Loose Lead Walking gentle ideas for a reactive gsd?

[reactive123gsd]

Well I have tried everything.... EVERYTHING.....! If someone says well you did not do it well, or enough has no idea what I have been through... I am writing this post because I am at the point of just trying something that I never liked (prong I hate prongs so help me someone)..... I have allready wrote another post about my dog's reactivity, and I am doing counter conditioning. Which have been going really well.. My dog allways walked really well on the leash everyone would tell me "Wow I wish my dog walk so well like yours." well lets say he usta walk so well because I would allways use the "turn around method" ALL THE TIME. Plus when he was a pup I used the clicker alot to teach him how to walk. My problem is that I can't do the turn around method all the time, and I can't use the clicker all the time because it will start to loose it value. Outside there is snow, the side walks are iced so there is NO WAY I can do the turn around method. Plus it makes me dizzy, and at a certain point it tires me out so bad that I start to loose me temper (I am a really calm person) and I get stressed out. It has been ever sience he was 4 months old he has been doing the turn around method. I want to enjoy my walks if I have to think about counter conditioning, plus trick training, plus loose leash walking all at the same time durring a walk I get so tired out mentaly to a point I start making mistakes and I start over stressing my dog. I am a person that make shure I never pull, or tug on the leash to not create negative associations with something in the enviroment. Plus I try to make shure not to tug him, because I do not want to associate myself to something negative. I have tried switching to a basic harness... nope doesn't work starts sniffing on the ground, and he doesn't budge. I tried a halti, and gentle leader too. Plus I want to say that I have NEVER walked ahead if he pulls. If he pulls I stop, and turn around... My dog, and I have a awesome relationship we play while training, he comes when called, off leash he never leaves my side, never destroyed anything in the house, he is such a good dog. He does get the zoomies on walks, and he gets aroused over everything (on leash). He starts hopping, leaping, tugging on the leash, he can even walk 4 hours straight offleash, and be really well behaved... the moment I put a leash on him there he goes with the zoomies.... I want to pull my hair off! He is use to go alot of places ever sience he was little, but when I take him anywhere he goes crazy like he haven't walk for days. When he takes 2-3 hour walks a day (we do take pauses durring the week to not over stress him). I can try to be as calm as possible NOTHING.. NOTHING WORKS (I make shure allways to take huge breathes). Once he even nipped my hand out of nowhere while I was crossing the street (to avoid a dog), and I had to put a muzzle on him (I was so fustrated at that moment that I was crying)! I did bite inhibition work on him when he was a tiny pup... I don't know.... I dedicate all my time of my day for the happiness of my dog, and it feels like nothing I do works. I need a solution... I have bought a Easy Walker Professional... hope it well help.... Any other ideas? I know I might be hated for the idea for putting a prong on my dog, but I dislike prongs too, and I need alternatives. Sorry for the long post... I am out of it!

[reactive123gsd]

Oh yeah I wanted to add my dog isn't scared at anything. He loves everything... he only get anxious when there is another dog... he has been socialized alot... Off leash he is calm around other dogs.

[Horace's Mum]

How old is he now?

[reactive123gsd]

He is almost 14 months... I don't know if it is a age thing or not... It could be...

[Erica]

I think, if you're getting frustrated on your walks, the best thing to do is make them much shorter, so there's less for you to get frustrated about (I have to do this every once in a while!). Take him for 6 5-minute walks over the course of the day instead of an hour-long walk, and do some inside brain-games as well to keep him entertained (this thread is a great place to start). Someone else may have suggestions for loose-leash walking...

[reactive123gsd]

My problem is that if I do take him out only for a few mins he gets anxious, I do lot of brain games , and training through out the day but if he does not get his off leash time at the park he drives me more nuts. I wish I had some super dog training powers...

[jacksdad]

Your frustration. ABSOLUTELY know how that feels. I spent 4 months beating my head against a wall feeling like I was making no progress with my reactive dog back in early 2010. It is FRUSTRATING and you most defiantly entertain ideas of giving up, thinking maybe what your doing is wrong and that the prong collar people might be right.

Well I have some VERY good news for you, they are wrong. Dead wrong. What we will advise here works and works well. But we don't advise quick fixes.

So.....what to do next?

