enforce the no scratching. Don't scratch, get a treat. I know it's not that simple, but it is something I would like to try. Any suggestions on how to do that, because I have no clue. I don't want to confuse her, I just want her to stop.
At this point I would seriously take a step back and start over. I know you said you have tried some things in the past to figure out is it food, or what. But sometimes you do have to stop, step back, take a breath and start from the beginning because something might have been missed or you might have new information or you didn't give something you have already tried a long enough time to work etc.
If this was my dog, I would start over with "is it food", emma gives some good advice for pursuing this. I would give some thought to taking my dog to a vet that specializes in allergies. Emma mentions that chicken and beef are often sources of allergic reactions to meat. But things like corn, wheat, some grains, preservatives and other ingredients in commercial food can also be sources of issues.
I would also being looking for sources of stress/anxiety as well just to cover my bases. As stress/anxiety can lead to extreme behavior. There really is still too many unknowns right now to start with a training plan to address the scratching.
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
OK so I have started her on the raw food diet today, kangaroo, which smells awful but she loves it. Not looking forward to roo farts 
We are still pursuing the allergy thing, I have a diary of all the things we have tried, when she had it, for how long and their effects/side effects, daily habits etc, something that the specialist has asked for. She is on a waiting list, and has been for some time now, but we will get in to see him in April. Not bad, as we booked it in June. I hate waiting.
I am having trouble keeping her occupied, as she has lost interest in everything other than walks, food and the car. I can only walk her and drive her around for so long, and long hot walks strangely don't tire her out. We used to take her to the beach and the river for a swim, but her skin always looked way more aggravated afterwards so we stopped. I am in the midst of teaching her how to use the treadmill.
I don't mean to sound rude, so please don't take it that way, I'm just really frustrated by her lack of improvement. We've tried so many thing so many times, each new vet starts us over again, so far she's been through 4. And I know she's itchy, I can see it on her, poor bugger. The thing in my head is she's done it cause she's bored/anxious/doesn't know what else to do, and it's been compounded by medical problems like infections and the like. And probably an allergy (or two) as well, but with all the medications she's on, shouldn't I see at least a small improvement? The vet told me that with the Atopica, it works by blocking the receptors in her brain, so she doesn't know she's itchy. But she scratches and licks and rubs and chews like she's covered in mosquito bites (it's not mosquito season yet, not looking forward to that either). We use a bunch of stuff for mosquitos on her, but just not at the minute as it isn't warm or wet enough for them yet.
When you have mozzie bites, you know you're itchy but you choose not to scratch because you know you shouldn't. That's what I'm going for with training, not to stop her meds, but to see some improvement. I know it sounds nuts, and it's a human trait, but I do think it's going to help in the long run.
Seriously though, thank you all for listening, I've had better suggestions (and explanations) from you guys than anywhere else, including the vets. Much love
We are still pursuing the allergy thing, I have a diary of all the things we have tried, when she had it, for how long and their effects/side effects, daily habits etc, something that the specialist has asked for. She is on a waiting list, and has been for some time now, but we will get in to see him in April. Not bad, as we booked it in June. I hate waiting.
I am having trouble keeping her occupied, as she has lost interest in everything other than walks, food and the car. I can only walk her and drive her around for so long, and long hot walks strangely don't tire her out. We used to take her to the beach and the river for a swim, but her skin always looked way more aggravated afterwards so we stopped. I am in the midst of teaching her how to use the treadmill.
I don't mean to sound rude, so please don't take it that way, I'm just really frustrated by her lack of improvement. We've tried so many thing so many times, each new vet starts us over again, so far she's been through 4. And I know she's itchy, I can see it on her, poor bugger. The thing in my head is she's done it cause she's bored/anxious/doesn't know what else to do, and it's been compounded by medical problems like infections and the like. And probably an allergy (or two) as well, but with all the medications she's on, shouldn't I see at least a small improvement? The vet told me that with the Atopica, it works by blocking the receptors in her brain, so she doesn't know she's itchy. But she scratches and licks and rubs and chews like she's covered in mosquito bites (it's not mosquito season yet, not looking forward to that either). We use a bunch of stuff for mosquitos on her, but just not at the minute as it isn't warm or wet enough for them yet.
When you have mozzie bites, you know you're itchy but you choose not to scratch because you know you shouldn't. That's what I'm going for with training, not to stop her meds, but to see some improvement. I know it sounds nuts, and it's a human trait, but I do think it's going to help in the long run.
Seriously though, thank you all for listening, I've had better suggestions (and explanations) from you guys than anywhere else, including the vets. Much love
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
I can hear the frustration, and I can completely understand it.
prior to putting my dog on a raw food diet (which was driven by a need to solve a medical issue) he was GASSY...silent and DEADLY. after making the transition to raw he has any gas. So you might be surprised long term.
something else I am hearing in your comments is a worry that the root cause isn't medical as in "she has an infection that isn't clearing up that is causing her to itch". rather if I am understanding you, you are wondering if the root cause was something else that caused her to start scratching/itching that then led to the medical issues. If so, I have actually been thinking about this angle since first reading your opening post.
