Loose Lead Walking gentle ideas for a reactive gsd?

[reactive123gsd]

Guys quick question later on I will reply better because I need to go out and do some shopping before my husband gets back I don't want him asking me "it's me or the dog" anyways took Joker on walk and we run into a dog on the other side of the fence we where so close that they where face to face, I didn't have any treats left so I throwed a toy infront of his face Joker imediatly grabbed it and moved away from the dog in a matter of seconds his hackles went down, and we walk imediatly away. I let him sniff everywhere to not get him to auroused by his surrondings( he gets auroused even for a leaf falling from a tree), but I started to notice him starting to get a little zoomy so I took him home before he got over threshold. Did I do a good job, or I shouldn't have used the toy?

[Erica]

That was fine! You thought on your feet and distracted Joker quite effectively. Good job! Toys work better with some dogs than treats.

[jacksdad]

it's not about "treats"...it's about what the dog finds rewarding or worth of turning away from scary and not reacting. food treats work best for most dogs, but for some dogs toys work just as well or even better. even better than one or the other is being able to mix it up a little...but that depends on the dog.

bottom line, you did good.

[reactive123gsd]

Jack and Erica yay you guys are making me feel proud of myself! I am happy that I did it the right way! I usta get so mad with Joker, and loose my patience so easily that it is a big step for me!

Horace training tricks is harder than I thought! It is not easy at all! I guess with experience a person will automatically start getting a hang of everything... In the book section of this forum I brought up Control Unleashed.. Well I just got it in the mail, and it is amazing! It talks also about reactive, stressed dogs too it made me think about what you guys wrote, and I am starting to realize how much a dog suffers being so stressed and reactive. Before I wrote you guys I thought the dog was just acting up, being annoying but it is not... Lots to learn...

[reactive123gsd]

two things I need to ask.. I know the questions never stops... Well we where going on our second walk of 10 mins, and out of no where joker lunged at a Vespa!! I was ready for everything except that! Well it was so out of the blue tha i marked it and gave him treats... I imagine that I shouldn't have done it.. I should have treated him before he lunged. It pretty much looked like a play lunge, zommy lunge. I am now afraid that the fact he is not getting too much exercise is going to cause him more problems..... Like I am also afraid for the fact he does not play with enough off lead with other dogs it might be bad for him. I just noticed that he is getting even more auroused then usual it could be for the extra energy. Plus I was reading and it was saying how prey drive is different from aurosal what does that mean? I took him to the park once this week I wish my husband would give me a ride more often... *sigh* wow it is so weird how from going to a new park everyday by foot and public transportation for 3-4 hours straight we are now been only once in this week. I have to admit I wanted to go to the park today but we past two street blocks, and was getting already zommie and I took him imediatly home!

[reactive123gsd]

Does clicking actually work to calm down a behavior like what happened with the Vespa, or if someone calls him and I imediatly treat him before he gets jumpy?

[reactive123gsd]

Argh we just went out again and there he did it again but with a car! Now he is starting to chew his soft crate in the house!! I can't take it!!!!!!! Arghhhuhhf!! I played with him two times this morning took him out in the backyard twice, took him outside 4 times, did some mental stimulation games!! He is driving me CrAzY! I am about to pull my hair out! I have to clean house, cook from scratch a huge dinner, go buy some groceries, take care of the cats, study, dye my hair(which would be a miracle if I can get to it, take him out again various times of the day, I don't know how to relax anymore... I thought the problem was getting better but now it seems like other problems show up... My energy gets more drained out than the dog allways everysecond i have to keep a eye on him. I can't sit down on the couch with my husband without even worrying, thinking about the dog. rant

[reactive123gsd]

Sorry guys about the last post I was Out of it

[Erica]

It's alright; if ranting helps you blow off steam, feel free to do it here!

[emmabeth]

Just remember - you are building foundations here.

If you rush the foundation stage, when you build the house, it will fall down really easily the minute a big truck goes by or theres a storm... If you build those foundations good and strong and deep, then even an earthquake will do only minimal damage..

So - preventing negative experiences. Rewarding good stuff. Practicing and getting behaviours 100% around the house and yard - these are your foundations.

Focus on these things for now, the other stuff can wait.

If he is getting restless at home because of the lack of exercise - consider whether you can exercise really late at night/super early in the morning (ie when it is still dark), and increase the level of games/training indoors - if he is struggling with the hard stuff, do the easy stuff. Get him food dispensing toys to eat his meals from instead of bowls, get him BIG raw meaty bones to work at during his 'down time' too.

