Apologies for this being so long.
For about four/five years now, I've had a black Labrador Pitbull mix(we're assuming he's part pitbull since he kind of looks like one). When we had gotten him, we already had three other dogs, three chihuahuas. There was never any issues between the three and him because I guess Rex(lab mix's name) already knew he was going to end up being the dominant one since he's the largest. I didn't like him at first because of the fact I had no idea how to train a large dog(he the first we've had in YEARS.) and he was constantly destroying things. Ripping plants out of their roots, tearing apart the water bowl, trying to "fight"(it was more playful fighting) with the chihuahuas. It was really difficult for me to even love him because I have this issue with death, and I had lost a dog a couple years ago I really adored, and she adored me, really suddenly. I guess she had randomly gotten sick, she died, and I was too afraid to deal with the pain of losing another pet.
Now, last year, my brother and his ex girlfriend ended up bringing in a pure Red-Nose Pitbull from someone who apparently was moving and couldn't bring the dog along with them. The dog was only two months old and I automatically got attached to it. I don't know what it was, but I just fell in love with that poor thing. However, I knew I couldn't get so attached the dog wasn't mine, and belonged to my brother and his ex girlfriend. My brother named him Boomer and we kept him here at our house. Now, my brother and his ex had this thing where they would bring in dogs that "belonged" to them but would drop them in my room while they went to his room and made out. That was the case with Boomer and his ex's dog too. I became responsible for feeding, bathing, giving water, taking the dog out to go to the bathroom. I didn't like it but I figured I had no other choice. Because of this, the dog immediately saw me as his mother, and I am still his mother to this day. I am the owner/mother of Boomer, not my brother nor his ex.
After it seemed like the dog would have to stay at our house permanently my mom said she didn't want the dog staying inside, so we had to train Rex to be used to Boomer(who was still a puppy). Rex must have known that Boomer was going to be a large dog so he became very aggressive towards him and whenever we would let him near Boomer while outside, he'd attack him. Eventually, Rex did get used to him and left Boomer outside in the backyard with him.
I guess Boomer thought Rex was his dad or his brother because eventually those two got pretty attached to one another. It was to the point where if I took Rex out for a walk, Boomer would be crying and wailing the entire time. And if I took Boomer out, Rex would crying and probably slam himself against the gate as if a way to get through to Boomer. This wasn't much of a problem, but I'm sure it might have something to be with Separation Anxiety or something.
But anyway, now two days ago, my brother had taken out this stuffed dog that his ex had given him. He didn't want it anymore and I guess he wanted the dogs to tear it apart. The dogs just sniffed it, but then my brother cut a hole in it and shoved food in it. Rex knew what to do and eventually got the food. Later that day, I had gone out to bring in their food and I decided to show Boomer I had some kibbles in my hand and shoved it into that hole. Boomer is trained so he automatically sat down and waited for me to give it to him. I took a kibble out, showed it him and put it back in. He eventually realized he was supposed to get it himself and eventually shoved his nose into the hole and started eating. However, Rex saw this and approached Boomer and started growling at him. Before, Boomer would back off and whine whenever Rex would growl at him over something. Occasionally he would even hide behind me. This time, Boomer did not back off and Rex snapped at him. They ended up actually fighting. Like actual fighting. I had no idea what to do because that was the first time I saw them fight. I yelled for my brothers, one ran out and quickly grabbed a stick, and the dogs separated. Obviously it was over food so we just left the toy alone and expected the dogs to eventually tear it apart.
The next day, yesterday, I had gotten up to feed the dogs and sometimes Boomer would either follow me to the door or just stay wherever he was and just watch me leave. Yesterday he decided to run ahead of me to the door. The stuffed dog was just on the floor and Boomer had walked by it when Rex suddenly charged forward and stood between Boomer and the toy. I quickly knew they'd end up fighting. I grabbed Boomer's collar and smacked Rex on the nose several times to get him to back off. When he wouldn't, I decided I would move between them and push them away from one another. However, as soon as I had let go of Boomer's collar, Boomer snapped and they fought again. I had gotten them by their necks and ripped them apart from one another, but I ended up falling back and letting them go by accident. They attacked again and that's when I grabbed a stick and they broke off. I ended up separating them from each other for about an hour and I had told my brother to throw away the stuffed dog, since this time it was over that. My mom threatened to put them down if they fought one more time.
Today, I had gone out to feed them again and this time, I felt like this tension between those two. Yesterday throughout the day, there really wasn't one but today just felt odd. Rex got near me and I noticed Boomer suddenly get defensive and just watch him. I quickly pushed Boomer away and he followed me. Now, when I was going to come back inside, Boomer had been waiting for me at the door. When I was walking towards it, he came up to me and I just started petting him. I wasn't hearing Rex eating so I turned towards the garage and just said, "What? What's going on?" to him. He came running towards me and came to my opposite side. I started petting him and I noticed Boomer seemed...jealous? I don't know. It looked like he was jealous but also afraid of Rex. So to just make him feel better, I started petting the both of them at once. But then again, I noticed the two staring each other down so I quickly pushed them away and went to the door. Boomer quickly came in front of me and kept looking at Rex then at the door, then back at Rex.
