Leash reactivity in my rescue dog. ALL help appreciated!

[Fantastic Fred's Mum]

Hello there!

I am new to this forum, and have joined in order to seek out positivity based advice for our dog, Fantastic Fred (he is on Facebook if you want to admire his SuperEars!).

We rehomed Fred (Malinois/GSDx, apparently!) 4 months ago. He was removed from his previous home as his owners had drink problems, did not walk him, and his main experiences of the world beyond his "den" was in a shared garden where he was too rambunctious for the elderly neighbours.

Fred was 8 months old when we adopted him (he has just turned 1 year old, and is now neutered), and seemed never to have been on a lead (or not much, definitely). To my (untrained!) eye, I feel he may not have experienced vital dog and human socialisation in his early life. He was very anxious for the first week or so, and excessively submissive and frightened (though that's fairly common when rehomed).

He is now a somewhat more confident chap, but still nervous of certain things.

As I am his chief walk/training/food provider (or Chief Of Staff, as he puts it!), he follows me everywhere indoors. He will take himself off to snooze in another room, but when I get up to do something, he is right by my side again. I have trained him to stay outside a door when I enter a room, but he is not happy to be closed in a room without me, and makes his voice heard. I always wait until he is quiet before I re-enter. A definite case of separation anxiety which we also need to address.

Whether it be nature or nurture, Fred seems to me to be a very friendly dog, trapped inside an anxious body! He is nervous of strangers in our home, but only for a minute or so until he has had a sniff (moving towards them but quickly away to stay feeling safe..then repeat...), made sure they are no threat, and then he is affectionate and playful.

My main problem is on my leash walks with Fred. I walk him first thing in the morning for 1.5 miles, the same again mid afternoon, and a 10-20 minute one before bed. I weekly meet up with a friend with other dogs for a forest walk (off-lead). On these Fred is very sociable, though in my opinion his enthusiasm to meet and greet other dogs we meet is a little overwhelming for some dogs/people. He can however read the sign that a dog does not like him, submits and leaves them alone, but will play with joy with any dog that seems friendly.

On lead is a COMPLETELY different scenario! As soon as he sees/smells another dog, HOWEVER far away he may be, he is tense, alert and within nano seconds thrashing, barking, screaming to get to them, no matter how far from him they may be. I work on the basis that a loose lead relaxes him, and it does, but when he tenses up and begins to move forward, the lead goes tight, which obviously will be adding to his tension. HOW on earth do I maintain a relaxed leash sensation for him when he is trying to drag me towards a dog/person, like a thrashing stallion?! I can immediately change direction and walk away, but I am having to drag him, still going MENTAL behind me! And if you turn round and there is a dog coming the OTHER way... ! On one occasion when I spotted dogs that Fred had already met and liked and because he was particularly calm at that moment, I took him to them on lead and he just went into the usual sniff routine- no aggression, but his lunging/squealing/barking etc. before he reaches other dogs looks like he is going to eat EVERYBODY!

He is currently getting over his propensity to chase passing cars on the lead and do the lunge/thrash at people, and this has been achieved by me relaxing, looking into the middle distance, and walking like I OWN him and EVERYTHING around him (plus food rewards once the car or person passes if he hasn't reacted). However, he is by no means relaxed enough yet on the lead to stay calm with these things 100% of the time. I am inwardly constantly battling my need to trust him not to react in spite of his past behaviour, with my need to keep him and all those around us safe. I am winning this battle, but boy, it is mentally tiring!)

Fred does seem to have a high chase drive, and is very alert to the slightest movement of leaves etc. (though this is improving- he seems to instinctively go to launch, and then checks himself, stops and relaxes).

I feel that all these things are related to his anxiety and nervousness. Our night time walks when it is quiet can be amazing, as he has learnt to heel (for cheese rewards which I am phasing out) and if the leash gets tense it is because he is walking, relaxed, BEHIND me!

I appreciate that it is still early days, as 4 months is not long, but I would also very much appreciate any methods that anyone can recommend to slowly, day by day teach Fred that dogs are a good thing. At the moment Fred spots a dog, I have tried to waft some beloved cheese under his nose, but he will already be so fixated on the dog that he doesn't seem to care about the cheese!

