Hello
We have a Staff x Lab, probably a bit more staff than lab. He's 3 years old (ish) and we've had him about a year. We rescued him from the local shelter.
I have a small problem in that I cannot get him drop his toys outside the house.
Inside the house or in the garden he will fetch toys and drop them at my feet, I reward him with treats and praise and he is mostly fine. Once I get outside of the house it's a completely different matter. If I throw his toy once he will keep hold of it until we get back to the house. If I don't have a toy he will grab the nearest stick.
My partner has no problem getting him to drop anything at any time. If we go out together there is also no problem it's only when we are on our own.
All other things like recall, loose leash walking, sit / stay I have no problem with it's just the dropping. Sometimes he will drop his toy a couple of times and then you can see him switch to playing keep it away.
I've tried keeping him on the lead for a month and not letting him play but he didn't get the exercise he needs and started putting on weight. I've tried owning his toy and carrying it around with me in the house but it makes no difference. I try to mirror my partners commands but he ignores me. I tried a compressed air correction spray which worked in the short term but he got used to it and it wasn't a solution I saw as permanent anyway.
He becomes completely disinterested in even high value treats once he is out of the house and has a toy. I can place a treat on his tongue and it will stay there.
When we first got him I mistakenly played a small game of tug of war and I think he's now looking to play that everytime we are out.
Any suggestions gratefully received!
Drop!
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: Drop!
Tug isn't a mistake, you can play tug and yet still have a dog who drops things on command 
My Lab is tug mad and will drop his toy when told. I reward that by playing tug again since that's what he really wants. So basically the tug game ends but he can get it to start again by letting go of the toy. I did the same sort of thing with my collie although that was more accidental than planned.
How was your dog taught to drop toys in the house? Have you tried using two toys as Jindo asked? What sort of treats have you tried with him?
My Lab is tug mad and will drop his toy when told. I reward that by playing tug again since that's what he really wants. So basically the tug game ends but he can get it to start again by letting go of the toy. I did the same sort of thing with my collie although that was more accidental than planned. How was your dog taught to drop toys in the house? Have you tried using two toys as Jindo asked? What sort of treats have you tried with him?
Re: Drop!
Thank you for the quick replies.
Yep, I've tried using another toy. He prefers whatever is in his mouth to even his most favourite toy.
I've used all kinds of treats, he's just not food orientated when he wants to play. Normally he will do anything for a schmako or a bit of cocktail sausage but will not drop for me.
In the house I get him to sit in front of me, I give him his toy and tell him to drop and he does. I reward him and repeat. I also hold the toy while he's got it in his mouth to simulate the tug of war, tell him to drop and he does, not instantly but pretty quickly. I treat and praise.
As soon as I step out of the house, he forgets it all!
The really annoying thing is that if he won't drop his toy at the front door my partner can just shout drop from anywhere in the house and he will do it instantly.
I've not tried playing tug as a reward Sarah, I will give that a go!
Yep, I've tried using another toy. He prefers whatever is in his mouth to even his most favourite toy.
I've used all kinds of treats, he's just not food orientated when he wants to play. Normally he will do anything for a schmako or a bit of cocktail sausage but will not drop for me.
In the house I get him to sit in front of me, I give him his toy and tell him to drop and he does. I reward him and repeat. I also hold the toy while he's got it in his mouth to simulate the tug of war, tell him to drop and he does, not instantly but pretty quickly. I treat and praise.
As soon as I step out of the house, he forgets it all!
The really annoying thing is that if he won't drop his toy at the front door my partner can just shout drop from anywhere in the house and he will do it instantly.
I've not tried playing tug as a reward Sarah, I will give that a go!
Re: Drop!
My dog seems to think his rules apply when we're in the garden too!
I think I'd stop asking him to drop altogether in the garden because every time he ignores you, it reinforces that he doesn't have to do it. Are there any commands that he will obey for you in the garden? I'd concentrate on them and work on getting him to listen to you. Maybe have a supply of several balls, ask for a sit, watch, or whatever, and reward by throwing the ball. You could even knock up some agility equipment and look at training him for that - it would be a great way of getting him to focus on you while having fun.
What does he do if you throw another ball while he has one in his mouth? If he'll chase the new one then say 'drop' the moment the first ball leaves his mouth.
I think the key is to make him think that you're not in the slightest bit interested in the ball in his mouth, so you need to work out ways of making him drop the ball of his own volition. Maybe ignore him when he has the ball in his mouth, but as soon as he drops it (because it's not so much fun when you're not trying to get it!) start playing again, or treat him.