I have no idea what to make of this. I'm afraid they're going to start fighting over me now, and I don't want that. There is no way in hell I'm giving those two up. I'm wondering if it's just out of jealousy or if it's dominance issues? I kind of want to talk to a vet about this, but we have absolutely no money so I can't take them to one. It was even a miracle we were able to get them neutered last year. I know a lot about dogs, but this is the first time owning two large dogs that I can train and I have no idea how to do that without them snapping at each other. I don't even know what to do. First time I even owned a large dog was when I was like 4 or 5. So it wasn't my responsibility and now I don't know what to do.
Rex has always been aggressive towards other dogs he didn't know. This is the first time he's really fought with one he does know so I'm rather worried about this. Before if Boomer wanted a toy from him, or wanted to eat food from the same bowl and if Rex growled, Boomer would step away, cry and whine, and turn towards me to help him. But now it seems like he's really starting to fight back. I've already been given an article on Canine Rivalry and when I read it, it made sense. It said that one possibility might just be that Boomer is reaching adulthood(he's about 16 months and adulthood is around 18 months to 2.5 years) or simply that Rex is getting too old(which that might not be it since Rex is only four years old) and Boomer wants to be the dominant one. The problem is that the article didn't really give me an answer on how to fix this problem. Earlier in the evening, I saw Boomer practically stalking Rex, but I quickly reacted before it led to some fight or Rex snapping at Boomer. I ended up trying to train them but I'm afraid just training them tricks [obviously] won't help.
Thank you in advance to any response I might get.
Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
Ok, wow, theres a lot of information there.. buuuuuuut we need some more information please!
You can just copy and paste this into your reply, and then answer the questions in there if thats easier.
Who lives in your household, what are their ages (you can put 'teenager', child, adult if people don't want their real ages down):
List all the dogs in the house, and their ages and genders:
Which people handle which dogs and what do they do, for example 'Joe walks Buster, but never feeds him' that kind of information.
Where do all the dogs live - ie, indoors, outdoors.
List each dogs daily exercise and training:
How much time does each dog spend one-to-one with a human:
What are the dogs fed, and how often are they fed:
How long does each dog spend without any human company:
The answers to these will really help us to help you.
You can just copy and paste this into your reply, and then answer the questions in there if thats easier.
Who lives in your household, what are their ages (you can put 'teenager', child, adult if people don't want their real ages down):
List all the dogs in the house, and their ages and genders:
Which people handle which dogs and what do they do, for example 'Joe walks Buster, but never feeds him' that kind of information.
Where do all the dogs live - ie, indoors, outdoors.
List each dogs daily exercise and training:
How much time does each dog spend one-to-one with a human:
What are the dogs fed, and how often are they fed:
How long does each dog spend without any human company:
The answers to these will really help us to help you.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
My parents(Mother is 52, Father is 58), my brothers(one's 25, the other is 22), and me(I'm 20.)emmabeth wrote:Who lives in your household, what are their ages (you can put 'teenager', child, adult if people don't want their real ages down):
Chihuahua - Rocky, Male, approximately...11 or 12 years old.List all the dogs in the house, and their ages and genders:
Labrador Pitbull Mix - Rex, Male, 4 years old.
Red-Nose Pitbull - Boomer, Male, possibly around 16 or 17 months old. I'm not quite sure.
My parents are usually the ones in charge of giving the dogs food if I'm not around. My brothers honestly do nothing for them. If I ask them to give them water and food either because I'm feeling sick or if I'm going out and I don't have the time, they won't do it. My 22 year old brother is usually the one in charge of buying them food though whenever we're running out so I guess that's something. I am in charge of bathing them, feeding them, making sure they're doing okay, etc. I do everything for the dogs.Which people handle which dogs and what do they do, for example 'Joe walks Buster, but never feeds him' that kind of information.
All three of them live in the backyard.Where do all the dogs live - ie, indoors, outdoors.
Rocky - he's at a somewhat elderly age so he doesn't really do much. He just eats and sleeps pretty much. He's not fat, which is surprising with how much he eats.List each dogs daily exercise and training:
Rex and Boomer - Due to the fact I'm not someone who doesn't have a lot of strength, it's difficult for me to take them out for walks because of this. Every once in a while I will take them out, but eventually it gets too difficult because they're tugging me forward or they see a dog and they go crazy. Training though, Rex doesn't know much but I'm teaching him how to sit and lay at the moment. Boomer, he knows how to stay, come, sit, and lay.
I'm the one that gives them the most attention. Every other day though, my dad might go out and spend some time with the dogs. It's just a couple of minutes though. My mom will pet them every once in a while when she's not so afraid of them. Since they jump, she's afraid of that so it's rare when I see her not freak out just because Boomer or Rex nudged their nose against her hand or something.How much time does each dog spend one-to-one with a human:
Regular dog food, daily. From when I wake up(which could depend from 9am to 11am) all the way to the evening. As soon as it's 7pm, I bring the food back inside.What are the dogs fed, and how often are they fed:
Uh, it really depends. If I'm sick or not home, it can be from the morning all the way to whenever I get home. However, if I am home, it varies. I might go out to check something or my brothers might go out to exercise and stuff. It's never an entire a day. At most, it can be from an hour or maybe two hours from whenever someone might go out.How long does each dog spend without any human company:
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
What brand of dog food? And am I reading correctly that they are free fed (food down all the time)?