Indoors he is very submissive to me, and I need do no more than lower my tone of voice (I never shout) and he goes into apology mode. I train him to sit when on the lead during our walks, which he does, but all this goes out the window the moment he sees dogs.

Sorry this is so long-winded.

Any advice is much appreciated, and it's great to know that there are educated, positive reinforcement/leadership enthusiasts out there with whom I can share my difficulties.

Best wishes.

[jacksdad]

Thanks for the long post, details really help. And good job taking him on and being perceptive enough to realize the underlying issues is anxiety. Many people have a hard time accepting or wrapping their head around the idea their dog is experiencing fear, anxiety, or stress as the root cause verse trying to be “alpha”.

It sounds like you have a couple issues here, a touch of Separation Anxiety and on leash reactivity.

Let’s start with the on leash reactivity. The generally accepted reason for leash reactivity is the dog already feeling low confident, fearful or anxious feels trapped on leash and can’t at will move away from the thing that scares them or causes anxiety.

The absolutely first thing we generally recommend is to give your dog and yourself a break by doing your best to avoid dogs or whatever is his trigger. Trigger being a generic term to label what causes him to “flip out” on leash. It might take a bit of effort, adjusting when you go on walk, where you go on walk etc, BUT the effort is well worth it. The idea behind this is every time your dog encounters it’s trigger, then reacts he gets better at it. The better at it he becomes, the more likely this will be his default behavior while on leash when encountering dogs. So we want to break that cycle. If he does not encounter any dogs, then he can’t flip out. Then there is also the stress hormones that get built up each time he encounters dogs. The more anxious and stressed your dog is, the less receptive to training he will be. Example, waving cheese under his nose and no response. So, a break allows your dog to calm down and it lets you relax too. I recommend two weeks no other dogs period or as close as you can be to that. If you can, more time is better. But try to give it no less than a week.

While you are trying to give your dog a break, start paying attention to him, see if you can pick up any early signals he is “winding” up because a dog has been spotted. Things like ears going on alert, body stiffening, hackles going up, maybe some low level vocalizations. Make rough note of how close you were when he started getting worked up, or not. What you want to work out is how far you need to be and your dog NOT react. Your dog will respond best to changing his association towards other dogs while on leash IF you work below threshold. Threshold being the “line” between calm and reaction. If you don’t “cross the line” dog stays calm or calmer than if you cross “the line”, which is when the dog “flips out”. The break also helps sometimes establishing this “line”. It wasn’t until I took this step did my dog go from flip out any dog any distance to “suddenly” dogs need to be “closer” than before we took a break from other dogs. It still took a bit of time(in our case a few weeks) to really get that line worked out, but before we took the break he was just getting worse. It was like beating my head against a brick wall. The reason, he was in a constant state of stress because I was not giving him as much distance and breaks from dogs as he needed. I thought I was doing it right, but I wasn’t.

Once you have a basic idea the distance you need for your dog to not react to other dogs, do your best to keep that distance. When your dog looks at the other dog and does not flip out, give him a yummy reward and or chance to play with a special toy. Then quickly, calmly move for more distance. Over time what happens is your dog begins to associate dog = good things. See dog, turn to my person and get something wonderful. How long does this take. It all depends on the dog and how much you can stay under threshold. More you are able to work under threshold; the “faster” this will go.

If you find yourself over threshold as sometimes will happen, after all we live in the real world and not in a fairytale where everything goes perfect, don’t try and “train” your way out. Just go for distance. You can try offering a few treats as you go, after all a dog eating out of your hand can’t bark, lunge, or otherwise “flip out”. Don’t worry about “rewarding” the “wrong” thing in this situation, the alternative of the dog flipping out is much more damaging to your goal.

I am not entirely sure what you mean when you make statements like…
“I have trained him to stay outside a door when I enter a room”
“Walking like I OWN him and Everything around him….”