First things. VENT and then find something that you enjoy doing to blow off some steam and release some stress. If your are stressed, your dog is going to pick that up and be stressed to and not be as responsive to training.

The second thing is, and please hear my out on this, AVOID all together (or at the greatest distance possible) whatever it is that sets him off for 2 weeks. don't both with counter conditioning or anything like that. think of places and/or times you can go out for a walk that runs the least chance of running into whatever it is he is reactive too. Looking back on your posts it's dogs that are the issue? Anyways, it sounds like you both need a break. So, take one. taking a break isn't going to cause your training to fail, if anything the more break you can give our self and your dog over the next 2 weeks the better. It will help with your training when you start back up.

If you think of how our bodies (and this goes for dogs too) stores stress as a glass of water. As you experience stress (good or bad) the glass fills up with water. when the glass is full there is no where for the water to go, so it spills over and out of the glass. this is where your dog reacts and you start thinking of prong collars. To make progress both you and your dog need to let the glass empty out because the more full it is, less progress you will make to the point of even no progress. Letting the glass empty out does not happen over night. hence the urging of you taking two weeks off and avoid to the best of your ability your dog's trigger or triggers.

After your break, come back and lets talk about how to get back on track. Because it is possible to do.

[emmabeth]

Hold, wait, stop...

I can't use the clicker all the time because it will start to loose it value.

What?

Ok so I am being a little over dramatic here but... if you think the clicker is going to lose its value, you ARE using the clicker wrong OR you do not understand what the clicker is actually doing (but are luckily doing it right. I will jump for the former.)

So - first of all give yourself a break!!!!!! I am definitely not going to say that you have not done enough or have not tried enough - you have, in fact... you have tried to do TOO much.

Take your walks down to five or ten minutes - they are not 'walks' any more, they are outdoor training sessions. The lesson is walking on a loose leash, this IS compatible with avoiding other dogs (because you are teaching your dog to focus on you and stick close to you so about turning away from something that may trigger him is no different to doing it when he is about to pull).

Next thing - snow and ice - if you can walk on it, you can train on it - if he is in danger of pulling you over and I suspect he is - you are about turning TOO LATE. Do not do this when he pulls, you do it before he pulls.
If you need some help on the ice (and I know all about that, I can't walk on ice or snow at all) then google for some grippy trainer/boot grips, lots and lots of places carry them for really not much money at all.

So - 10 minute walks, keep your stress low, keep his stress low. Repeat those as often as you want, as often as you can. Lots of short walks is MUCH better for you both than fewer long ones. Oh and if he gets the zoomies and he won't calm down wh ilst you put the leash on and ask him to sit, drop the leash, YOU go sit down, count to ten and try again. If his ten minutes are up before he calms down, go do something else for half an hour and try again.He will learn that zoomies = no walkies if you are consistent about it.

Now, back to the clicker - please tell me how you have been clicker training and why you think over use will make it less effective.

Go have a cup of tea and relax and remember this is supposed to be fun, it doesn't sound like fun right now at all so we will help you with that.

[Ari_RR]

...I was so fustrated at that moment that I was crying..

Follow the advice above, including "Take a deep breath, pause, stop, etc" - it is important that YOU are calm and relaxed when working with him.. If you feel this much frustration, he will without a doubt sense it, and his stress level will go even further up.

[reactive123gsd]

I am so happy to see so many replies!

When I clicker train I usually allways shape intel I get a certain action. I keep clicker training short max 2 mins, and I use a high reinforce rate depending how well he knows a command. For example he knows sit so well I can leave him in a sit position leave the house max 1 min for now, I click when I get back. When I do counter conditioning I use the marker word "yes", and I mark right when he sees a dog, and three seconds after he is still looking at the dog, moment he looks at me(today I actually got him to look up at me after seeing another dog without I even noticing that there was another dog). Oh I make shure to stop with him wanting more, plus he does not have a high food drive so I can't keep on stuffing him with treats because they will get borring for him.. I will tell you I have mixed, and created the most disgustingly smelly treats out there to a point people on the street say I stink.