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
Ok, I am going to preface what I say, with this: I understand that this is not your house, and that a lot of things are out of your control.
Right - effectively, what you have here are three feral dogs who live in your yard. You provide them food and some shelter, er and thats basically it.
What you WANT, is three pet dogs who are keen to listen to you, eager to work with you and please you, are obedient, pleasant to be around and all round good dog buddies to have.
To get from where you are, to what you want this is what you would have to do:
Bring the dogs indoors for a large portion of the day, OR alternatively, spend a large portion of the day outside with them - by that I mean hours and hours, every day.
Walk all the dogs appropriate for their needs - Rocky isn't actually that old for a Chi and my own 12 year old dog (also called Rocky, but not a Chi
) walked/ran 6 miles yesterday and was still begging me for more.. it is not true that old dogs automatically need or want less purely due to their age.
This means that the two big guys need a couple of hours exercise a day, each.
All three dogs need to spend some time each day training and/or working with you using their brains. That could be clicker training, it could be working on impulse control (like, 'wait whilst i throw this, then you can have THAT').
On top of THAT all three dogs need some fun and games too.
The reason they are fighting now is because they are bored witless - there is very little of any value in their lives at all, they don't need to use their brains at all either.
They pull on the leash and they jump up at people because they are bored and you haven't taught them what they should do.
So into that boring environment and long days where next to nothing happens, you introduce a toy that has food fall out of it - WOW.. that is something worth guarding, guarding it is something to DO... and now you have a big problem!
Im going to guess that you won't be able to have them in the house, and that you probably have commitments that mean you don't have time to spend that much time outdoors with them - therefore I cannot promise you that you can turn these two big guys into nice, calm, well mannered pet dogs.
However, I can tell you what you can TRY and hopefully when your brothers and your parents see the differences you ARE making, they will want to help as well.
First of all, training - put two dogs away somewhere secure, work with one dog at a time. Get a kitchen timer and just do five minutes per dog, five minutes is plenty long enough to start with for both you AND them.
Personally I would use clicker training and so the first sessions with each dog, would be to condition them to understand the clicker - click = treat is coming. So all you do is sit in the yard with the dog you are working with, and you click the clicker and give him a tiny treat, click and treat, click and treat etc until he hears 'click' and his face says to you 'woo, wheres the treat?' .. If you don't have a clicker, use a clicky pen or a jar lid with the security dent in it. For treats, use tiny slivers of hot dog sausage, tiny pieces of hard cheese - it has to be tiny and VERY tasty.
Once all the dogs understand that the click is a good thing, it means they are about to get a treat, then you can use it to 'capture' a behaviour you like. Think of it like a camera, you would click just as the picture you want happens - so if you wanted a picture of a dog stood on his back legs, you'd 'click' the camera the second the dog was up on his back legs, not before, not after. The exact same applies iwth the clicker - you want a sit, so you click AS the dogs butt hits the ground.
The game I would start with is 101 things to do with a box as this teaches a dog to offer you behaviours and that everything he tries is worth trying - so you put down a cardboard box and he will sniff it or look at it - click and reward that, even if he just rolled his eyes in its direction. If he steps closer to it, touches it, nudges it, paws it... click and reward all these things.
For now I would click any and every interaction wtih the box (btw, it can be a blanket or mat or any item really, a box is just pretty easy) for the first few sessions so that the dogs get the idea its good and fun to TRY new stuff.
The other game I would play with each dog is 'its yer choice' - this is an impulse control game and there is a thread in the articles section about it and a link to a video on youtube. What it does in the early stages is teach a dog NOT to mug you for food rewards but to back up and wait - its done without loads of commands or words and theres no telling off or correction. If the dog tries to snatch the food the hand with the food is closed, the SPLIT second the dog looks away from the food, he is rewarded (wtih food from a different hand) - the message quickly sinks in that barging and grabbing fails, sitting or backing off and being calm WORKS.
Theres lots and lots more you can do with these dogs, particularly they need to go for walks. Walk ONE at a time, theres no way you can walk AND train more than one at a time - to try is crazy and will end up with you having an accident or getting frustrated and the dog learning the wrong thing.
To go for a walk you need a pocket full of high value rewards. A 6ft leash and a secure harness on the dog, ideally one that you can clip the leash to the front of, and NOT one that has any parts that tighten under the armpits to stop pulling (these cause pain). If right now all you have is a flat collar and leash then thats ok, but do NOT do the following on a choke, prong/pinch or headcollar, or a harness that tightens up under the arms. (If all you have is prong/pinch or choke collars, go buy a flat collar or a harness and put the choker/pinch collar in the bin!).
Your first lesson with which ever dog you take first is manners and self control, so that means hes gotta sit and do it calmly to have the harness/leash put on. Then hes gotta walk by you around the yard calmly.
Practice this first, you can use your food rewards from time to time to reward him adn keep him interested, but use your voice too, talk to him an dbe interesting. Its also important you hold the leash the right way - it shouldnt be wrapped around your hand for example!
I like my dogs to walk on the left (you may prefer the right, its entirely your choice and if you do, reverse left for right in this example).. So I have my treats in my left pocket. I have the handle end of the lead in my RIGHT hand, and the lead runs across my body to my LEFT hand and then down to the dog.