There is a lot of frankly silly ideas about how we need to conduct ourselves around our dogs. Ideas such as “you need to be alpha” for your dog. I apologize if that is not what you were getting at, but it does sound a bit like it. Our dogs don’t need us to be “alphas”, but they do need us to communicate clearly what is expected from them AND dogs like yours need something else. A “body guard”. It’s very good that you are trying to be relaxed when you’re out with him. Letting your own fears and stress get the better of you doesn’t help. Dogs can pickup on our bodies getting “stiff” or us holding our breath or even the change in our smells as fear and stress hormones kick in. So being relaxed is important, and our bodies being “floppy” and “loose” and easy breathing and talking in a happy calm voice will do you much better than trying to “walk like I OWN him or everything around him”. The other thing that will help A LOT is being his “body guard”. This simply is seeing the dogs before him, making the effort to turn away and go another direction. Or when someone says “can my dog say hi” you say “NO” and put your body between the dogs so you dog doesn’t have to deal with the other dog. Things like that. Right now your dog doesn’t have the capacity to deal with other dogs while on leash, so that is YOUR job.

Ok, that should get you started. I don’t overwhelm you with info overload, but do feel free to ask questions, particularly if something isn’t making sense. Or if there is something particular I didn’t cover you want to know how to address. Please, please ask. And again, this is only the start. As your dog progresses distances reduce and one day you will realize you just went an entire walk without a single incident of your dog flipping out.

Oh, one last thing...On the other dogs theme. If he already has some doggy pales that he is calm with and can be calm with on or off leash, they don’t count for the avoid dogs. It’s the dogs he doesn’t know that you want to avoid. And for now, don’t worry about any theoretical benefit to meeting other dogs. Right now his “socialization” priority is calm in the presents of other dogs at a safe distance. That is your “step 1” priority.

[Ari_RR]

Not really an expert, I just would like to pass along a small practical advice (which I received on this forum, thanks, Nettle) - if there is no way to turn around and you have no choice but to pass another dog, try to do this dog-person-person-dog, with 2 people between 2 dogs.

I see from time to time the opposite, person-dog-dog-person... 2 dogs lunging at each other, and 2 owners trying to pull them in different directions. This is probably as stressful as such encounter can get for reactive dogs.

Cheers
Eugene

[emmabeth]

in addition to the other posts... even if it is not always fear, as in your dogs case there could well be an element of frustration, it is better to handle the issue as if it is always fear. If you get it wrong, and treat for 'bad behaviour' or 'frustration' and it IS fear, you can do a lot of harm. Whereas if you treat for fear and it isn't, no real harm done y ou just take a little longer to get the results.

I would say that whether his behaviour is fear or frustration or a mix of both, his reaction is going to mean a LOT of dogs will react badly when he finally arrives, his behaviour putting them on edge and on the defensive straight away.

On top of the advise to avoid until his stress levels drop, and then find the distance at which you CAN work with him, I would also work on self control - check out our articles section for the 'Its Yer Choice' thread for the basics on how to start teaching a dog self control.

[Fantastic Fred's Mum]

Jacksdad! Thank you so much for your advice and direction, it is very comforting to remember that you are not alone in a situation!

I read your reply prior to going out this morning for our walk, and felt empowered. Thank you for that. I left just after 9am, as many people have finished walking their dogs by then (I am self-employed), and of course there was a dog on it's walk at the bottom of the road! However, as it was a crossroads, I was able to continue on my merry way, with Fred all bristled and bouncing, but not to the lunging, barking stage. A good start.. topped with cheese!

I live in a small town, and in my neighbourhood there are lots of dogs. Unfortuantely there are two dogs on my usual return route that occasionally just mill about the streets, unattended (one friendly, the other of unknown character!). Today we ended up halfway down the road, with "friendly" male dog (called Torran) coming towards us at a distance from behind, and "unknown" Lhasa Apso in front of us on the verge going to the loo! Obviously this was all too much for Fred, so his anxieties got the better of him and the frenzy began. In this situation, I didn't really know what to do, torn between the idea that I must keep him moving, but also that I couldn't. I did get him to sit at first, but he was whining nervously to do this for me, and so I just got him moving round in circles until Torran trotted off and I could go back the way I came and take a different route home to avoid the "unknown". Do you know of a better thing to do in an unusual situation such as this or was I right to do what I did? Torran (an incredibly handsome and regal looking male Golden Retriever) is owned by an old gentleman who I think may struggle to be able to walk him, hence him being left to his own devices (all WRONG for the poor dog, in my opinion, and I believe perhaps illegal but at least Torran is getting exercise!!). I had considered visiting the gentleman to ask him if Torran has a timetable of being let out to roam the roads, at least so that I could avoid these times! However, as an animal lover, I would not want to prevent Torran from getting fresh air and exercise at all, even if it is exercise that I feel is not necessarily healthy for him (i.e. getting hit by a car!).

