help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

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dodge-white boxer
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:03 am

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by dodge-white boxer »

karajell wrote:hi.i have two dogs one 4yr labrador and 1 1/2 yr old male boxer dog ,we have had him for around 8 months now , his previous owner kept him in a cage for most off the day with the odd walk as far as i know.. when we went to see him he was fine ,no aggression ,just very bouncy :o .we took him home and instantly got on well with my other dog and 3 children,, the trouble is when anyone comes into the house he just jumps straight at them and growls /mouths them.. ,i have tried keeping him on a lead and when he calms down let him off ,it still happens,ive taken him out of the room same thing so basicly no one wants to come in now, also when i try to take him out for awalk as soon as he sees anyone he lunges forward to attack them the same if he sees a dog so i try to stay calm but just end up turning the opposite way and walk home ,which is a shame as hes really great on the lead untill he sees someone..so now im too wary to take him out as i dont know how to deal with him..hes really loving at home always flops down on your lap for a cuddle ,he has no problems with food aggression.. and he sleeps in my daughter room at night...also if he sees people outside he straight at the window barking . hes got the most gorgeous looking face and i dont want to give up on him,,hes also aggressive at the vets,, (hes due injections in june ) and i really dont want to have any more confrontations..if anyone could give me some advice that would be fantastic.. :)
(I m quoting the whole lot so I can read it as I go,sorry :lol: )

I wont add anything to the vets advice as everything has been said already I think xx
So have you tried a clicker? I m just throwing ideas out here . . . . for your troubles at home,find the best ever treats for him,see what really rocks his boat and keep those for special times . . . when you get a visitor,throw a treat on the floor,then another,then another probably best to keep him on the lead first to make sure he is ok and go from there,the more he is not jyumping up or giving attention to the guest the closer you are to your goal of him being calm . . . has he actually hurt somebody that you kept him on the lead? If you have a friend that wouldnt mind practicing with you,that would be helpfull xx

One thing that makes me think is your statement that you cant or dont feel comfortable to take him out for a walk . . . he will be stacked with energy hun :shock: so I would say to work on your walks and recall first of all,a tired dog is a happy dog I heard a couple of years ago and boy is this so true,I m rambling on here,sorry :oops: there are so many people here that will give you the very best advice on everything,I m just butting in,sorry :D
Listen to what you are reading and put it into practice and you will end up with the babe you want (from one boxer owner to another,I learned a whole lot from these lovely peeps here :P :D ) talk to you soon xxx
karajell
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:15 am

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by karajell »

hi , no your not butting in and all advice especially from another boxer owner ,,is great ,i need all the help i can get,,
when he is on a lead he tends to be more aggressive , he has jumped up at some one and scratched them on the back :( ,where i live it is a small town so where ever i go i bump into people then this makes me nervous making me not want to take him out which is not fair..
hes a very reactive lad any noise he hears hes up looking out the window or running out to the back garden ..which is a good thing in a way in terms of guarding..
in the car today i was reversing out of a parking space at my local co op and a few people where in the way "by their car " and he just went wild trying to get to them ,i have to put a muzzle on him in the car as he has tried eating parts of it :( ,and my other dog alfie a black lab gets the brunt of his anger which is a nightmare ,,hes very wild when in the car ,so i only take him when i have too , he loves cheese ,so at the moment i give him a little bit of primula spread when im far enough away from a person and he doesnt react, i think this will take years as hes a nutter .
anyway thanks very much ill keep working hard with him :) and hopefully well see some great results with him :)
ladybug1802
Posts: 1991
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:39 am
Location: Surrey

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by ladybug1802 »

One thing thats helpful to remember though...is hes not a nutter...hes very scared. My dog was the same in the car....anyone walking past he would bark ferociously at....now hea pretty much OK unless someone walks very very close and happens to look like a workman in floerescent clothing!