Now most of the time when I am walking, I do not need my left hand on the leash the whole time, so that hand is free to give rewards (see why the treats are in my left pocket, if they were in my right the dog would probably try to step in front of me to get them!) but its also free to grab the leash if needs be.
If you are walking in an area where the dog needs to be close at heel then you can have the left hand on the leash as well. There SHOULD be some slack, the leash is a safety device it is NOT designed to physically hold your dog in the close heel position so there should NOT be tension on the lead at all.
The knack is to teach your dog that forwards movement (which is rewarding) and rewards, happen when he is besides you - he can have his head level with your knee, or his shoulders, or anywhere in between - but as long as YOU decide where you want him to be and you are consistent with it, thats fine. It is NOT true that a dog in front of you is being dominant or thinks he is your leader, and its not true that a dog pulling things this - what IS true is that often a dog ahead of you is not entirely aware of what YOU are doing, and if he is pulling at best hes giving himself a sore neck and you sore shoulders/back.
So the goal is he walks beside you on a slack leash - he doesn't have to be staring up at you the whole time or touching your leg, just walking nicely on a slack leash, ready for wahteve ryou might say or do next.
The most effective way to teach this is to set off at a brisk march, and the SECOND he gets ahead of where you want him to be (and BEFORE he pulls that leash tight, thats crucial and thats why you need enough slack!), you will let go th eleash with the left hand (keeping hold of it with the right), spin 180 and march the OTHER way, so all of a sudden, he took his attention off you and you are shockingly, six feet away going in the OTHER direction.. wow.. that wasn't what he thought would happen!
If you practice this consistently, and as he gets good you chuck in rewards, randomly, for being beside you, and you chuck in changes of speed/pace, direction, maybe stop suddenly and ask for a sit or a down, suddenly break into a run.... he is going to be SUPER keen to stick BY you, because thats how to get forward movement, and not to dash ahead or pull.
To start with you want to practice this in the yard and then out on the street for just five or ten minutes a ta time - forget GOING anywhere, you will go up and down the street getting yourself dizzy, but thats fine, because this stuff is HARD work for him, its actually ten times harder than dragging you along the roads for half an hour ignoring you!
Once you have been doing all the above stuff, every day, with each dog - for two weeks - review your progress and see how they are behaving now? I'll bet you, its better.
Right - effectively, what you have here are three feral dogs who live in your yard. You provide them food and some shelter, er and thats basically it.
What you WANT, is three pet dogs who are keen to listen to you, eager to work with you and please you, are obedient, pleasant to be around and all round good dog buddies to have.
To get from where you are, to what you want this is what you would have to do:
Bring the dogs indoors for a large portion of the day, OR alternatively, spend a large portion of the day outside with them - by that I mean hours and hours, every day.
Walk all the dogs appropriate for their needs - Rocky isn't actually that old for a Chi and my own 12 year old dog (also called Rocky, but not a Chi
) walked/ran 6 miles yesterday and was still begging me for more.. it is not true that old dogs automatically need or want less purely due to their age.This means that the two big guys need a couple of hours exercise a day, each.
All three dogs need to spend some time each day training and/or working with you using their brains. That could be clicker training, it could be working on impulse control (like, 'wait whilst i throw this, then you can have THAT').
On top of THAT all three dogs need some fun and games too.
The reason they are fighting now is because they are bored witless - there is very little of any value in their lives at all, they don't need to use their brains at all either.
They pull on the leash and they jump up at people because they are bored and you haven't taught them what they should do.
So into that boring environment and long days where next to nothing happens, you introduce a toy that has food fall out of it - WOW.. that is something worth guarding, guarding it is something to DO... and now you have a big problem!
Im going to guess that you won't be able to have them in the house, and that you probably have commitments that mean you don't have time to spend that much time outdoors with them - therefore I cannot promise you that you can turn these two big guys into nice, calm, well mannered pet dogs.
However, I can tell you what you can TRY and hopefully when your brothers and your parents see the differences you ARE making, they will want to help as well.
First of all, training - put two dogs away somewhere secure, work with one dog at a time. Get a kitchen timer and just do five minutes per dog, five minutes is plenty long enough to start with for both you AND them.
Personally I would use clicker training and so the first sessions with each dog, would be to condition them to understand the clicker - click = treat is coming. So all you do is sit in the yard with the dog you are working with, and you click the clicker and give him a tiny treat, click and treat, click and treat etc until he hears 'click' and his face says to you 'woo, wheres the treat?' .. If you don't have a clicker, use a clicky pen or a jar lid with the security dent in it. For treats, use tiny slivers of hot dog sausage, tiny pieces of hard cheese - it has to be tiny and VERY tasty.
Once all the dogs understand that the click is a good thing, it means they are about to get a treat, then you can use it to 'capture' a behaviour you like. Think of it like a camera, you would click just as the picture you want happens - so if you wanted a picture of a dog stood on his back legs, you'd 'click' the camera the second the dog was up on his back legs, not before, not after. The exact same applies iwth the clicker - you want a sit, so you click AS the dogs butt hits the ground.