On my walks with Fred, he is seldom out of alert mode, though his success in now looking to me when a car comes instead of launching at it has proved to me that he has the capacity to overcome his fears, which gives me complete faith in his future being a happy, relaxed one. I sort of know his body language now, and his ears are pretty much always on alert (though this is improving slowly) except on our night walks when the world is quiet. As he is so alert, I kind of have to keep walking even with him like this, as otherwise we would both be dizzy from constantly going round in circles!

I have had a dog behaviourist come to help me, and much of what she said and did has helped, but she also recommended noise distraction, plus treats. So I started taking a bottle of stones to shake loudly as a diversion whenever Fred "launched", and this worked at first, but my instinct was that I was frightening an already fearful animal! It saved him from going under a car once, but within a week he was used to the stones, and deaf to them! I admit to almost being pleased, as my gut was telling me that although this might be an immediately successful, it was not a long term solution to helping Fred relax and feel calm. Thanks, but no thanks.

When I said I walked like I OWN everything around us, I meant that I have learnt to walk upright in a confident manner, so I apologise that I didn't explain that properly. A couple of months ago Fred crashed into me during an off lead play-fest, I broke my ankle, and then a week later i fell off my crutches and badly broke my wrist!! It's hilarious in retrospect, and something Basil Fawlty would have been proud of!! I realised that once out of my leg plaster, but still in my wrist one, I was walking Fred like I was a fragile old lady (which is how I felt!), and that he would have sensed my unease and discomfort, so took charge. I was the worst "bodyguard" in the world if you judge it on body language (which Fred, of course, DOES!!) Hence my now walking like the most unfazed, confident woman alive. However, from what you have said, I think that I have maybe taken this too far towards a Liam Gallagher style demeanour (funny for spectators) and that I am not necessarily giving off loose, relaxation vibes to the emotional sponge at the end of the lead! Thank you for reminding me to RELAX!

I would also like to say how much I appreciate your suggestion that I need not initially worry about rewarding bad behaviour when it comes to other dogs, as this had really stumped me (I have read so MUCH in my efforts to help Fred, and there is never any mention of this) What you have said makes perfect sense to me, and again I feel empowered that once I have increased the distance between Fred and whatever is triggering him, I can reward him for simply coming with me, even if he is still tense (I hope I have understood this correctly!?!). This tiny morsel of information is, I believe, HUGE, as I had no idea how to begin at the very bottom rung and intruduce a dog=reward concept to Fred. Thanks so much.

Regarding his separation anxiety, basically he follows me EVERYWHERE! I can now go to the toilet and get him to stay outside the door, whereas before he had to come in with me! (so much for a girls privacy!! ). However, if I make a move towards the front door he is immediately excited/nervous. I have begun to close the living room door when I go to make a cuppa. At first he stands on his hind legs scratching manically at the door, but after a few minutes he lies right at the door, with intermittent whimpering, awaiting my return. For now, leaving him alone in the house is a step too far and too soon I think, as we went out once for my partners birthday party, and came back to all the paint missing at the bottom of the bedroom door! I do have a dog crate from our last dog, but my instinct tells me that Fred's anxious nature would only be heightened with tight enclosure. Paint on a door is just.. paint on a door- we are not precious about our belongings having "accidents" and would never punish for this, but what we are precious about is that his destruction on that one evening meant he was in a stressed state. I have a lovely neighbour who kept me informed of the sounds she could hear, and apparently he barked at first, but then went into crying mode (with times of silence, though that was probably when he was attempting to create a new Fred-Flap in the door!!). So it's starting from scratch with this, which (PLEASE correct me if I am wrong) means shutting him alone in a room for 10 seconds, then re-entering when he is quiet, then 20 seconds, then.... The thing I am unclear about is that, when I re-enter the room, do I a) ignore Fred for the first minute or so, in order to not create a "fuss" that he will anticipate when I come in and therefore possibly begin to get excited about my return in advance, or b) reward and praise Fred for having been in a room and been quiet? Confused.com!!