This morning I took him out on a quick walk outside for 15 mins both of us where pretty relaxed the whole time(in 30 mins I will take him out again). The thing I am afraid of is that he might even learn to walk well but the moment he gets out of a certain environment to go somewhere he starts to get so excited where he starts going ahead again. If I take a walk with my husband he gets so aroused that he goes crazy. Let me tell you that I can even take him out hours he never sits. Plus I can't not avoid all triggers because I live in a European city, where people, pigeons, noises everywhere it is never quiet out. There are times where there are less dogs out, but there are allways dogs everywhere all the time! I have took him everywhere, ever sense he was 8 weeks I made shure to get him to use all types of noises, pavements, water, snow, smells, the list goes on! When he was 2-3 months he would never react to anything. His first fear period past so nicely too.

Yeah stress is like a cup of water when I or the dog gets stressed out I make shure to pause for at least the rest of the day, or the next. I notice the more I remain stressed the worst it gets.

Oh yeah I tried the easy walker professional today the walk went better than usual.... It seems to be better than the gentle leader for him.

[Ari_RR]

Gentle leader has limitations.. It only works when the dog is in front of you, and if he pulls and you try to hold him with gentle leader - you are risking a neck injury.
With a strong dog with pulling issues, gentle leader should be used with a harness, essentially you would have 2 leashes, with a slightly shorter one attached to the harness, so if he pulls - the impact is on his chest, not on his neck.

I would stick to easy walk.

[emmabeth]

Right - now I see what you mean with the clicker - it isn't really the clicker losing its effectiveness, its his desire for the rewards you have available.

Would he be more foody if you reduced his food portions and used some of that as his rewards so he has to work to eat (not completely, still give him some food in a bowl as I think making a dog work for EVERY bit of food is a touch draconian!). A friend of mine has done this with her collie and as a result he is MUCH more foody, plus now its a gamble, high value food or just kibble, he never knows!

The other thign I would do if at all possible, is at home, mix up the rewards he gets for clicker work with toys IF he likes those, so sometimes its food... sometimes its a game!

Stick with the shorter walks for now - yes at first he will need you to pick the quietest places and environments possible (hard I know!) but as you progress and really build these foundations strongly, he will generalise into behaving properly everywhere.

It will take time and you will need to take things slooooooooooooooooowly, keeping things short keeps YOU under threshold too and that really is important - if you are not in the right frame of mind for training there is no point doing it, so do something else for a bit!

[reactive123gsd]

Yeah the gentle leader can cause so much damage that is why it is too stressful to use.. I did attached it to his collar, but it was terrible because the leash would keep tangling up with his legs. Here is what would happen he would start pulling I would stop that same moment. he would go immediately behind me then a second later he starts walking infront pulling again, and I would stop and we would repeat, repeat, and repeat again non stop! Plus it stressed my dog out too much it wasn't fair for him!

[Sarah83]

I'd try having him work for most of his daily food ration. That's what I pretty much had to do with Rupert if I wanted to train him and still have him eat his meals. Some days he'd work for pretty much all his food, other days he'd work for a little and get the rest in a bowl.

The reward for a click doesn't have to be food, it can be ANYTHING the dog wants. Food is just easiest because it's so quick to give a food reward. Rupert usually wouldn't touch food outside of the house so I used letting him go sniff as a reward. It wasn't ideal as we got very few repetitions per session but it worked.

Nothing to add that others haven't said to be honest. I can sympathise on the pulling, I've just adopted a 9 month old Lab and he is HELL on the leash.

[reactive123gsd]

Emmabeth! Yep it is his desire for the rewards! It is my biggest problem of all. I have tried using half of one of his meals, as treats to get him to work a little. Inside the home it works okay, but out side it is blah. I make shure to switch up his "prizes" sometimes it can be praise, then treats, play, toys, bones, free time offleash, to get petted by people on the street, you name it I try to make everything become as rewards. If I didn't neutered him I probley use ariving to his "mating partner" as a reward after training hehe... oh yeah.. I think of them all. I think I might exagerate too. Yeah making him work for every single kibble is too much!

The idea of taking things slow is sooo hard for me. I love taking him out on walks...... The reason why I wanted a dog is to take him everywhere... Like I said I hope this is a age thing, even if I would like to solve it as soon as possible. I wish I can be a person that does not care if my dog pulls me or not. Do you think that if he gets use to be calm on walks over time his arousal goes away on his own? That he becomes less aroused to stimuli if he is constantly introduced to thoes stimuli in low doses, then start upping the notch little by little.. ) I don't know if it is clear what I am trying to say... I am so tired at the moment *yawns*