Agressive, fighting puppies

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Sw4y
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Agressive, fighting puppies

Post by Sw4y » Tue May 20, 2008 6:42 am

Ok, im pretty desperate now and i really need some help.

I have two puppies both are bitches one is an australian and one is a british bulldog they are very close in age approx 6 months of age. I got Tinsley (aussie) in January and Millicent (British) at the end of february after my previous british bulldog unexpectedly passed away.

Anyway - first few months we had no problem and probably about 1 month ago they had a pretty serious fight over some vomit we thought it was a one off but it happened again, so we started to feed them seperately have had to start feeding them seperately because since then they have started fighting over anything and now they just seem to fight for no reason at all. It is getting very very serious, they are hurting each other and scaring me ALOT!

Millie gaurds her food very much and seems to be the one that starts these "brawls". She is not aggressive towards me when she is eating or if i take her food from her when she is eating.

I have no idea what to do... giving away one of the dogs is not an option, i love them too much to do that.

This has to work.
Any help much appreciated!

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Nettle
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Post by Nettle » Tue May 20, 2008 9:09 am

There are two ways for this to work, and I don't suppose you'll like either of them.

One is to rehome one *****. Regardless of how much you love them both, this is for the dog's welfare.

The other is to plan your house, yard and life so that they never meet.

***** fights can result in fatalities. Once bitches have started to fight, nothing will stop them, and they will take the tiniest opportunity to pitch into each other. Omce bitches have started to fight, there is no putting it 'right'.

Your bitches are pretty near equal in age, size and status. This is why they fight. However you organise their lives, be aware next time you want two dogs together that they need to be different in age, size and status if they are to get on with each other.

Two bitches together can work, but only with a few very mellow individuals, and certainly not once they have started to fight.

I am sorry this is so difficult for you, and I would love to magic up an easier solution, but there isn't one.

agilitypassion92
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Post by agilitypassion92 » Tue May 20, 2008 5:09 pm

Nettle is extremely right i hope it doesnt sound rude but you made one of the biggest mistakes getting two bitches at of same age both can be not aggressive breeds but very stubborn and hard to handle especially when they put their minds to it...the only option is probably to rehome one or make sure they are never really around eachother safety is a must from now on you cannot trust them alone together because you never know when things could happen if you do decide to rehome i would rehome the british since you say she is the one who possibly starts much of the fights and that may be because she is a dog that would like to live in a home were she is the only dog i very much do hope that it does not have to come to that but odds are that it will good luck with them both and who knows maybe a great friend can take one so that you can still see one while enjoying your life not having to worry if a bloody battle will break out

Sw4y
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Post by Sw4y » Tue May 20, 2008 5:56 pm

OH NO! this is terrible... i have never heard of having problems with two female dogs before... but as you said they werent of the same size and stature.
Ive never had to rehome a dog before and i feel like i would be doing a diservice to them in doing so but i do not want to put either of them in danger.
I think i would rather have one of them as an "indoor" dog and one as an "outdoor" dog then rehoming. Its an inconvenient option but my fiance is very attached to one and i the other....

:?

agilitypassion92
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Post by agilitypassion92 » Tue May 20, 2008 7:20 pm

then maybe try that if you feel it would be best you might also want to try to be fair to both dogs and maybe switch off..though im not sure myself if that would be the best idea..you could switch giving them turns outside an inside...imagine being left outside while the other person was indoors with the owners... id feel very sad myself maybe it will work out somehow just dont worry =)

Sw4y
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Post by Sw4y » Tue May 20, 2008 7:44 pm

Oh of course, i would rotate them equally and they would both sleep inside, just in different areas of the house. I love my girls so much im so wretched over this!
Ive called some dog trainers to try and get someone over asap, if we could nip this problem in the bud before it gets too entrentched maybe we can all have a happy existence.

agilitypassion92
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Post by agilitypassion92 » Tue May 20, 2008 7:56 pm

just a question though are they both spayed? im not saying this would fix the issue entirely but my best guess to at least maybe make sure that there isnt as much competition is to fix both =) i really wish i could do something to help more...but we can think of something and try and work it out best for you and both girls

Sw4y
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Post by Sw4y » Tue May 20, 2008 8:49 pm

thankyou so much for your kind replies. Neither of them are spayed, our vet told us they would have to be at least 6 months before they could be spayed.
Im going to book the British in to be spayed right away.

agilitypassion92
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Post by agilitypassion92 » Tue May 20, 2008 9:34 pm

thats a good idea and once the aussie is old enough id take care of that to =) im sure that will help reduce the stress level and estrogen between them haha keep me posted and let me know how it goes and if theres anything else that we can think of let me know!

