blind st. bernard

[alvord72]

Ok, another question. This morning when we tried to take him outside he wouldn't go from the living room which is carpet to the kitchen which is linoleum. Picture a 230 lb dog deciding it doesn't want to move. First he sits down. If we persist he lays down. Well we got him outside by pushing and pulling. We used treats to tempt him, but once he figured out what we were doing he refused the treat. So, now what? I've helped train big dogs before including my own great dane but have never run into one this stubborn. He wants to be in with us but how can I let him in if we can't get him back out? I really don't want to have to repeat this mornings performance everyday, and I don't think it's right to leave him outside all the time he really wants to be by my daughter. All night until she went to bed he sat at her feet pushing against her leg. So anyway. Help! Angela

[JudyN]

A lot of dogs feel insecure walking on smooth surfaces like lino, and using force on such a large dog who may be stressed to start with is not the way to go. I would consider getting a hall runner type rug (or whatever sort fits your house) with a good non-slip backing to lay down over the lino.

[alvord72]

I didn't want to use force like we did. He had been in the house overnight and had several accidents. We had to get him out. Angela

[Sarah83]

Can't you take him out a different way? And as Judy said, get something to cover the path he'll need to take to get out. Lots of dogs are terribly worried about slipper floors and with him being blind I would imagine it's even scarier for him. It's not really fair to label him as stubborn when in reality he's probably just frightened and trying to avoid what it is he's frightened of.

[JudyN]

I didn't want to use force like we did. He had been in the house overnight and had several accidents. We had to get him out. Angela

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as if I was criticising - if I had a dog that size who needed to go out and wouldn't, I'd probably be pushing too

[Nettle]

Do you know anything at all about his life prior to coming to you?

[ckranz]

The longest journey begins with the first step. With the best smelling and tastiest treats spend some time hanging out near the linoleum surface with your treats and clicker. If our dog faces the smooth surface, click and treat, if he puts a paw on the surface click and treat. Keep working this very slowly until he is willing to put all 4 feet on the linoleum. Then move to rewarding steps to the door.

When I mean progress slowly I literally mean one small step at a time. You want to build upon success in changing how he views the smooth surface by associating it with something he really likes.

This tpe of game is great mental exercise so keep training sessions short....I would not expect to perhaps get more than one paw on the floor after the first 3-4 sessions.

[alvord72]

I do know his history. Basically he's been used as a stud for making babies. He was kept outside in a small fenced in area no shade or shelter. I saw the man who owns him beat him with a thick rope around his head when the dog wasn't doing what he wanted The dog would get loose a lot, when his owner caught him he'd kick and hit at him then tie him to the car and drive home. So it hasn't been a real happy life for him. But despite all that he's sweet. He wants attention so badly. Angela

[emmabeth]

I would be making a runner along the lino surface for the time being - this dog is going to need to trust you so much and thats going to be hard, hes a type that learns pretty slowly, requiring a lot of repetition before he will generalise something. He has been abused in the past and he is blind - so really think through all the situations where you may meet problems, particularly regarding his physical size.

Try to figure out ways around problems where you won't need to confront him or use force - particularly important as if he cottons on that lying down and refusing to move 'works' then he will do that forever more and if you think its awkward and not funny IN the house, its a million times worse when he does it whilst crossing a busy road, or in the middle of a store!!

[alvord72]

We made a little progress today. He went up to steps by himself! We coaxed and praised and talked to him for about 1/2 hour but he finally did it!

[Flyby]

First, a massive and resounding Well Done You! for getting him away from such a miserable former owner!!!

Force doesn't work with my Odin. I never use force anyway, but he's just too strong and he's half the weight of your St Bernard. I know you agree with that already, but my point is I know the problems moving a dog who doesn't want to move when force simply isn't an option.

From your post, I take it this a new situation for all of you, and the dog isn't used to you, or linoleum underfoot, nor by the sound of it, being indoors. The problem might just be sensory overload for the poor fella, too much new stuff and all coming at once, and fewer senses to cope with it all. And despite how miserable it was, his old home would be familiar place, and if he had any comforts before, they're gone too.

Patience is the order of the day I reckon. It takes time to work out which buttons to press to get the best response from a dog you don't know. Life is much easier when you know a favourite high value treat or something your dog will bargain over, but it all takes time to work out. All you have to work with are sounds, taste and smells, which must be quite a challenge, but once the penny drops he won't be clobbered about the head just for not understanding, I suspect he'll become more co-operative. The secret is patience and time, and loads of TLC.

Another alternative might be to let him explore and roam around his new house under his own steam. Cajolling a dog to confront something he doesn't want to face is rarely a good idea. If facing something they don't know, the 'run away' option is never far behind the curiosity.

It sounds like a lovely story in the making, and I really hope it all works out.

[Flyby]

More progress please Alvord72.

How's the big fella doing?

[alvord72]

He's doing pretty good. Mostly what I'm noticing is lack of confidence, new house, new people etc. He's been vet checked, no health problems. His blindness is a I think he said congenital birth defect, he was born with it. I talked to the previous owners and they said they didn't know he was blind they beat him because they thought he was stupid or intentionally disobeying them. They also used him for breeding, getting 500 for stud fee. They had registered him with the AKC. So, I took him him to get fixed, that was the vet visit. Don't spam me if you don't agree with fixing I think it's important. Anyway, now he sleeps indoor in my daughters room, I bought a full size mattress for him. He takes the 3 stairs going outside a little easier. He's just slow, takes about 10 minutes right now for him to work up to it. I'm still unsure how to handle the sit and lay down when he doesn't want to do something. Right now I'm just not putting him in a situation where he will lay down to refuse. I'm working on getting him not to want to sit in my daughters lap. When she's around he backs right up to her and plops his behind in her lap. She thinks it's cute but it's not allowed. Right now I have her shove him and stand up telling him no. We've done two short walks in the evening when it's calmer. He's really good, it's more us who need the training. When he walks he likes to push against your leg, I guess he feels more secure like that. But I'm used to pushing a dog off when he does that, so it takes some getting used to. He hasn't bothered our chickens, duck, rabbitt, bird or cat so that's been good. Today we're tackling a bath so I'll write more tonight on how that works out for us. Angela

[JudyN]

How awful that the previous owners didn't recognise that he was blind - they can't have made any effort to understand him

Can I ask if it's essential for him to have a bath? It could be a really scary experience for him, which is the last thing he needs. If he's going to need baths, it might be better if you take it in very small steps, starting with just going into the bathroom & getting a treat, then paws up on the side of the bath and rewarded, etc... Even if it means he's a little whiffy in the meantime!

I think it would be better if your daughter can avoid pushing him and saying 'no'. She should be able to tell when he's about to do this so it would be better if she just got up and moved every time he was about to do it so it doesn't ever become rewarding for him.

[alvord72]

Thank you for the reminder of not pushing and saying no. I knew that, just forgot, so thanks. My daughter is also special needs so I'm always in the room with her when the dog is. She hasn't decided on a name yet. I am having her just get up and walk away when he tries to sit on her. No bath today, he's been nervous so I've been leaving him, not trying to force or anything. Another thing I hadn't thought of, maybe I'm just not that bright. My son who is 15 came home, I was outside. He brought in his usual 2 friends and the one is dog crazy so just walked up to the dog to pet it. I came in and caught it and made everyone back off. What I did and hopefully this was ok, I had each of them approach slowly while talking to him then let him sniff their hand/arm then try petting, but one at a time and slowly. That worked pretty good, but then they had to leave the room. Ugh! This is all so new! So much comes up I never saw coming! But he's worth it. Angela