But yes it will take a long time.....working with fearful dogs with issues always does. They will often be worse on lead because they feel constrained, but also, any amount of tension or stress from the owner, and the dog feels it down the lead. And dont underestimate this....even if you are making a big effort to be calm, your body will give this away! I wouldnt stop taking him out...but instead if you meet someone, keep a distance away from them...explain he is scared and you are working with him. WQalk him at times you are less likely to see people as well?
runlikethewind
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:48 pm

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by runlikethewind »

Where are you based?
karajell
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:15 am

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by karajell »

hi ,we are in mid wales ... :)
runlikethewind
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:48 pm

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by runlikethewind »

There are a few Mid to SW Wales trainers on this site. Unlike APDT (UK), everyone on here is certified force-free and use only the most up to date methods.

http://www.petprofessionalguild.com/Fin ... nal?&tab=1

I personally would seek some face to face help so you can be shown what methods will help him feel happier around dogs and people.
JudyN
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Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by JudyN »

runlikethewind wrote:Unlike APDT (UK), everyone on here is certified force-free and use only the most up to date methods.
I thought APDT (http://www.apdt.co.uk/) only used positive up-to-date methods. Is that not the case?
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
runlikethewind
Posts: 1166
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:48 pm

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by runlikethewind »

The APDT ban the use of obvious aversives but *some* APDT clubs I have experienced fall short of being able to recognise or perhaps they are ignoring a whole host of other aversives - shouting, being too close to other dogs, being too close to other people, raised voices even, head haltis, manhandling, walking into the dog to get a sit (for example) - where the dogs are visibly stressed or uncomfortable. Some APDT clubs I've known use over-threshold negative reinforcement methods (pressure/release, putting the dog over threshold and waiting out for alternative behaviour). Some I've experienced seem to have fallen behind on what is now the recognised standard - never put a dog in over threshold where he cannot cope and always recognise stress and avoidance signals.

The Pet Professional Guild's ethos is 'do no harm' amongst others. I take that to mean emotional harm as well as physical harm. Oddly, their entrance requirements seem less comprehensive (website review, interview, peer interview) than the APDT (comprehensive exams) but maybe they are reviewing that. I've been told however that anyone working with a PPG trainer will be well looked after and the dog will be kept physically and emotionally safe and as happy as possible.
Boxacrazy
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:06 am
Location: South Oxon/Berks borders

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by Boxacrazy »

Your boy is getting frustrated and needs to be worn out - however being worn out doesn't necessarily mean exercise.
Working with him doing obedience exercises can also wear him out mentally and can be an answer for you in the short term.

I would say that you would benefit from some professional help to help build your confidence in being able to handle your boy Bruiser.
But it needs to be the 'right' training for you and your dog.

At 18 months old Bruiser was approaching the horrid 'kevin' stage (that most Boxers go through) and to be honest that's probably why the dog was being rehomed.
As the people didn't know how to cope, and rather than work with problems that they may have caused or made worse rehoming
the 'problem' is the easiest option.

The work that you can put in now will honestly pay off later, it's not going to be an over night fix and it may always be a 'management'
program rather than a complete solution to Bruiser's issues,
Boxers seem to cope best with firm but fair handling, but you need to find the right trainer/behaviourist that understands the Boxer, they aren't a
Border Collie and you will find some training clubs don't accept Boxers. If you work with the right trainer/behaviourist honestly you will reap the rewards
as both your confidence will grow and hopefully Bruiser's confidence will also grow in you and being able to handle the outside world.

We have had a Boxer boy (neutered) returned to us to just over a year ago (15 months), he was 3 3/4 yars old. He had been to obedience training classes
as a puppy (infact he has brilliant obedience skills - better behaved than his 2 sisters and mum in that respect) but he seems to have had zero socialisation
skills. His owners that had him since he left us as a 8 week old puppy were experienced with the breed. But through out his life with them he's had quite
alot going on they had builders in and out, he was put in kennels as one of his owners had operations etc they did at my suggestion have a behaviourist
that came to visit once but they never continued with this, instead they asked their vet for tranquilisers - their vet refused saying they needed a behaviourist.
The last straw was that he alledgedly bit someone and the morning after the phone call came he had to go and go now....