Oh, another thing. I have been told to stay quiet on my walks, and not speak to Fred. Would you recommend this, or should I be quietly singing a happy tune (I am a musician and I could really use the practice!!) or happily chatting to an invisible friend as we walk, as some books recommend?

Well, yet again I have written a verbose post.. doh!

Best wishes, and thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my last post.

[Fantastic Fred's Mum]

Thanks Eugene for the top tip re. occasions when I have no option but to pass a dog being walked. It is very difficult to stay between Fred and the object of his anxiety, as he lunges and is very strong and "leggy"! The only option to achieve this is to have a very short leash as I walk past the other dog in order, which will stress Fred more, but in these eventualities (which I shall endeavour to avoid for now) it may be the only way to pass them.

Thanks for that, all suggestions are MUCH appreciated!

[Fantastic Fred's Mum]

Thank you Emmabeth for the impulse control vid! I watched it this morning, and within 5 minutes Fred was lying down with a treat on each paw, which is a good start! I shall get into the routine of daily practice of this with him, building up to walking past the food in order to help him learn that restraint equals reward, and that he should look to me for said reward. In time this may help with him looking to me on the walk even when there is something that worries him in the vicinity. This is a terrific, intelligent and positive forum, and I am so pleased I have found it. Thank you.

[Ari_RR]

Very nice. Good luck, looking forward to updates. By the way... those ears... are just awesome!!

[jacksdad]

Jacksdad! Thank you so much for your advice and direction, it is very comforting to remember that you are not alone in a situation!

No, not alone. In addition to my self, there are several people here who are or have worked through exactly what you have come looking for help with.

I live in a small town, and in my neighborhood there are lots of dogs.

I hear you. Until I tried to 100% avoid dogs, I had not ever really realized just how man dogs are not just in my neighborhood, but the town I live in. Like you I live in a pretty small town. But where there is a will, there is way. Just think creative. take walks at different times, different places, location where people don't tend to take dogs etc. Bad weather is great walking time as most people are wimps about the rain or even a bit later in the evening or earlier in the morning are also great time to take a reactive dog out.

Unfortuantely there are two dogs on my usual return route that occasionally just mill about the streets, unattended (one friendly, the other of unknown character!). Today we ended up halfway down the road, with "friendly" male dog (called Torran) coming towards us at a distance from behind, and "unknown" Lhasa Apso in front of us on the verge going to the loo! Obviously this was all too much for Fred, so his anxieties got the better of him and the frenzy began. In this situation, I didn't really know what to do, torn between the idea that I must keep him moving, but also that I couldn't.

These are those no win situations life throws at us. your going to have to experiment with Fred a bit to know for sure, but if it had been me I would have tried to pass the Lhasa Apso and just get the heck out of there. Here is the thoughts behind it. Lhasa Apso is smaller than Fred so in theory he would feel less fear/stress from a smaller dog and if the Lhasa Apso was closer to you than Torran, then you would have gotten out of the "danger zone" quicker. I would have put Fred on one side of my, opposite of the Lhasa Apso, then did my best to keep a steady stream of treats going to him no matter how he reacted as we approached, passed and for just a brief moment after passing. them moved off as calmly as possible.

On the other hand if Fred and Torran know and are ok with each other, same idea. Stay between Fred and Torran, stream of treats as you pass closer to Torran.