The game I would start with is 101 things to do with a box as this teaches a dog to offer you behaviours and that everything he tries is worth trying - so you put down a cardboard box and he will sniff it or look at it - click and reward that, even if he just rolled his eyes in its direction. If he steps closer to it, touches it, nudges it, paws it... click and reward all these things.
For now I would click any and every interaction wtih the box (btw, it can be a blanket or mat or any item really, a box is just pretty easy) for the first few sessions so that the dogs get the idea its good and fun to TRY new stuff.
The other game I would play with each dog is 'its yer choice' - this is an impulse control game and there is a thread in the articles section about it and a link to a video on youtube. What it does in the early stages is teach a dog NOT to mug you for food rewards but to back up and wait - its done without loads of commands or words and theres no telling off or correction. If the dog tries to snatch the food the hand with the food is closed, the SPLIT second the dog looks away from the food, he is rewarded (wtih food from a different hand) - the message quickly sinks in that barging and grabbing fails, sitting or backing off and being calm WORKS.
Theres lots and lots more you can do with these dogs, particularly they need to go for walks. Walk ONE at a time, theres no way you can walk AND train more than one at a time - to try is crazy and will end up with you having an accident or getting frustrated and the dog learning the wrong thing.
To go for a walk you need a pocket full of high value rewards. A 6ft leash and a secure harness on the dog, ideally one that you can clip the leash to the front of, and NOT one that has any parts that tighten under the armpits to stop pulling (these cause pain). If right now all you have is a flat collar and leash then thats ok, but do NOT do the following on a choke, prong/pinch or headcollar, or a harness that tightens up under the arms. (If all you have is prong/pinch or choke collars, go buy a flat collar or a harness and put the choker/pinch collar in the bin!).
Your first lesson with which ever dog you take first is manners and self control, so that means hes gotta sit and do it calmly to have the harness/leash put on. Then hes gotta walk by you around the yard calmly.
Practice this first, you can use your food rewards from time to time to reward him adn keep him interested, but use your voice too, talk to him an dbe interesting. Its also important you hold the leash the right way - it shouldnt be wrapped around your hand for example!
I like my dogs to walk on the left (you may prefer the right, its entirely your choice and if you do, reverse left for right in this example).. So I have my treats in my left pocket. I have the handle end of the lead in my RIGHT hand, and the lead runs across my body to my LEFT hand and then down to the dog.
Now most of the time when I am walking, I do not need my left hand on the leash the whole time, so that hand is free to give rewards (see why the treats are in my left pocket, if they were in my right the dog would probably try to step in front of me to get them!) but its also free to grab the leash if needs be.
If you are walking in an area where the dog needs to be close at heel then you can have the left hand on the leash as well. There SHOULD be some slack, the leash is a safety device it is NOT designed to physically hold your dog in the close heel position so there should NOT be tension on the lead at all.
The knack is to teach your dog that forwards movement (which is rewarding) and rewards, happen when he is besides you - he can have his head level with your knee, or his shoulders, or anywhere in between - but as long as YOU decide where you want him to be and you are consistent with it, thats fine. It is NOT true that a dog in front of you is being dominant or thinks he is your leader, and its not true that a dog pulling things this - what IS true is that often a dog ahead of you is not entirely aware of what YOU are doing, and if he is pulling at best hes giving himself a sore neck and you sore shoulders/back.
So the goal is he walks beside you on a slack leash - he doesn't have to be staring up at you the whole time or touching your leg, just walking nicely on a slack leash, ready for wahteve ryou might say or do next.
The most effective way to teach this is to set off at a brisk march, and the SECOND he gets ahead of where you want him to be (and BEFORE he pulls that leash tight, thats crucial and thats why you need enough slack!), you will let go th eleash with the left hand (keeping hold of it with the right), spin 180 and march the OTHER way, so all of a sudden, he took his attention off you and you are shockingly, six feet away going in the OTHER direction.. wow.. that wasn't what he thought would happen!
If you practice this consistently, and as he gets good you chuck in rewards, randomly, for being beside you, and you chuck in changes of speed/pace, direction, maybe stop suddenly and ask for a sit or a down, suddenly break into a run.... he is going to be SUPER keen to stick BY you, because thats how to get forward movement, and not to dash ahead or pull.
To start with you want to practice this in the yard and then out on the street for just five or ten minutes a ta time - forget GOING anywhere, you will go up and down the street getting yourself dizzy, but thats fine, because this stuff is HARD work for him, its actually ten times harder than dragging you along the roads for half an hour ignoring you!
Once you have been doing all the above stuff, every day, with each dog - for two weeks - review your progress and see how they are behaving now? I'll bet you, its better.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
Pedigree. And yes. It's always been like that and we've never had a problem with it.Wes wrote:What brand of dog food? And am I reading correctly that they are free fed (food down all the time)?
Thank you so much. I think this'll work. I cannot bring them inside, but I can separate them in some given way(specifically by shutting two inside the garage while the other is outside with me). Though, by separating them that way, do you think it might cause a problem? Usually whenever we shut the dogs inside the garage it's either because we're having guests over and they're going to be in the backyard, or they did something incredibly bad and they need a time out. So I'm a little worried whether or not by shutting two in the garage will be a good idea or not.emmabeth wrote:Ok, I am going to preface what I say, with this: I understand that this is not your house, and that a lot of things are out of your control.