[reactive123gsd]

Hey guys! How are you all doing? Just an update after about a month. Well my life with Joker has been becoming 100% Joker. It has been pretty fustrated for me (no time for myself, husband, friends, family , not even neighbors say hi anymore because of him I feel like the dog is isolating me), but I kept on using your guys advice on everything. We have been doing okay, I have to admit we have went through 2 weeks where Joker didn't lunge at anything because I was so prepaired, but sience I have been becoming so obbsessed over "reading" his body language. I am starting to realise he has a huge arousal problem due to his enviroment. Like if we go on a walk at 5 AM or 6 AM just tiny changes in his enviroment makes him easily get aroused, stresses, and it seems like he goes in his "little" world. Even on offleashed walks I have been making shure to sit every 25 feet to let him pause, but he get so super stimulated by everything that he refuses to take treats, and can't concentarte. Our walks around the block are still max 20 mins only at quiet times so I can counter condition. My husband has finally understand my problem with the dog, and is taking us every day to a park by car for a quiet 45 min off leash walk (sometimes he meets other dogs to play he is becomeing a bully so I have to recall him every few mins to get him to sit and calm down, most of the time he sees them only in the distance). Just recently Joker has becoming even more jumpy than usual, he seems to pay attention to everything in his enviroment. The other day we ran into a dog which should be a underthreshold distance for him, but just because there where more enviromental triggers in the air he went crazy! The other dog sent him calming signals, and freezed (the owner freezed too with his body language). I was stuffing Joker with treats not realising how Joker was going over threshold. He started barking at everything, and everyone. He went out of it his hackles where up, all his weight was on the front of his legs, and tail was stiff. I pulled him out of the way behind a barrier, and he kept on barking. People where rolling there eyes at us, looking at me discusted... Well when he started to calm down I started to treat him for every calming signal. Intel he went back to normal. Then Joker went in a break down, never in my life I have seen him so closed in himself. We where having good results too there has been time that he has lunge in the past month where he had recovered immediatly like if nothing happened! I don't know I feel like a faliure..... I don't know if he is going through a fear period.. but I am afraid that his fear period is a quick peak of how he is going to be in the future. I bought a book called Scaredy Dog Understanding and Rehabilitating Your Reactive Dog. It says to do a week of quiet walks with him, and don't take him anywere for now . I will start trying that.. I have stoped trick training Joker also because we have been working on and off games (for arousal), protocol for relaxation, hand targeting, body awarness exercises (body awarness exercises I have put on a hold for a week), watch me, go to place (mat work), look at that game (ideas I got them from Control Unleashed book). If I add trick training in with, counter conditioning.. I would have to have soo many treats.. and time, and concentration. That is too hard for me. Any ideas how to raise his self asteem, and also my own? I feel that every day I feel so far away from him, and it is making me so sad. I can't take him to new places he gets so overwhelmed. I can't take him to crowded places he gets overwhelemed. I can't take him to a bar to relax sit down, and drink. I can't do anything with him! I know I sound mean but the dream dog that I dreamed 7 years for isn't how I expected.. but I just hope that one day he will be better to have a happier life with me. I have socialized him so much.. it seems like he never did anything at all. Plus he has his seperation anxiety that I need to work on too . I am not going to give up.

ps I was reading one post on here stating a video on youtube of a lady that says how it is important to counter condition a dog when they feel safe. If he does not feel safe it is like just poping hot dogs in his mouth for no reason.

[Ari_RR]

Hey! Not an expert of fearful or easily excitable dogs, so no comments on the technique.

But 1 point though - it sounds like you are conscious of how others perceive you and Joker... And it sounds that when folks around roll their eyes (seeing your dog barking and going crazy behind the barrier) - this hurts or upsets you.
This is very understandable... But keep in mind that Joker picks up your vibes.. If you are apprehensive during the walk (Oh no! There is a dog at the corner!! Joker will bark, and the people will roll eyes again! What do I do, where can we hide?!! ) - he most likely notices and this adds fuel to his anxiety..

The ideal case would be if you both go out expecting to have a great time together.
But clearly - you go out expecting all kinds of uncomfortable and embarrassing situations.
He probably senses that. So before you even step outside, you both are already a bit on edge.

I don't know how to change that. The only advice I can give you - don't pay much attention to passerby's rolling their eyes, that's not really important.. I wish strangers were more supportive of each other, and offered a smile or a cheer instead of rolling their eyes when they see a young lady trying to calm a barking dog, or a young mother trying to calm a crying child.
But it is what it is, we are what we are, so best you can do is not worry about it

Salute!

[minkee]

You are stressed out to the max! My sympathies. I haven't been in your position, but many on here have, and I really feel for you!

So, I know someone saying STOP STRESSING SO MUCH, STOP STRESSING SO MUCH! ITS REALLY IMPORTANT TO STOP STRESSING! is one sure fire way to not relax! However, what I think you can do, is look at it a whole new way. YOU are doing what is RIGHT and BEST for your dog. It's going to be a long tough road but you're doing the right thing by starting down it! Those people who roll their eyes at you - don't let them get you down. If anything they'd make me feel cross! "Here I am working so hard and all you can do is tut and roll your eyes? To hell with you!"

