Started obedience class but don't agree with instructor

[sucittanna]

So two weeks ago my 6 month old dog and I started a beginner obedience class. This is the first time I've taken a class like this. It is a positive reinforcement clicker class and it was recommended to me by a friend of a friend that has two dogs.
First weeks class went fine, but the second week's class when teaching us "down" "stay" the instructor demonstrated on my dog how to get a dog to stay in the down position. To get my dog to down-stay since my dog wasn't doing it - the instructor forced my dog down by pushing him to the ground and then stepped on the leash close to the neck so my dog couldn't get up.

I've watched many YouTube videos on training and Victoria's show, and I agree with all trainers that do not use any physical force on the dog. Unfortunately I can't get my money back and the class wasn't cheap, I've only done 2 of out 7 classes so far. Class #3 is tonight but I'm dreading it. I'm afraid that if the instructor touches my dog again, the way she did when she demonstrated the down-stay by stepping on the leash I'm either going to walk out of the class and choose to loose my money, or tell her not to touch my dog like that and have the instructor and all the other people look at me funny.

I guess when I registered for this class I should have asked more about the training methods that were used, but since I'm new to dog training I just assumed that positive reinforcement using a clicker wouldn't use any physical force.

[elisa]

Be brave and don't let the instructor do anything with your dog again. If they say they are positive reinforcement then they are lying. And down stays during the second lesson? That is demanding a lot. I think the classes I went to only got to downs on the third class and then slowly added time to that, each at their own pace. The class was also not fully positive reinforcement (mostly in case of problems using squirt bottles and the like), but I just took it mostly as socialization and I did teach all the things in the class to my dog positively. Most of the work needs to be done at home anyway.

I would maybe still go to the classes, if you can think of it as positive socialization or just practice for doing things with distractions, but if they jerk dogs around then maybe that will also not apply. With the help of this forum I'm sure you can train your dog yourself. There are threads with loads of information for dealing with all sorts of problems, but if you think you need more specific advice then just ask away.

[Suzette]

Last year, when my dog was a puppy, I enrolled her in a puppy class that I had hoped would be a great socialization tool for her. After the first class, I knew this wasn't for me or my pup. I did get a partial refund, but truthfully I would have walked away and lost the whole amount rather than risk her being frightened and overwhelmed by dogs that, while technically puppies, were older than her and much bigger than her (and much, much more rambunctious).

In my case, the class was misrepresented because the instructor told me the other puppies were around Piper's age, size and general temperament, and of course, it was none of these things. Sounds like your instructor misrepresented her class as well calling it a positive reinforcement class, but using force. I would definitely use this to try and get your money back. If not, consider if it's worth going back and having your dog treated in non-positive ways and you feeling frustrated and uncomfortable in a class that doesn't suit your training style.

[emmabeth]

I do think you shouljd try to get your money back.

She advertised positive reward based training - shes doing that BUT shes using force, thats not what you signed up for and not what you expected. I don't know if this would work where you are but in the UK I would take a copy of her advertisement, any flyers etc and go to Trading Standards and see what they say - or at least tell her you will do this.

I think the only other alternative is to carry on attending the classes (as you have paid to do so), but leave your dog at home - you can be truthful and state that you do not wish your dog to be handled the way she handled him last time and therefore you feel safer him being at home (after all, the class is to teach YOU how to train YOUR dog, not for HER to train your dog for you), or if you aren't that brave make something up about how he can't come.

Lots of people are guilt tripped into attending classes that do more harm than good - a good class is a great thing, but its just a class, its there to teach YOU how to teach your dog, thats all. There really is little done in a class that you cannot do on your own with the aid of videos, this forum, good books, or indeed a one to one trainer if you want one.

In fact there are more things that you CANNOT teach in a class... the environment is after all, false - it doesn't in any way mimic real life (unless you will frequently go to halls full of dogs on leashes with owners with a pocket full of kibble).

Your dog needs to learn to LOVE working with you, in all environments, learning to sit, down, stay, wait, leave it, come, heel - in your house, in the yard, out on the pavement, in the park, in the city streets, on the bus or train, outside a supermarket or school at break time.... THESE are real life situations and you can provide all the ones you need just by taking your dog for a walk and training him!

[Ari_RR]

This is a good example of someone listening to his/her inner voice saying "something is wrong here!".
Well done!

