Hey all,
I am having a relatively new wierd behavior from my 5 year old male White GSD, Fenway. I adopted him 2.5 years ago and all in all he's a wonderful boy. His past included neglect and he was abandoned by his previous owner who moved away and left him in a 4x8 kennel with no doors, so they must have fed him by pushing food through the fence. When I took him home, he was super head shy, very skittish with guests in the house, and not comfortable with being handled at all, but with a lot of love, patience and obediance training, he's rewarded my by blossoming into confident, sweet, goofy guy who is whorish to guests.
However, I have one issue that has popped up and would love suggestions on how to modify his behavior. My old roomie has moved out and now have a new roommate. Fenway is fine with him coming into the house and walking around the house. In fact, he's sweet and mild mannered with the roomie (even has given him puppy kisses), but the minute Robert tries to go out the front door and if I am not there to correct the dog, Fenway turns into cujo. He growls, barks and attempt to bite.
I have noticed that the behavior happens randomly before. For example, a guest whome he is all lovey-dovey with gets up, and heads downstairs to leave, Fenway will charge down stairs or even block them from getting to the stairs and go ballistic. But this happens rarely...1 out of every 20 times someone visits, but it seems to be happening more frequently?
Obviously this is not good. I want my roomie to be able to feel safe and not have to sneak out the back door and I don't want to have to worry about guests getting bit or traumatized by trying to leave. Any ideas what's going on and how to correct or modify this behavior?
FYI: My whole consistent approach with him is he must earn everything: food, affection, play-time. I don't allow him to come into or to leave the house without my "ok."
Aggression when Guests or New Roomie Try to Leave
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: Aggression when Guests or New Roomie Try to Leave
Hi Mikey1150!
Sounds like "Separation Anxiety." Fenway is afraid of being abandoned again and doesn't want to be separated from you, so I think is the reason why he growls, barks, and attempts to bite anyone who is leaving your home. Did he react this way with your old roommate?
At any rate, to combat this, I would suggest doing some training in which you and your new roommate try leaving, without saying a word or give him any attention, and step outside your flat, apartment, or house, just outside the front door for a little bit -about ten to fifteen seconds but not long at all. If he doesn't react, come back in and reward him for behaving good, even if it is for a very, very short amount of time. If he reacts, come in, but do not reward him or give him any attention, just like you've come back to get something you've forgot such as keys or cell/mobile phone or whatever. Step back outside the front-door and repeat. Keep this training session going for only ten minutes, because after that, he may get bored and you don't want that, you want him to want to learn more.
As he gets better, make the standing outside the door part a little bit longer -let's say 2 to 5 seconds longer- and repeat. Just add these 2 to 5 second-longer increments as your dog gets better getting used to the both of you going out, without having him growl, bark, or snap/bite. When you get, let's say, two minutes, step away from the door a little bit, but close enough he doesn't see or hear you, but you can see and hear him. If he's good, step back inside and reward him. If not, go back inside as if you forgot something, then repeat. Keep the training session to no more than ten minutes each time.
As he gets better of not growling, barking, and attempting to bite, and you're going to be away for a while, leave him some kongs with frozen treats inside or toys that he has to work in order to get the treats out of the toy, chew toys, bones, real rawhide bones, and other such dog items that will keep him occupied for that amount of time you will be away. This will keep his mind off of you and your roommate while you're away.
Sounds like "Separation Anxiety." Fenway is afraid of being abandoned again and doesn't want to be separated from you, so I think is the reason why he growls, barks, and attempts to bite anyone who is leaving your home. Did he react this way with your old roommate?
At any rate, to combat this, I would suggest doing some training in which you and your new roommate try leaving, without saying a word or give him any attention, and step outside your flat, apartment, or house, just outside the front door for a little bit -about ten to fifteen seconds but not long at all. If he doesn't react, come back in and reward him for behaving good, even if it is for a very, very short amount of time. If he reacts, come in, but do not reward him or give him any attention, just like you've come back to get something you've forgot such as keys or cell/mobile phone or whatever. Step back outside the front-door and repeat. Keep this training session going for only ten minutes, because after that, he may get bored and you don't want that, you want him to want to learn more.
As he gets better, make the standing outside the door part a little bit longer -let's say 2 to 5 seconds longer- and repeat. Just add these 2 to 5 second-longer increments as your dog gets better getting used to the both of you going out, without having him growl, bark, or snap/bite. When you get, let's say, two minutes, step away from the door a little bit, but close enough he doesn't see or hear you, but you can see and hear him. If he's good, step back inside and reward him. If not, go back inside as if you forgot something, then repeat. Keep the training session to no more than ten minutes each time.
As he gets better of not growling, barking, and attempting to bite, and you're going to be away for a while, leave him some kongs with frozen treats inside or toys that he has to work in order to get the treats out of the toy, chew toys, bones, real rawhide bones, and other such dog items that will keep him occupied for that amount of time you will be away. This will keep his mind off of you and your roommate while you're away.
"Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius." -author unknown
Re: Aggression when Guests or New Roomie Try to Leave
Get your roomie to give the dog a giant, juicy bone... see how interested he is in where your roomie is going then... 
"Oh what gold there is to find when one is blessed with an open mind" - me, not five minutes ago 
Re: Aggression when Guests or New Roomie Try to Leave
Thanks all. I appreciate your input. I don't think it's separation anxiety. He doesn't show the usual traits of acting out while I am gone or when I leave. In fact, he's so good while I am gone, I don't crate him. He's not destructive, he doesn't bark or whine when I leave.
I posted to a coupla other blogs and a behavorist helped me to figure it out. Thought I'd share as an FYI or in case someone else browses this thread with similar issues. It's below:
I posted to a coupla other blogs and a behavorist helped me to figure it out. Thought I'd share as an FYI or in case someone else browses this thread with similar issues. It's below:
It's a not uncommon behavior. There are many stories about dogs letting a burglar enter the home, pack up the family's silver, but ripping his pants or more when the burglar tries to leaves with his booty.
I interpret it as territorial aggression with possibly a component of predatory aggression. It is directed towards people who are not part of the pack from the dog's perspective and are on the pack's turf (territorial), and it is displayed when the 'intruder' turns his back and moves away from the dog (predatory). With his history of fear of people, due to lack of socialization and possibly other mistreatment, he is probably not comfortable taking a person on frontally. Some dogs display this behavior without fear component though.
What I suggest is that your new roomie, you, and Fenway go for a few walks together, a pack activity. Best are relaxed, social walks patrolling the neighborhood for at least 30 minutes together. Going somewhere else together entails being in a car together, too much for now. Do not let the roomie do any behavior that feels like pushing himself into the pack, e..g. let the dog initiate play with the roomie, not the other way around. They don't have to play together though, just 'patrolling' together is important.
It looks like you have done a marvelous job with Fenway, and he is a lucky dog. You might want to continue daily fun obedience work with him, just that he is reminded of who is making decisions. Make sure you do not pity him for his past but focus on his and your strengths.
However, it is also important to understand the nature of a protective herding breed, and that a GSD not well socialized as a youngster and some territorial aggression is not the best match for a household with a lot of come and go. It can be very stressful for such a dog, and there are limits to what one can reasonable expect of such a dog. The solution then is adding management of the behavior. I would not put Fenway in the position of being loose in the house when visitors are around and about to leave. You can train a down stay and he'll keep it but you cannot rely on visitors to not step up to him and intrude into his personal space, even if so instructed. Oftentimes crating a dog when there is coming and going is a huge relief to the dog, and to the owner.
If that is an option, it'd be a good idea to contact a local behaviorist who understands aggression (not many pet dog trainers do) and who works with positive methods, to work out a protocol based on observation rather than only being able to read a description of the behavior.
As owners of a profiled breed, we unfortunately have to also be aware of the possibility that a person who felt nipped (and cujo barking can readily escalate to that) might make a case out of it. Not to scare anyone, but just a reminder of the times and places we live in with our dogs.
Re: Aggression when Guests or New Roomie Try to Leave
Just my opinion... I would be wary of this advice since it has roots in pack theory, which has been proven to be not only not effective but can actually be harmful for the dog (and human if it all goes wrong!). There are good points in it (such as not letting your roommate approach Fenway, but rather letting Fenway go to him), but I would personally get a second opinion from someone who is not based in "pack" theory. Going to bump this up for you as I don't have any suggestions other than to be wary of this advice and to treat this as fear, not aggression. If it is fear, you won't have made anything worse. If it's not, you haven't done any more damage. So bumping this in hopes someone with more experience with this can be of help!
Re: Aggression when Guests or New Roomie Try to Leave
I'm going to agree with Wes on this one. Many of the behaviors our dogs display must be managed in a more beneficial way, one that allows the dog to behave a certain way without harming other people or dogs or himself; but on the other hand, address what causes unwanted dog behavior or behavioral problems by removing what causes or causes stress to our dogs, and this is what we call Behavioral Management.
As for this suggestion from this behaviorist, this could be directed about humans as well. Reread it and compare it to us humans. These sound like human thoughts on observed wolf behavior. Dogs may be related to wolves, but dogs aren't wolves.
When you described the behavioral problem you were having with your dog, this sounds like -and still does- sound like the classic example of "Separation Anxiety", which can take many forms. That's why I gave you the advice I did, which is based on your description of the problem.
As for this suggestion from this behaviorist, this could be directed about humans as well. Reread it and compare it to us humans. These sound like human thoughts on observed wolf behavior. Dogs may be related to wolves, but dogs aren't wolves.
When you described the behavioral problem you were having with your dog, this sounds like -and still does- sound like the classic example of "Separation Anxiety", which can take many forms. That's why I gave you the advice I did, which is based on your description of the problem.
"Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius." -author unknown
Re: Aggression when Guests or New Roomie Try to Leave
how long did your old roommate live with you? how was your new roommate introduced to your dog? does your new roommate smoke, drink heavily, wear strong smelling colon etc. is your new roommate a big person, move stiffly. Or make rapid movements. have deep voice, make lots of eye contact. leans over the dog, gruff to the dog etc, etc,
Lots can be going on here that has absolutely nothing to do with "territorial aggression" or "predatory aggression" (nice little made up catch phrase
)
The person you got this advice from wasn't totally wrong, not well socialized and history of fear reactions towards humans are two important points. far more important and relevant than much of what else that person tries to share.
All the talk of pack this and pack that, predator aggression, territorial aggression, etc are all distractions to the root issue.
your old roommate leaving, new roommate coming in, FAR more disruptive and stressful than you may realize. you have a poorly socialized with humans dog that has fear issues. change is going to be VERY unsettling if not handled well and it's gong to take time for your dog to feel comfortable with new humans in his life.
The advice to have the dog in a crate in a quiet safe place where people can't come up to him or just in another room with the door close is not bad advice. is this possible? how is your dog being left in a room by himself with others in the house?
for meeting new people, don't ever have them give treats in a way he had to come take it from there hand when he is first meeting them. have your dog in another room, have the guests sit down, you go get your dog and on a leash bring him out, let him choose to approach your guests IF he wants to, then when he does, mark and you provide there treat reward. guests can toss threats if you want, but only if you trust them to not lure your dog in to take it from their hand. Let him choose to go up to them. luring him in puts him over threshold. soon as he doesn't have the treat to distract him, he realizes he is too close and that is when he will lung/bark/nip/bit if any of that is going to happen.
that he goes at your roommate from behind, strongly supports that he is low confident and fearful. maybe for leaving build a ritual, provide a kong with some food to work at as you/roommate walk out the door your dog is eating not following you/roommate to the door. Or give a nice favorite chew toy just before you/roommate turn and walk out. hard to nip if the mouth is full of chew toy. think creative.
Lastly, I would ease up on the earning everything concept. that can be really stressful on a dog, particularly a low confident already stressed out dog. it is ok for him to ask for attention/affection and to play. asking doesn't mean you always given, but it is ok for the dog to ask. teach your dog an ok way to ask.
it's ok to have rules and rituals. example, I do asked my dog to sit and hold the sit while I put his food bowl dog. I did this not to make him earn is meal, but to give me a chance to put his bowl down. soon as the bowl was down, I released him. so stuff like that is ok so you don't have a bull in a china shop so to speak, but there are lots of things in life that can and should be free. my opinion, he doesn't need to earn everything. there is no value in this.
Lots can be going on here that has absolutely nothing to do with "territorial aggression" or "predatory aggression" (nice little made up catch phrase
) The person you got this advice from wasn't totally wrong, not well socialized and history of fear reactions towards humans are two important points. far more important and relevant than much of what else that person tries to share.
All the talk of pack this and pack that, predator aggression, territorial aggression, etc are all distractions to the root issue.
your old roommate leaving, new roommate coming in, FAR more disruptive and stressful than you may realize. you have a poorly socialized with humans dog that has fear issues. change is going to be VERY unsettling if not handled well and it's gong to take time for your dog to feel comfortable with new humans in his life.
The advice to have the dog in a crate in a quiet safe place where people can't come up to him or just in another room with the door close is not bad advice. is this possible? how is your dog being left in a room by himself with others in the house?
for meeting new people, don't ever have them give treats in a way he had to come take it from there hand when he is first meeting them. have your dog in another room, have the guests sit down, you go get your dog and on a leash bring him out, let him choose to approach your guests IF he wants to, then when he does, mark and you provide there treat reward. guests can toss threats if you want, but only if you trust them to not lure your dog in to take it from their hand. Let him choose to go up to them. luring him in puts him over threshold. soon as he doesn't have the treat to distract him, he realizes he is too close and that is when he will lung/bark/nip/bit if any of that is going to happen.
that he goes at your roommate from behind, strongly supports that he is low confident and fearful. maybe for leaving build a ritual, provide a kong with some food to work at as you/roommate walk out the door your dog is eating not following you/roommate to the door. Or give a nice favorite chew toy just before you/roommate turn and walk out. hard to nip if the mouth is full of chew toy. think creative.
Lastly, I would ease up on the earning everything concept. that can be really stressful on a dog, particularly a low confident already stressed out dog. it is ok for him to ask for attention/affection and to play. asking doesn't mean you always given, but it is ok for the dog to ask. teach your dog an ok way to ask.
it's ok to have rules and rituals. example, I do asked my dog to sit and hold the sit while I put his food bowl dog. I did this not to make him earn is meal, but to give me a chance to put his bowl down. soon as the bowl was down, I released him. so stuff like that is ok so you don't have a bull in a china shop so to speak, but there are lots of things in life that can and should be free. my opinion, he doesn't need to earn everything. there is no value in this.