If he sees 'drop' as slightly threatening, it may even be worth introducing a new command. One behaviourist suggested 'lassa' to me, which means 'leave' in some language I've forgotten. Until you're confident he's getting more responsive to you, don't ask for the behaviour - just use the word when he does drop the ball and make sure it's followed immediately by something rewarding.
I think I'd stop asking him to drop altogether in the garden because every time he ignores you, it reinforces that he doesn't have to do it. Are there any commands that he will obey for you in the garden? I'd concentrate on them and work on getting him to listen to you. Maybe have a supply of several balls, ask for a sit, watch, or whatever, and reward by throwing the ball. You could even knock up some agility equipment and look at training him for that - it would be a great way of getting him to focus on you while having fun.
What does he do if you throw another ball while he has one in his mouth? If he'll chase the new one then say 'drop' the moment the first ball leaves his mouth.
I think the key is to make him think that you're not in the slightest bit interested in the ball in his mouth, so you need to work out ways of making him drop the ball of his own volition. Maybe ignore him when he has the ball in his mouth, but as soon as he drops it (because it's not so much fun when you're not trying to get it!) start playing again, or treat him.
If he sees 'drop' as slightly threatening, it may even be worth introducing a new command. One behaviourist suggested 'lassa' to me, which means 'leave' in some language I've forgotten. Until you're confident he's getting more responsive to you, don't ask for the behaviour - just use the word when he does drop the ball and make sure it's followed immediately by something rewarding.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Drop!
Is it vital that he drops it? A lot of dogs are comforted by the feel of carrying something. Could be he is a little stressed when out on walks and he likes to carry. I'm always meeting very happy pet dogs trotting along with a toy in their mouths.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
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Re: Drop!
I had a golden retriever like that - she always had a stick or tennis ball in her mouth for walks. It just made her happy.Nettle wrote:Is it vital that he drops it? A lot of dogs are comforted by the feel of carrying something. Could be he is a little stressed when out on walks and he likes to carry. I'm always meeting very happy pet dogs trotting along with a toy in their mouths.
My avatar is Piper, my sweet Pembroke Corgi. b. 5/11/11
Re: Drop!
Thanks for the replies!
JudyN if you throw a ball when he has one in his mouth he chases it and circles it then runs back to you. He seems to enjoy that.
I agree Nettle & Suzette , he does seem more comforted and less stressed when he has something in his mouth. I just feel like he should drop for me when I ask him too, like if he has something he's not supposed to or is dangerous?
JudyN if you throw a ball when he has one in his mouth he chases it and circles it then runs back to you. He seems to enjoy that.
I agree Nettle & Suzette , he does seem more comforted and less stressed when he has something in his mouth. I just feel like he should drop for me when I ask him too, like if he has something he's not supposed to or is dangerous?
Re: Drop!
I think 'he should do such-and-such' is a line of thinking that can lead to aversive, 'dominating' training. He's just being a dog, as Nettle would say, he doesn't know that he's not fitting our idea of how dogs are supposed to behave.OtherHalf wrote:I just feel like he should drop for me when I ask him too, like if he has something he's not supposed to or is dangerous?
I think you have to start not by thinking what he should do, but what you want him to do, and work out the best way to get there. Even though not trying to get the ball off him may seem to be evading the issue, it could be the best first step in getting to the stage where he will drop on command. My dog used to guard socks to the point that he would attack me if I just looked at him when he had one. Soon after I stopped trying to get them off him and left him to chew them, he started bringing them to me in exchange for a treat without me asking for them.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Drop!
I swap with Spencer who seems to have learned to play keep away with things like socks and random bits he picks up off the floor 
We're at the point now where if I say "shall we swap?" he'll usually drop what he has and come looking for a treat. If it was something safe for him to have I'd give him the item back as well as the treat just so swapping didn't always mean he lost the treasure he'd found. And tonight I exchanged my purse (god knows how he'd got that!) for a piece of paper 
And I agree with Judy, sometimes not acting like you want the item works. I think that's why I can get the ball off Spen while we're out and my hubby can't. If Spen plays hard to get with me I just ignore him while hubby tends to keep trying to get the ball. I end up with the ball practically shoved into my hand once he realises I'm not interested enough in it to make an effort to get it.
We're at the point now where if I say "shall we swap?" he'll usually drop what he has and come looking for a treat. If it was something safe for him to have I'd give him the item back as well as the treat just so swapping didn't always mean he lost the treasure he'd found. And tonight I exchanged my purse (god knows how he'd got that!) for a piece of paper And I agree with Judy, sometimes not acting like you want the item works. I think that's why I can get the ball off Spen while we're out and my hubby can't. If Spen plays hard to get with me I just ignore him while hubby tends to keep trying to get the ball. I end up with the ball practically shoved into my hand once he realises I'm not interested enough in it to make an effort to get it.