The thing that jumped out at me was your comment about the Staffy pup and that it was during the time when you had this pup that your dog started the itching/scratching.
It might be worth looking into seeing if you have any actual behaviorist or vet behaviorists to consult with. IF (BIG, BIG IF) the root cause is from back when you had the staffy pup and is due to stress/anxiety, someone who looks at things from a behavior/coping/stress/anxiety angle might (or might not, but you don't have a lot to loose at this point) be helpful. The person that will be right for you is one that won't give you a bunch of BS about needing to be a strong leader and suggest things like "nothing in life is free" programs as a "solution". These things actually do not help with stress/anxiety issues and could make things worse.
regardless of what is causing this, I absolutely believe getting your dog on a good diet is a top priority, which you sound like your doing. I also think the suggestion regarding probiotics is a good one. If you need a book to assist you with diet, I highly recommend "give your dog a bone" http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN138
prior to putting my dog on a raw food diet (which was driven by a need to solve a medical issue) he was GASSY...silent and DEADLY. after making the transition to raw he has any gas. So you might be surprised long term.
something else I am hearing in your comments is a worry that the root cause isn't medical as in "she has an infection that isn't clearing up that is causing her to itch". rather if I am understanding you, you are wondering if the root cause was something else that caused her to start scratching/itching that then led to the medical issues. If so, I have actually been thinking about this angle since first reading your opening post.
The thing that jumped out at me was your comment about the Staffy pup and that it was during the time when you had this pup that your dog started the itching/scratching.
It might be worth looking into seeing if you have any actual behaviorist or vet behaviorists to consult with. IF (BIG, BIG IF) the root cause is from back when you had the staffy pup and is due to stress/anxiety, someone who looks at things from a behavior/coping/stress/anxiety angle might (or might not, but you don't have a lot to loose at this point) be helpful. The person that will be right for you is one that won't give you a bunch of BS about needing to be a strong leader and suggest things like "nothing in life is free" programs as a "solution". These things actually do not help with stress/anxiety issues and could make things worse.
regardless of what is causing this, I absolutely believe getting your dog on a good diet is a top priority, which you sound like your doing. I also think the suggestion regarding probiotics is a good one. If you need a book to assist you with diet, I highly recommend "give your dog a bone" http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DN138
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
I appreciate that you have gone through multiple veterinary treatments, but have you had skin scrapes taken? Reason I ask is that demodex is a classic stress response, and it seems likely that the time with the other dog triggered this. All dogs have demodex mites, us too, but the condition doesn't present until there is either extreme stress or a suppressed immune system. Your dog checks on both counts.
I suspect there is a physical AND an emotional reason for this.
I suspect there is a physical AND an emotional reason for this.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
OMG, she is the gassiest dog I've ever met in my life! Really thick, gagging ones, so fingers crossed! Never really thought much of it, as bad gas kinda runs in the family lol
I do think she is a highly allergic dog, as everyone keeps telling me, but I also think that the constant scratching is a coping mechanism as well, much like people who chew their fingernails. I'm so beyond happy to hear someone finally agreeing with me! So far, this angle has been completely dismissed by all the so-called professionals we have seen, but I've known some downright neurotic dogs in my time, so I knew in my heart that it was possible.
I have a meeting with a "therapist" on Monday, so hopefully she will be a good fit. I don't think the poor lady really knows what she's let herself in for, I set up a facebook page with photos and a brief rundown of her issues (the dog, not the trainer lol), and she found me through that. Don't really know what I need to be looking for though, and my options in my neck of the woods are extremely limited, but I did stress the self mutilation angle. Can't hurt to try I guess.
Poor little Lily is a pin cushion, she's had multiple scrapings, biopsies and blood tests, all of which came up negative. For what, I can't exactly remember, there has been so many of them, it's really easy to lose track if I don't write it down straight away. The last scrapings were for dermodex mites, roughly 5 weeks ago. She also had blood tests at that time, but I can't remember what for. Sorry I'm a bit scattered, it's very late at night right now and my brain is not working properly
BTW thank you for the book suggestion, just purchased one from ebay, looks interesting!
I do think she is a highly allergic dog, as everyone keeps telling me, but I also think that the constant scratching is a coping mechanism as well, much like people who chew their fingernails. I'm so beyond happy to hear someone finally agreeing with me! So far, this angle has been completely dismissed by all the so-called professionals we have seen, but I've known some downright neurotic dogs in my time, so I knew in my heart that it was possible.