Sw4y
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Post by Sw4y » Tue May 20, 2008 10:39 pm

I bought 2 soft muzzels to put on them in the mean time so they cant injure each other in the mean time till this is sorted out. It just doesnt seem fair to give up on either of these puppies.

emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth » Tue May 20, 2008 11:58 pm

I agree with Nettle I am afraid - two bitches can be done.. my two are both sighthounds, but one is 13 years old, the other is 9 months. I personally wouldnt have two bitches much closer in age than that!

Before you go neutering anyone.... please do bear in mind it could WELL make things worse. Im unconvinced that neutering even before an aggression problem has appeared will stop a ***** becoming aggressive (and there is research to show that its likely to make them aggressive), and I am EXTREMELY convinced that neutering after they have already learned to behave this way with one another WILL make things worse.

Secondly - Soft muzzles you CANNOT leave on a dog any length of time. They are suitable ONLY for such things as a quick visit in the vets office, clipping claws etc. They work by restricting the dogs ability to open his/her mouth, and that means they cannot effectively pant or drink.

With most breeds thats pretty dangerous, with Bulldogs it is lethal.

Rigid muzzles you can leave on a dog, however I would not leave one on an unsupervised dog, they can and will get caught up on things.

You absolutely cannot leave the two of them together even semi supervised with rigid muzzles on... that wont stop them fighting and it wont stop them hurting one another.

By all means, try keeping them entirely seperate, but I am very much afraid that, as hard as you try, one of them or even both, will suffer due to the lack of time you will have, and the seperation from you that they must go through.

Whilst it is horrible to consider rehoming a dog you love, it is also selfish to keep a dog in a less than ideal situation.. either of your dogs could well be extremely happy in a new home. It is very hard to think and accept that our dogs could be happy living with someone else, but part of what makes a good dog owner an EXCELLENT dog owner, is knowing when to say 'enough... I cannot do the best, someone else perhaps can'.

IF you do go down the route of rehoming one of these two, can I strongly suggest you get her trained as well as is possible and arrange to have her spayed if she is old enough. This way you will cut out the risk of someone offering to rehome her with an eye to making money from breeding her (and more likely to find a good home who then doesnt have the expense of spaying her).

If I were in the same situation, I would not hesitate to rehome one of the bitches - I have lived with two bitches who hated one anothers guts and it was the most tense and uncomfortable time, and miserable for both dogs, I have ever had.

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Nettle
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Post by Nettle » Wed May 21, 2008 2:51 am

The neutering point Emmabeth made is very important. In most of the cases I have come across where one ***** actually killed the other, the problems escalated once the bitches had been neutered.

Sw4y
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Post by Sw4y » Wed May 21, 2008 8:11 pm

thanks for the further information.
I am experienced with caring for a bulldog and know that they need to be able to pant and drink frequently so i wouldnt consider leaving them with muzzles on for extended periods of time or without supervision.

this situation is making me heartsick.... i really want to make this work but it seems there is conflicting advice and opinions at every turn.

agilitypassion92
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Post by agilitypassion92 » Thu May 22, 2008 4:38 pm

believe it or not do what you think in your heart and mind is right you are the owner of these dogs you know them first hand and it is last but not least your choice in the end others are simply here to voice their opinion and offer advice but we cannot force you to make any certain choice its always good to get others opinions but really make the choice that you think is best because most likely we are miles away from you and cant do much but tell you how we see it good luck making your decision and remember that its ok with whatever you decide your dogs and your choice =)

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