We've had a challenging time with Alfie and we are now approaching the time to again search for the right trainer/behaviourist to help us with Alfie.
In his time with us he's had to undergo his tail being amputated as he'd injured it. When we went to a reactive dog class with Alfie (and he was muzzled)
he'd get stressed and develop colitis and scurvy skin. (This was before his tail amputation). He like Bruiser reacts badly outside the home at both dogs and people.
However over the time we have had him we have managed to improve on some things and not others. We now feel that he's at a position that we can now try
again to find the right trainer/behaviourist to help us all improve on Alfie's behaviour. But I'd like to find a trainer that uses the BAT techniques that Alfie seems
to work better with. We have managed to get Alfie to accept my Dad and now he adores my Dad whereas on the first visit you'd have said that Alfie would have
probably bitten Dad. If meetings are carefully supervised and Alfie gets to know and feels confident that the person isn't a risk to him over 3 visits I feel confident
that he can cope but I watch Alfie and wait for him to let me know he trusts the new person before allowing free rein and allowing Alfie to come out of the kitchen.
You also have to have confidence in your visitors that they will do exactly as you ask or are dog savvy and know what you are trying to achieve.
I take Alfie to my vets muzzled as I don't want to put him or my vets at risk, I always ask for the earliest or the latest appointment for each surgery.
So that when I take him in there are no dogs or very few dogs in the surgery, my vets are good and understand Alfie's issues. He has gone in since
having to have his tail amputated and although we were slightly concerned that he would react worse when we took him in again, he was actually ok.

I don't know whether Alfie will ever get to stage of being 100% better and at almost 5 years old now it's going to be harder than it would have been if we'd
have got Alfie back when he was a lot younger. He will probably always be a work in progress/management project.
With Alfie again I am sure that he probably started out the same as Bruiser being a bit OTT and bouncy and because his behaviour wasn't addressed asap
it was allowed to develop into fear aggression. Which is so much harder to resolve than OTT/Bouncy.

I just wanted you to know you aren't alone and that with the right help and your committment I think Bruiser can be turned around.
But do reiterate that you need to find the right training methods that will help you both and here they are a great help too.
Also that neutering may not be the answer as some would try and have you believe it can make a fearful dog worse, try the chemical version first
and you will find out if it may help.

Good Luck!
karajell
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:15 am

Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by karajell »

HI, JUST A LITTLE UPDATE ON MY DOG BRUISER ,HE IS MAKING VERY LITTLE PROGRESS AT THE MOMENT ,ALTHOUGH HE IS A TINY BIT BETTER WHILE IN THE CAR AND I MEAN TINY :( , HE IS A SMASHING BOY BUT IS STILL REALLY REACTIVE TO THE SLIGHTEST NOISE INSIDE OR OUSIDE IN THE GARDEN ,IF HE HEARS A DOG HE BARKS ,PEOPLE TALKING HE BARKS ANYTHING HE REACTS TO :!: I HAVE COVERED MY SITTING ROOM WINDOWS SO HE CANT JUMP BARK AND GENERALLY GO BONKERS WHEN HE SEES SOMEONE GO PAST , ALSO WHEN I TAKE HIM OUT WHICH IS REALLY AWKWARD AS I LIVE IN AN ESTATE SO IS VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID PEOPLE .DOGS CATS,ETC HE DOES GO MAD LIKE "QUICK LET ME OFF THE LEAD I WANT TO GO AND GET THAT ! " I KNOW IT SOUNDS SILLY ,WHICH IS WHY I DONT TAKE HIM OUT AS OFTEN AS I SHOULD IM JUST NOT THAT CONFIDENT :( ..
PEOPLE DONT COME IN THE HOUSE AT THE MOMENT AS ITS JUST TOO STRESSFUL FOR BRUISER AND WITH MY OTHER DOG ALFIE BARKING WHEN PEOPLE KNOCK ON THE DOOR JUST WINDS HIM UP EVEN MORE,,
A FEW PEOPLE HAVE SAID TAKE HIM TO A ANIMAL BEHAVIOURIST BUT THIS IS NOT AN OPTION .
I DONT KNOW WHATELSE TO SAY REALLY SO IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE FOR ME I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT,
PS JUST FOUND OUT THE PERSON WHO HAD BRUISER BEFORE US HAVE ONLY GOT YET ANOTHER DOG ,! A BOXER AGAIN: :( ALSO DO BOXERS ALWAYS JUMP AND BOUNCE AROUND OR DO THEY CALM DOWN AS THEY GET OLDER ,THANKS KT
emmabeth
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Location: West Midlands
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Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by emmabeth »