I have a meeting with a "therapist" on Monday, so hopefully she will be a good fit. I don't think the poor lady really knows what she's let herself in for, I set up a facebook page with photos and a brief rundown of her issues (the dog, not the trainer lol), and she found me through that. Don't really know what I need to be looking for though, and my options in my neck of the woods are extremely limited, but I did stress the self mutilation angle. Can't hurt to try I guess.
Poor little Lily is a pin cushion, she's had multiple scrapings, biopsies and blood tests, all of which came up negative. For what, I can't exactly remember, there has been so many of them, it's really easy to lose track if I don't write it down straight away. The last scrapings were for dermodex mites, roughly 5 weeks ago. She also had blood tests at that time, but I can't remember what for. Sorry I'm a bit scattered, it's very late at night right now and my brain is not working properly
BTW thank you for the book suggestion, just purchased one from ebay, looks interesting!
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
Trying to upload some pics for you so you can see what I'm dealing with, but I'm still very new to this forum so bear with me. If all else fails, I have a facebook page "Help Lily get on Bondi Vet"
It's a very popular vet TV show here in Australia, using it was just a cunning ruse to get people to look at her and get some different opinions.
http://www.facebook.com/HelpLilyToGetOnBondiVet
It's a very popular vet TV show here in Australia, using it was just a cunning ruse to get people to look at her and get some different opinions.
http://www.facebook.com/HelpLilyToGetOnBondiVet
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
OK didn't work. Oops. The link is good though.
Re: Self mutilation? HELP!!
Like many here my dog started out a stress case/wreck. While he didn't self mutilate, he was still a stress case. I have spent the last 3 years reading/studying and asking questions of people who are experts in fearful/stressed out dogs. Your dog very well may have allergies. BUT the fact that all this seems to crop up around the time you had your staffy and from what you share about your staffy the stress/coping side of things in my opinion HAS to be considered. When your stress levels get too high it affects your bodies ability to function correctly. The longer the stress is experienced, the more "side affects" can crop up. your dogs ability to deal with allergies for example can be affected.
So, it is entirely possible that the sequence of things is...healthy dog with allergies but able to deal with them just find so not noticeable....introduce new dog, turns out to be VERY stressful...stress continues for "too long" and bodies immune system is compromised.....allergies and other health issues spiral out of control.
It's just a possible scenario that I agree needs to be considered. and even IF (BIG IF) I am right, you still have to address the physical side of things. BUT you would also HAVE to make sure your dog isn't under any stress right now either. This would mean if your dog has any level of difficulty with dogs, no other dogs for a while come near. Or maybe it is people that stress him, so you avoid people etc. AND any behavior modification or training would also need to be force free, fear free, stress free as possible to help with healing. once the dog is healed and healthy, THEN you could go about helping your dog learn to deal with stress. Just like you wouldn't train to run a marathon with a broken leg, you would health the leg and get healthy and then train for the marathon starting off with the smallest distance you can safely run. Same idea for your dog. Again, IF my thoughts are on track with what is going one with your dog.
To be honest, a little concerned that you were contacted verse you sought out this person. But nothing to loose by at least listening to what they have to say. here is a good guide for how to choose a book/training class/trainer for your dog. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6484
Take notes, ask questions and if something doesn't feel right listen to your "inner voice" and feel free to bounce this person's ideas/advice etc off us. Don't let any feeling of "desperation" clouded your judgment as to if this person is the right one for your dog.
So, it is entirely possible that the sequence of things is...healthy dog with allergies but able to deal with them just find so not noticeable....introduce new dog, turns out to be VERY stressful...stress continues for "too long" and bodies immune system is compromised.....allergies and other health issues spiral out of control.
It's just a possible scenario that I agree needs to be considered. and even IF (BIG IF) I am right, you still have to address the physical side of things. BUT you would also HAVE to make sure your dog isn't under any stress right now either. This would mean if your dog has any level of difficulty with dogs, no other dogs for a while come near. Or maybe it is people that stress him, so you avoid people etc. AND any behavior modification or training would also need to be force free, fear free, stress free as possible to help with healing. once the dog is healed and healthy, THEN you could go about helping your dog learn to deal with stress. Just like you wouldn't train to run a marathon with a broken leg, you would health the leg and get healthy and then train for the marathon starting off with the smallest distance you can safely run. Same idea for your dog. Again, IF my thoughts are on track with what is going one with your dog.
To be honest, a little concerned that you were contacted verse you sought out this person. But nothing to loose by at least listening to what they have to say. here is a good guide for how to choose a book/training class/trainer for your dog. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6484
Take notes, ask questions and if something doesn't feel right listen to your "inner voice" and feel free to bounce this person's ideas/advice etc off us. Don't let any feeling of "desperation" clouded your judgment as to if this person is the right one for your dog.