This situation is one of many examples of why we advise assume fear when in doubt. You can't reinforce/reward fear. so when you are giving him that steady stream of treats as you pass closer than he can handle to his trigger you are giving him something else to focus on, the treats coming from you, rather than that dog over there that will just get him worked up. The treats make him feel good, and while not under optimal conditions, it still contributes towards Dog predicts something good, treats and treats make me feel good, when I see dogs I feel good because I just focus on my person and earn treats. which is also building an alternate behavior. rather than look at dog and get worked up, turn and look at you and get something wonderful.

I did get him to sit at first, but he was whining nervously to do this for me, and so I just got him moving round in circles until Torran trotted off and I could go back the way I came and take a different route home to avoid the "unknown". Do you know of a better thing to do in an unusual situation such as this or was I right to do what I did?

I am not a fan of asking a dog to sit in the face of something stressful. keep him moving, preferable away from what is causing stress and anxiety or fear. Sometimes life just puts you in a no win. Others may disagree, but I feel that sometimes just taking the "hit" and have your dog react for 30 seconds as you pass the dog and move out of the area is better (or more accurately the lesser of two evils) than hanging around with your dog over threshold and getting REALLY worked up.

I have had a dog behaviourist come to help me, and much of what she said and did has helped, but she also recommended noise distraction, plus treats. So I started taking a bottle of stones to shake loudly as a diversion whenever Fred "launched", and this worked at first, but my instinct was that I was frightening an already fearful animal! It saved him from going under a car once, but within a week he was used to the stones, and deaf to them! I admit to almost being pleased, as my gut was telling me that although this might be an immediately successful, it was not a long term solution to helping Fred relax and feel calm. Thanks, but no thanks.

*Sigh*. The advice to use noise distractions, particularly stones in a bottle was VERY amateur and wrong advice. I am very sorry you spent good money on that advice. Your instincts are spot on. Best case your dog just tunes it out and it does no good. Worst case you make things worse by scaring an already scared dog and as if that wasn't already bad enough, if he figures out your the source.... you ruin any trust and damage any sense of safety the dog may have in you. either way, there is no value to this. if you haven't already dropped it, feel free to. your dog will thank you.

Little side story for you, there is worse advice given out there. I was advised to put a prong collar on my small dog (16 pounds) and pull up on the leash putting pressure of the prongs on his neck in a way that also cuts off his air supply when ever he reacted to another dog. Needless to say, I found someone else to help me and pledged to my self I was going to learn how to help fearful dogs and spread the word that stuff like this is a bunch of BS and does more damage to the dog than helps.

When I said I walked like I OWN everything around us, I meant that I have learnt to walk upright in a confident manner, so I apologize that I didn't explain that properly.

Not a problem. I was just concerned someone had advised you to "be alpha". Trust me, when your dog is "flipping out" he isn't impressed with a human conceived idea of what a human trying to be dog alpha looks like. if he wasn't so scared or stressed, he would probably be rolling on the ground laughing at any human attempt to be a dog. trying to be "alpha" for our dogs is a wast of time and energy. there are far, far more constructive ways to communicate, bond with and instruct our dogs what is expected than trying to be "alpha". Particularly since much of what people think "alpha" means is just plan made up and has no bases in fact, the rest is based on some faulty studies done post WW2 that have long since been dis proven, but the word is slow trickling down to the "man on the street". Including many "trainers".

If is far more important in your projection of confidence is more of a "I am unconcerned and unimpressed with you" and be "loose" and not stiff in your body movements. rather than stiff and I am ready to kick your @55 at the drop of the hat, take on the whole world, ready to do battle kind of way. when dogs go stiff when they are concerned about a threat. walking around stiff and ready to kick @55 puts your body into a more stiff posture which would send off the wrong "confidence signal". Dogs aren't typically "chatty" and the human stream of "noise" is often unhelpful. BUT if it helps you be calm, and breath feel free to sign, chat away etc. it is far better for you to be relaxed and breathing in a relaxed state verses being tense, stiff and holding your breath. All signals your dog will see as "be worried" or "be on alert"

I would also like to say how much I appreciate your suggestion that I need not initially worry about rewarding bad behavior when it comes to other dogs, as this had really stumped me.