Right - effectively, what you have here are three feral dogs who live in your yard. You provide them food and some shelter, er and thats basically it.
What you WANT, is three pet dogs who are keen to listen to you, eager to work with you and please you, are obedient, pleasant to be around and all round good dog buddies to have.
To get from where you are, to what you want this is what you would have to do:
Bring the dogs indoors for a large portion of the day, OR alternatively, spend a large portion of the day outside with them - by that I mean hours and hours, every day.
Walk all the dogs appropriate for their needs - Rocky isn't actually that old for a Chi and my own 12 year old dog (also called Rocky, but not a Chi
This means that the two big guys need a couple of hours exercise a day, each.
All three dogs need to spend some time each day training and/or working with you using their brains. That could be clicker training, it could be working on impulse control (like, 'wait whilst i throw this, then you can have THAT').
On top of THAT all three dogs need some fun and games too.
The reason they are fighting now is because they are bored witless - there is very little of any value in their lives at all, they don't need to use their brains at all either.
They pull on the leash and they jump up at people because they are bored and you haven't taught them what they should do.
So into that boring environment and long days where next to nothing happens, you introduce a toy that has food fall out of it - WOW.. that is something worth guarding, guarding it is something to DO... and now you have a big problem!
Im going to guess that you won't be able to have them in the house, and that you probably have commitments that mean you don't have time to spend that much time outdoors with them - therefore I cannot promise you that you can turn these two big guys into nice, calm, well mannered pet dogs.
However, I can tell you what you can TRY and hopefully when your brothers and your parents see the differences you ARE making, they will want to help as well.
First of all, training - put two dogs away somewhere secure, work with one dog at a time. Get a kitchen timer and just do five minutes per dog, five minutes is plenty long enough to start with for both you AND them.
Personally I would use clicker training and so the first sessions with each dog, would be to condition them to understand the clicker - click = treat is coming. So all you do is sit in the yard with the dog you are working with, and you click the clicker and give him a tiny treat, click and treat, click and treat etc until he hears 'click' and his face says to you 'woo, wheres the treat?' .. If you don't have a clicker, use a clicky pen or a jar lid with the security dent in it. For treats, use tiny slivers of hot dog sausage, tiny pieces of hard cheese - it has to be tiny and VERY tasty.
Once all the dogs understand that the click is a good thing, it means they are about to get a treat, then you can use it to 'capture' a behaviour you like. Think of it like a camera, you would click just as the picture you want happens - so if you wanted a picture of a dog stood on his back legs, you'd 'click' the camera the second the dog was up on his back legs, not before, not after. The exact same applies iwth the clicker - you want a sit, so you click AS the dogs butt hits the ground.
The game I would start with is 101 things to do with a box as this teaches a dog to offer you behaviours and that everything he tries is worth trying - so you put down a cardboard box and he will sniff it or look at it - click and reward that, even if he just rolled his eyes in its direction. If he steps closer to it, touches it, nudges it, paws it... click and reward all these things.
For now I would click any and every interaction wtih the box (btw, it can be a blanket or mat or any item really, a box is just pretty easy) for the first few sessions so that the dogs get the idea its good and fun to TRY new stuff.
The other game I would play with each dog is 'its yer choice' - this is an impulse control game and there is a thread in the articles section about it and a link to a video on youtube. What it does in the early stages is teach a dog NOT to mug you for food rewards but to back up and wait - its done without loads of commands or words and theres no telling off or correction. If the dog tries to snatch the food the hand with the food is closed, the SPLIT second the dog looks away from the food, he is rewarded (wtih food from a different hand) - the message quickly sinks in that barging and grabbing fails, sitting or backing off and being calm WORKS.
Theres lots and lots more you can do with these dogs, particularly they need to go for walks. Walk ONE at a time, theres no way you can walk AND train more than one at a time - to try is crazy and will end up with you having an accident or getting frustrated and the dog learning the wrong thing.
To go for a walk you need a pocket full of high value rewards. A 6ft leash and a secure harness on the dog, ideally one that you can clip the leash to the front of, and NOT one that has any parts that tighten under the armpits to stop pulling (these cause pain). If right now all you have is a flat collar and leash then thats ok, but do NOT do the following on a choke, prong/pinch or headcollar, or a harness that tightens up under the arms. (If all you have is prong/pinch or choke collars, go buy a flat collar or a harness and put the choker/pinch collar in the bin!).
Your first lesson with which ever dog you take first is manners and self control, so that means hes gotta sit and do it calmly to have the harness/leash put on. Then hes gotta walk by you around the yard calmly.
Practice this first, you can use your food rewards from time to time to reward him adn keep him interested, but use your voice too, talk to him an dbe interesting. Its also important you hold the leash the right way - it shouldnt be wrapped around your hand for example!
I like my dogs to walk on the left (you may prefer the right, its entirely your choice and if you do, reverse left for right in this example).. So I have my treats in my left pocket. I have the handle end of the lead in my RIGHT hand, and the lead runs across my body to my LEFT hand and then down to the dog.
Now most of the time when I am walking, I do not need my left hand on the leash the whole time, so that hand is free to give rewards (see why the treats are in my left pocket, if they were in my right the dog would probably try to step in front of me to get them!) but its also free to grab the leash if needs be.