You might be surprised at the cost of a good behaviourist, not all of them charge a fortune (I don't!) -- you WOULD need someone to come to your house though, there'd be little point in seeing him elsewhere since most of the issues occur at home!

Covering the windows IS a good step - until I live in a house that has a view across either my own garden only or open fields, I will ALWAYS have my front windows covered with frosted window film, because watching whats going on outside on a busy street is just too much for the vast majority of dogs, its a recipe for frustration and stress!

There must be some times that you can take him out - note, you do NOT have to take him for a long walk, find five minutes several times a day (and that can be at 2 in the morning if needs be!) and pop out, do a bit of loose leash walking training, do some clicker training and go back inside.

The more your dog learns that going outside means focusing on you and work (and of course, reward!), the better he will be AND, having to spend a solid 5 minutes concentrating and figuring out how to earn his rewards is HARD work for him, he will be tired by it.

Indoors, play games with him, feed him from Kong or other food dispensing toys, play puzzle games, do five minute sessions of clicker training - it is these things that will tire him out and get him more responsive to you and better trained.

When people come over have him in another room so he is not involved in the whole 'theres someone at the door, answer the door, bounce on the person' process. Bring him into the room on a lead, with a pocket full of high value rewards on you, sit and talk to your guest and keep rewarding your boy for staying calm and sitting and being a good lad. Pop him back in the other room when the guest is ready to leave again (ie, before they get up and go to the door).

The more you can repeat that, the calmer he will become as guests coming over will now have a definite structure, there will be NO free for all bouncing and mugging, it will be super easy for him to figure out what to do (sit quietly, get rewards).
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
karajell
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:15 am

Re: boxer problems now my other dog is feeling brave and barking

Post by karajell »

hi ,ok thanks that makes sense i will do that, what do i do when i start bringing people into the house with keeping him on a lead and lots of treats, when he goes to lunge at the person do i take him out of the room :? as i know he will certainly try and would this be better with my other dog out of the way :!: ..
i have another problem that seems to be getting worse with alfie my labrador he seems to be feeling very brav e over the last 6 months everyone he sees he barks at ,he never used to be :( he is usually a very quite shy dog when if you went up to him he would run away ,i am not sure if its because he has seen bruiser barking at everthing and everyone thats started him off ,would be very grateful if someone could advise me on how to prevent him barking at everyone :) . any help is much appreciated ,thanks kt :wink:
emmabeth
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Re: help male boxer dog is people/dog aggressive...

Post by emmabeth »

Definitely be better with the other dog out of the way, and I would be ensuring he cannot get near enough to actually want to lunge, or be able to reach a person if he did.

If he is lunging, he isn't really in a position to listen to you - if your living room is small you may need to work with him in another room where he can see the guest but not get anywhere near them, and keep it at that level until he is a bit better with it all.

If you think there is ANY chance he may get close enough to lunge and either actually bite someone, or just bump them with his face then put a basket muzzle on him - the plastic kind, not the fabric mesh kind - you can make a bigger hole in the front of a basket muzzle to allow you to put treats through the bars.

The reason I didn't suggest that first though is that it is absolutely crucial that you do NOT use the fact that he is muzzled and therefore cannot bite, to allow you to put him in a position where he might want to - often people are tempted to push a dog too fast because he is muzzled and 'can't do any harm' - and whilst it is broadly true he cannot bite someone whilst wearing a muzzle, he can batter, bruise and scare someone and he CAN feel totally overwhelmed and feel like he NEEDS to bite people, which will actually make him worse.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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