[sucittanna]

The thing is no where on their website or in the literature they sent me, do they specify the type of training method they use for training. Someone told me this was a positive reinforcement clicker class, when they recommended it to me. When I called I asked if the class was positive reinforcement clicker training class and the person who answered the phone said yes. Then they send me two pieces of paper, one was a form to fill out with my dogs info, one were the rules. On the sheet with the rules, there is nothing about the training method. The rules for canceling are a person has to cancel the class 48 hours before the first class to get all their money back, or 72 hours after the first class to get 85%, after that there are no refunds.

I will continue the classes, having my dog there with all the distractions is a good thing, although he obeys commands much better at home, we even go to this neighborhood park where there are other dogs being walked and playing with balls and frisbees, and he does pretty good there. I have a hard time getting his attention in class, he's looking at the other dogs and smelling the floors, so it's a challenge. I've been training my pup extra hard so that in class he just does what ever is asked of him perfectly so that the instructor doesn't have to come over and handle him.

This school has been in business since the mid 80's but they mostly cater to dog show and agility people. The instructor trains service dogs, I think it's a different mind set. The homework handouts has stuff like "don't share your bed with your dog because he will not think of you as his leader" and when taking the dogs in the car, "they have to down-stay at all times or be crated". My dog is my buddy, he sleeps with me in my bed, and when we drive in the car, he sits in the passenger seat, or lies down if he wants to or stands if there is something interesting to see. My rule is he must stay in the passenger seat at all times, not wander around the whole car. What is so wrong with having a dog enjoy the drive as long as he behaves himself? I don't have to control every second of my dogs life, I want him to be free to enjoy himself too. The instructor is one of those people that her dogs can't climb on furniture, they probably sleep on the floor in the bedroom or in another room. I'm not sure, but I think you can have a well behaved dog that obeys commands but has some freedoms. I'm new to dogs, so I could be wrong

[jilldiane]

Personally I would walk away from this class, grimace about losing the money but chalk it up as a lesson learnt. You say you are working hard at training so instructor doesn`t need to handle him and he is very good at the park etc even with distractions so I would say you are doing great without this class. If you are not feeling comfortable in this class ( and I can totally understand why you aren`t) it is going to be hard for you and your puppy to to get much out of it. A good instructor should work out what works for each dog, it sounds to me as those yours is all about making the dog comply whatever it takes!

My dogs are lying on my bed as I type and OK they are not exactly anxious to show me how many sits, down, stands they can do in two minutes but they are not ripping up the house, running around the neighbourhood or generally being difficult to live with just the oppoisite in fact, all that let dogs on your furniture and they will take over the world is a load of rubbish in my opinion ( pity thay don`t take over running the world actually, might be a better place )

Lots of luck with your puppy training, sure you will be fine on your own though.

[chay]

I don't have to control every second of my dogs life, I want him to be free to enjoy himself too. ... I'm not sure, but I think you can have a well behaved dog that obeys commands but has some freedoms. I'm new to dogs, so I could be wrong

honestly, with this mindset you can't go too far wrong. well done on seeing through the trainers' very outdated view on dog/human behavior and relationships and forge ahead and enjoy life with your buddy, not your servant!

[JudyN]

Unless you feel confident that you can go to the classes and prevent the instructor from doing anything with your dog that you are not happy with, I'd walk away. Walking away isn't going to cost you any more than attending, so you just have to ask yourself - would you go to these classes if they were free? If you wouldn't, then it doesn't make sense to keep going. The financial implication is the same either way.

[Nettle]

I see many classes like this which is why, when anyone asks me, I recommend they attend classes without their dog first, and ask themselves:

Do I want my dog to do what these dogs are doing?
Do I want my dogs to be trained the way these dogs are being trained?
Do I want my dog to look and act like these dogs while under training?

Kudos to you for realising that these classes are misrepresented in the literature, and IMO you have strong grounds for getting your money refunded. Up to you what you do, but I would be walking away, refund or not. It takes seconds to ruin a dog, and can be many months or even a lifetime to get the trust back.

There isn't much a class can teach you that you can't achieve by yourself and in the real world.

[MillieMoo]

This is a good example of someone listening to his/her inner voice saying "something is wrong here!".
Well done!

Totally agree with this.... I too started a puppy class with Millie a few weeks ago, I didn't like the instructor, she didn't seem pleasant at all, I felt she was just "sick of her job" not good when dealing with dogs they will soon pick up on her demeanor and never enjoy the training, I was lucky though in not having to pay upfront for all the weeks, she did have a pay on the day basis, I never went back and I have since found a great positive re-enforcement trainer who lets you take your pup to "puppy parties" to get socialised and that was on pay on day basis, and from the first visit I just knew it was a good class so I am going to book for 6wk lessons....

I'm so sorry you are having a bad time with your trainer .... and I agree with everyone's comments on this