If you are walking in an area where the dog needs to be close at heel then you can have the left hand on the leash as well. There SHOULD be some slack, the leash is a safety device it is NOT designed to physically hold your dog in the close heel position so there should NOT be tension on the lead at all.
The knack is to teach your dog that forwards movement (which is rewarding) and rewards, happen when he is besides you - he can have his head level with your knee, or his shoulders, or anywhere in between - but as long as YOU decide where you want him to be and you are consistent with it, thats fine. It is NOT true that a dog in front of you is being dominant or thinks he is your leader, and its not true that a dog pulling things this - what IS true is that often a dog ahead of you is not entirely aware of what YOU are doing, and if he is pulling at best hes giving himself a sore neck and you sore shoulders/back.
So the goal is he walks beside you on a slack leash - he doesn't have to be staring up at you the whole time or touching your leg, just walking nicely on a slack leash, ready for wahteve ryou might say or do next.
The most effective way to teach this is to set off at a brisk march, and the SECOND he gets ahead of where you want him to be (and BEFORE he pulls that leash tight, thats crucial and thats why you need enough slack!), you will let go th eleash with the left hand (keeping hold of it with the right), spin 180 and march the OTHER way, so all of a sudden, he took his attention off you and you are shockingly, six feet away going in the OTHER direction.. wow.. that wasn't what he thought would happen!
If you practice this consistently, and as he gets good you chuck in rewards, randomly, for being beside you, and you chuck in changes of speed/pace, direction, maybe stop suddenly and ask for a sit or a down, suddenly break into a run.... he is going to be SUPER keen to stick BY you, because thats how to get forward movement, and not to dash ahead or pull.
To start with you want to practice this in the yard and then out on the street for just five or ten minutes a ta time - forget GOING anywhere, you will go up and down the street getting yourself dizzy, but thats fine, because this stuff is HARD work for him, its actually ten times harder than dragging you along the roads for half an hour ignoring you!
Once you have been doing all the above stuff, every day, with each dog - for two weeks - review your progress and see how they are behaving now? I'll bet you, its better.
I've always been curious about the clicker training so I might just try it with Rex. Boomer, since he was a puppy, I taught him a lot of things without a clicker so I don't know if bringing in the clicker will confuse him.
But thank you, thank you, thank you. I really think this will help me and my family quite a bit, and hopefully it makes my dogs happier.
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
In addition to Emmabeth's wonderful advice, I would suggest changing the brand of food (Pedigree is full of corn and lots of other terrible ingredients and sugars - it's like having a toddler exist entirely on McDonald's and pixie stix!) as well as changing mealtimes to be fed twice daily, rather than free feeding. I would change to a grain free food; they may look more expensive on the surface, but you actually end up feeding less of it! My first dog could eat five cups of Pedigree a day - versus only 1.5 or 2 cups a day on Blue Buffalo Wilderness for example. www.dogfoodanalysis.com is a fantastic site that goes in depth on all sorts of kibble brands, rates them, and explains why.
Free feeding can add stress to an already stressful situation because the food (being a high-value) resource is around all the time. Dogs are not designed to have food around all the time and thus become stressed when it is around constantly; they're full, but the food is still there and the instinct to value and guard it is there as well.
www.dogfoodanalysis.com is a fantastic site that goes in depth on all sorts of kibble brands, rates them, and explains why.Free feeding can add stress to an already stressful situation because the food (being a high-value) resource is around all the time. Dogs are not designed to have food around all the time and thus become stressed when it is around constantly; they're full, but the food is still there and the instinct to value and guard it is there as well.
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
As long as you do some training with all the dogs, you can start out learning about clicker with just one of them.
For dogs who have been trained using force/fear/co-ercion, it CAN take a long time for them to readjust, because clicker training means their brain needs to be switched onto 'figure out how to earn reward, try new behaviours' and that old style of training means they have to be switched on to 'figure out how to AVOID punishment DONT TRY ANYTHING NEW'... as you can see, one kinda cancels out the other.
If you just trained the older dog using treats and luring him with food into the things you wanted him to do, clicker training should be pretty easy for him to figure out (and Pitties and pit mixes are SMART dogs!), but by all means, get the hang of things with one dog first.
If you can change their food, please do - if you want some reasons to offer your parents if they pay for the food, grain free foods mean a dog creates a LOT less poop, and much smaller, less stinky poop as well. They also have better skin and better breath when theres no grain in the diet.
Even if you can't afford to change to a grain free food (Taste of the Wild is my favourite one), there are a ton of better foods out there than Pedigree, if you give us a list of foods you can afford we can tell you which is the best out of them, but as Wes says, though the price per pack is more expensive for the grain free diets, you feed a LOT less, and of course a lot less of it is turned into dog poop!
I should have mentioned free feeding before, but Wes is right, having constant access to food IS very stressful for dogs, as they will constantly worry about it, they may pick out only the best bits and not get a balanced diet, you may find one dog is bullying the others or some dogs are not eating enough.. It is much much better to feed dogs once or twice a day, (in separate places) - at first you might need to put the bowls down, give them 15 minutes each and then remove the bowls (as long as they are not actively eating from it) until the next meal time - they WILL pick up VERY quickly that they eat at meal times or they go with out.
