Clomicalm

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helpmeandmydog
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:47 pm

Clomicalm

Post by helpmeandmydog » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:51 pm

any dog on clomicalm for nervousness? my vet wants to put my dog on it since she is so nervous of people

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Nettle
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by Nettle » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:53 am

Have you tried a desensitising programme first? Very few dogs actally need drugs to help them.

Please tell us about your dog, breed mix, age etc and her typical day, and some examples of what happens when she is afraid of people. Then we can help more.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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helpmeandmydog
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by helpmeandmydog » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:54 am

I tried but my dog cannot focus when outside, seems concern over things and does not respond to me, the vet said that this will help, I thought about trying something else like scullcap and valerian

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Nettle
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by Nettle » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:36 pm

We need those details please.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

jacksdad
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by jacksdad » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:54 pm

helpmeandmydog wrote:I tried but my dog cannot focus when outside, seems concern over things
In nature, "fear" or awareness of new things is NATURAL. this is how you stay alive. for a wide variety if reasons this shows up stronger than desired in some dogs. It's natural, normal etc. But due to what we want from dogs, often isn't desirable and causes problems.

Since most of the time this is a natural behavior at it's roots, this is why medication often isn't required. essentially you have to go back and re socialize your dog. ie the desensitizing Nettle mentions. However, how you do this once the "problem" manifests is a bit different than when you have a "blank slate" puppy.

So, again if you can answer the basic history Nettle ask for, it would help us better be able to give you some direction.

things like rescue remedy can assist with behavior modification, but by it's self won't solve fear.

helpmeandmydog
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:47 pm

Re: Clomicalm

Post by helpmeandmydog » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:37 pm

she is 3 years old and a mixed breed, I think she is a spaniel/eskimo mix but not really sure. She lives with me and another dog who is outgoing. I walk her twice a day and she can play in the yard. she is home alone for only 4 hours a day. She eats once a day. She is fed a grainfree diet, when she is afraid she will shake and try to hide behind me or move away from the person

jacksdad
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by jacksdad » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:15 am

Is her fear reaction only to people she doesn't know or any people besides you?

how is she when people come over to the house? or is she only scared outside on walks?

Has she always been likes is or did she have a bad encounter at some point?

have you had her since she was a puppy if so about what did you get her? any negative encounters at young ages with people?

If you adopted her, do you know about what her age was when you got her? how long have you had her? do you know any history on her?

how is she with other dogs or animals? is she ok with sudden noises? when riding in a car? basically does she show fear in any other situations besides people?

For the moment, I would highly recommend just giving her A LOT of distance from people she doesn't know. let her observe them from safe distances, and don't let unknown people or people who have NO need to touch her, be near her etc, try and touch or be near. Just give her a break from people as much as you can to start. give this a week or two. No new people to the house, on walks keep the greatest distance possible.

You should see her relax a bit or a lot during this time. This isn't "cured", but it does make behavior modification much easier. Then slowly reintroduce people at starting at the distance she needs to not show fear, let her look at them, or at you, or sniff the grass. doesn't matter right now, she knows they are there, but the key is that she choose to do something other than "zone" in on them and react fearfully. you can combined this with a really tasty treat or access to a super favorite toy. This will slowly change her association from "OH MY GOD ITS PEOPLE" to "ooooh cool, people..people are nice because I get nice things when they are around".

how you would do this is at her safe distance, when she looks at a person, then turns back to you. treat. if she ignores the person and just looks at you, treat.

your job in all this is to protect her and keep that distance. protecting her simply means NOT letting anyone come up to her right now. working on meeting and "accepting" new people is a "step" for later. right now, I would urge just letting her de stress and do a little desensitizing from a distance to start.

This isn't a complete program, but start here. when you get a chance if you could review my additional questions it would help.

crlink
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Clomicalm

Post by crlink » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:11 am

I have an 8 year old Yorkie that has been on Clomicalm for 6 months now. It's made a huge difference in her! She was very high strung and reactive to everything- people, dogs, leaves flying past the window...
Now it's easier to adjust her behaviors. When she starts to react, she will stop if i correct her.

Clomicalm doesn't have a generic, so it's expensive. But we've found it worth it!

jacksdad
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by jacksdad » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:40 am

crlink wrote:Now it's easier to adjust her behaviors. When she starts to react, she will stop if i correct her.
When you say correct what do you mean?

when people say this, they often mean some kind of "punishment" from just telling their dog NO! in a loud voice, to actually thing to hold their dogs mouth closed, to smacking their dog, to yanking on leashes, etc. in an attempt to end what is perceived as "bad" or "disobedient" behavior.

emmabeth
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by emmabeth » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:43 pm

I have used Clomicalm successfully - but it will NOT work on its own, it needs to be done with a behavioural modification program, and I am pretty suspicious that your vet does not know enough about dog behaviour - vets do NOT study dog behaviour unless they specialise in it, so often your vet is NOT the best source of info/advice on behavioural problems.

Please do give us a run down on exactly what happens, when, how, what you do about it.

The fact that you say you are correcting her reactions worries me - her reactions are just that, reactions - she is stressed and has little control over things once she is reacting so anything you do will either make no difference, or make her worse, at that point.

Can you tell me, at what distance can she see something she'd normally react to, and not react?
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant

crlink
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:41 am

Re: Clomicalm

Post by crlink » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:36 am

No, I'm not punishing her. I'm able to distract her from whatever is getting her overly excited.
jacksdad wrote:
crlink wrote:Now it's easier to adjust her behaviors. When she starts to react, she will stop if i correct her.
When you say correct what do you mean?

when people say this, they often mean some kind of "punishment" from just telling their dog NO! in a loud voice, to actually thing to hold their dogs mouth closed, to smacking their dog, to yanking on leashes, etc. in an attempt to end what is perceived as "bad" or "disobedient" behavior.

emmabeth
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Location: West Midlands
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Re: Clomicalm

Post by emmabeth » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:47 am

Ok - so instead of allowing her to get into that state - for the next couple of weeks, avoid it completely. Turn around, walk or RUN the other way, do whatever it takes so that she doesnt get over excited/reactive.

After you have spent a couple of weeks doing that, you should know at what distance she can see but not react and roughly how long that might last for as well - that is the distance you work at, that is the distance you need to be at when you are offering rewards and trying to counter condition.

If she is reacting, it may well be that shes taking the rewards out of habit but not really seeing them as rewards, and as such, not really learning anything. It makes more sense to not HAVE to work at distracting her and let the counter conditioning work for you.

If at the end of two weeks her stress levels have not dropped, and you cannot get out of the front door without her reacting, and you cannot calm her down by going back inside - THEN Clomicalm may be suitable. It is really for animals who become hysterical and cannot calm down, who take DAYS to calm down, and this actually does not sound like your dog, so you would be throwing your money away with it (and it isn't cheap). But let us know how you get on with management/avoidance first and we can help you with any issues that crop up along the way.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant

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