So I say BLAH to those people. Don't for a minute let them get you down. If _I_ see people with dogs who are clearly uncomfortable with either me or Scout being near, I'll move away from them. If we're walking down a street, I'll put myself between Scout and them, or find a car to hide behind, or move off the street and behind a bin / building / anything to block the view. Scout doesn't care, but if I can make their walk just a little bit easier I'll do what I can, because I've seen on here just how tough it can be! So, sadly for you, you might not get to meet these people that are rooting (and routing!) for you (because they're busy putting distance between you!) but if they're anything like me they're cheering you on and wish you well in your endeavours

What's more important, is that your husband is on board. It's great that he's helping you out, and is beginning to understand the problem. So many, on this forum too, have no support from their family - they say that they're 'babying' the dog, or other such nonsense. So lean on him for help. And it's great that you're reading & learning. But try to remember these things:

• It's a long process
  It's different for every dog
  You don't have to do EVERYTHING right now

So sure, pick the exercises that you think your dog ENJOYS. Pick the ones that you think benefit him most, and toss the others all out for a while. Focus on the simple things that you think you can do. "Set up for Success" counts for you as well as for your dog. If you wind down your regime a bit, pick just 1 thing to accomplish that week, or month, then you'll have a much better chance of having succeeded at it by the end of that week, or month. And success breeds more success - pick an new thing for the next month and suddenly you have 2 successes! 2 things that have gone right, rather than a giant list of half done things because the next thing always seems more important.

Finally, look after yourself. We're back to the original point here, we need you to relax, and feel abit more confident about everything So how is Joker at being left alone or with other people? Arrange a dog sitter if need be, but go out and SEE those people you feel isolated from. Go out for drinks / cakes / icecream. Talk about THEM rather than Joker, and reconnect. You'll feel better for building your network of support back up, and having a little break will help you clear your head and be ready for the next challenge

I'm sure someone with more experience with me will be able to help you with a plan to get back on track, and to start to see some progress, but first and foremost look after yourself

We're all rooting for you & Joker!

[emmabeth]

Excellent advice from Ari and Minkee.

You HAVE made progress - although it doesn't feel like it right now, you really really have.

You are FAR more aware of his body language and how his environment affects him. You are far more aware of his threshold and also how the environment might reduce or increase that.

Please please please give yourself a break, I still think you are trying to achieve too much/too fast and realllly, believe us, as Minkee says, you DON'T have to achieve everything at once, or deal with everything RIGHT NOW.

I would sit down and write out all the activities you do with him, and split them up into things that he finds REALLY hard/stressful, things that he finds a bit hard/stressful, but very enjoyable, and things he finds super easy and relaxing.

If I did this for Rocky, then, it might look a bit like this:

Walk at 5pm round the playing fields = EXTREMELY HARD
Walk at 12 noon around the playing fields = hard but enjoyable
Clicker training at home = stressful but EXTREMELY rewarding
Chasing the ball on an empty field = very very rewarding, hardly stressful at all.
Sleeping on the sofa = lovely, not stressful at all.


So, I avoid the walk at 5pm, and certainly if we HAVE to do that, we go armed with high value treats and we do not do it more than once in a week. Walking around the playing fields at 12 noon is easier (rarely any dogs around then) so we might do that more often, but IF we meet another dog and it sets him off, we give it a miss for a few days. Clicker training at home we do most days unless he has had a particularly bad incident thats wound him up. Chasing the ball we do whenever we can (but not too much as he's an old boy now) and sleeping on the sofa obviously he does every day!

Now that you have access to somewhere to take him off lead, and you evidently have the control to recall him if there are other dogs/if hes being a pain then you can take him there every day and allow him to meet other dogs or not depending on how stressed he is.

You could do some of your on leash training there if you wanted to - keep it fun and easy so he looks forwards to it, and I would use a long line rather than a short lead so he doesn't feel trapped.

The most important thing I want to remind you is - taking time off, skipping a walk for a day or two when he is stressed is a GOOD THING. Do this more - less really IS more at times, particularly with a dog so highly strung as yours. You are not going to make things worse by avoiding a walk at busy times or cutting a walk short because its getting too much, really and truly!

[jacksdad]

The most important thing I want to remind you is - taking time off, skipping a walk for a day or two when he is stressed is a GOOD THING. Do this more - less really IS more at times, particularly with a dog so highly strung as yours. You are not going to make things worse by avoiding a walk at busy times or cutting a walk short because its getting too much, really and truly!

Boy have I learned this the hard way. It is really easy to forget this when things appear to be going right and it's JUST as critical in that situation as it is when things are going "wrong".