Something else you could do - would Rocky be allowed into the house at all? What I am thinking is, Rocky in the house, Boomer in the garage - give both these dogs a Kong toy stuffed with some peanut butter - then they have something good to do, which exercises their brains and is fun, whilst you train Rex - then you can swap Rex and Boomer over and do the same thing - make sure to clear up all the toys afterwards so there is nothing for anyone to fight over. This way they all get to do a mental puzzle, and enjoy the time whilst tey are separated.
Over time you could adapt this (once they get the hang of food toys) so that they could eat one of their meals each day this way, but they WOULD have to ALL be separated or you really risk a fight and Rocky is very small and old.. It would be worth it because just getting to spend 10 or 20 minutes per day figuring out how to get food from a Kong toy would MASSIVELY improve their day, and so would massively improve their behaviour over time.
For dogs who have been trained using force/fear/co-ercion, it CAN take a long time for them to readjust, because clicker training means their brain needs to be switched onto 'figure out how to earn reward, try new behaviours' and that old style of training means they have to be switched on to 'figure out how to AVOID punishment DONT TRY ANYTHING NEW'... as you can see, one kinda cancels out the other.
If you just trained the older dog using treats and luring him with food into the things you wanted him to do, clicker training should be pretty easy for him to figure out (and Pitties and pit mixes are SMART dogs!), but by all means, get the hang of things with one dog first.
If you can change their food, please do - if you want some reasons to offer your parents if they pay for the food, grain free foods mean a dog creates a LOT less poop, and much smaller, less stinky poop as well. They also have better skin and better breath when theres no grain in the diet.
Even if you can't afford to change to a grain free food (Taste of the Wild is my favourite one), there are a ton of better foods out there than Pedigree, if you give us a list of foods you can afford we can tell you which is the best out of them, but as Wes says, though the price per pack is more expensive for the grain free diets, you feed a LOT less, and of course a lot less of it is turned into dog poop!
I should have mentioned free feeding before, but Wes is right, having constant access to food IS very stressful for dogs, as they will constantly worry about it, they may pick out only the best bits and not get a balanced diet, you may find one dog is bullying the others or some dogs are not eating enough.. It is much much better to feed dogs once or twice a day, (in separate places) - at first you might need to put the bowls down, give them 15 minutes each and then remove the bowls (as long as they are not actively eating from it) until the next meal time - they WILL pick up VERY quickly that they eat at meal times or they go with out.
Something else you could do - would Rocky be allowed into the house at all? What I am thinking is, Rocky in the house, Boomer in the garage - give both these dogs a Kong toy stuffed with some peanut butter - then they have something good to do, which exercises their brains and is fun, whilst you train Rex - then you can swap Rex and Boomer over and do the same thing - make sure to clear up all the toys afterwards so there is nothing for anyone to fight over. This way they all get to do a mental puzzle, and enjoy the time whilst tey are separated.
Over time you could adapt this (once they get the hang of food toys) so that they could eat one of their meals each day this way, but they WOULD have to ALL be separated or you really risk a fight and Rocky is very small and old.. It would be worth it because just getting to spend 10 or 20 minutes per day figuring out how to get food from a Kong toy would MASSIVELY improve their day, and so would massively improve their behaviour over time.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
Well, with the dog food, at the moment we can only really afford anything below 20 dollars. We usually buy the food from Target and the bag is usually really big. The one we currently have is 40lbs and that only lasts about 2 or 3 weeks. I went to the Target website and I was able to give a price range from 15 dollars to 24 dollars. The biggest bag I saw is Dog Chow which was 44.1lbs. Another was Boots & Barkley and that was 44lbs. Neither gave a price but it's in a price range. Are either of those two good? There's also Iams, Purina One, and Beneful that are in that price range but Iams and Purina One are below 20lbs and that won't even last a week. Beneful had a 31.1lbs bag, but I don't think it's big enough either. Regardless however, what would be a decent recommendation from Dog Chow, Boots & Barkley and Beneful?
Rocky is only allowed inside if we're giving him food. We either give him something to eat in a small bowl in the morning or sometime in the evening. It's usually in the mornings though. As soon as he's done eating, he goes out. He also is afraid of toys. Whenever we tried giving him or any of our other chihuahuas before they passed a toy, they would run and hide. I don't know why. The toys were never big so I don't know why Rocky has always been that way. I can see what I can try with Rex and Boomer though.
Rocky is only allowed inside if we're giving him food. We either give him something to eat in a small bowl in the morning or sometime in the evening. It's usually in the mornings though. As soon as he's done eating, he goes out. He also is afraid of toys. Whenever we tried giving him or any of our other chihuahuas before they passed a toy, they would run and hide. I don't know why. The toys were never big so I don't know why Rocky has always been that way. I can see what I can try with Rex and Boomer though.
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
To give you a practical example regarding food: I used to feed one dog Blue Wilderness. It cost me $53ish for a 30lb bag. This bag would last him nearly three months. None of the brands you listed are much better than Pedigree, sadly (Boots and Barkley is even worse!)
Re: Dogs Fighting/Dominance Issues
Perhaps you could try a smaller bag for a similar price, but get a better brand? Then it's not a big risk - and it should last longer as Wes says! So you'd only have to spend the same money per month (give or take) but your dogs would be less hyper, smell better and poop less too.