So the first thing to keep in mind is your dog isn't displaying "bad" behavior, he is displaying undesirable behavior. This distinction goes to your mind set. your dog is scared or stressed and reacting technically correctly for those feelings and emotions. But they are often out of proportion to what the real "threat" level is. they are a over reaction a lot of the time and an over the top one at that. By changing your mind set away from the idea he is being "bad" you stop viewing things as needing to be "corrected" or "punished" to your dog needs your help, and to be rehabilitated, you are less likely to do something harmful, even unintentional . If you treat a fearful dog as needing to be "punished" or "corrected" or being "bad" you risk making things worse. Which is why we advise assume fear when in doubt. how you address a fearful dog has more in common with how you would address a dog who is over excited in a happy way, has impulse control and frustration at not getting to play like a puppy with ever dog he see than in reverse. you would do things to address the non fearful dog that would actually make things worse for a fearful dog, but a chunk of what you do for a fearful dog is also what you would do for the non fearful one. make sense?

once I have increased the distance between Fred and whatever is triggering him, I can reward him for simply coming with me, even if he is still tense (I hope I have understood this correctly!?!). This tiny morsel of information is, I believe, HUGE, as I had no idea how to begin at the very bottom rung and intruduce a dog=reward concept to Fred. Thanks so much.

Yes, that is the ideal. Ideal is to stay below threshold, and reward calm interest and calm turning way and focusing on when other dogs are around but you and your dog are at a safe distance. that is the idea and that is the conditions that your dog will learn the best, and quickest.

If your dog isn't coming from a fear place, then it is possible to be rewarding and reinforcing the wrong behavior. BUT don't worry too much, that is SOOO much easier to fix than having a fearful dog and doing the wrong thing and making the fear worse and having to undo that. So, if you do "reward" your dog when it's not 100% calm, for the time don't sweat it. if you realize your too close, move for distance. start over, or just keep moving.

Regarding his separation anxiety, basically he follows me EVERYWHERE! I can now go to the toilet and get him to stay outside the door, whereas before he had to come in with me! (so much for a girls privacy!! ).

LOL I love it, good for you letting him be near you even when going to the toilet. It just creeps my wife out that my dog will sometimes need to check on where I am, even when I go to the toilet. if he helps him, I am ok with it.

Just like with the reactiveness on leash, working with your dog's SA will be about doing your best to NOT trigger the anxiety. You will also need to work on your "predictors" of leaving.

One thing you can do is to just let him follow you around as you go about your day at home. if your doing house work or you literally work from home, just ignore him while you go about your work. if he follows you, he follows you, but by being "boring" he might just lose interest and go off and do something else by him self. BUT that separation was HIS choice. which is always better than when you make the choice for him.

Dogs are really good at picking up on our signals we are about to leave the house. most people have a routine they follow as they get ready to leave, the order the put on their shoes, coat, grab purse or wallet, keys (that make noise) etc. pay attention to what you do to get ready to leave. then randomly throughout the day pickup your keys and then go sit down read a book for a little while. or put on your coat, go make tea, then take your coat off and enjoy your tea. things like that so your leaving predictors become less a predictive.

When you actively work on him being by himself, either by you leaving the house briefly or shutting him in a room briefly. The key is starting off with walking out the door, closing it, opening it and coming back in. that brief. when you do that, combined it with a kong stuffed with some really yummy treats. so it would be give dog a yummy stuffed kong, walk out the door, close it, turn around come back in and just go about your business. This builds a more positive association with you leaving and by starting with just literally a second gone and then return then maybe 2 seconds, then 5 , then 10, then 1 seconds your dog doesn't get a chance to start getting worked up. If you notices he is getting worked up, then take it back down to the time frame he wasn't getting worked up with. also you may need to work a day or two at 1 second before going to 2 seconds or progressing from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. It's been a while since I have really dived in to SA issues, but if memory serves 15 minutes is kind a "magic" point for most dogs. when you finally make to 15 minutes things progress a bit faster. Provided you don't move faster than your dog is able to cope. So for example it might take 2 months to get to 15 minutes being out of sight and your dog to remain calm, but going from 15min to 1 hour sometimes takes half that time. No promises, each dog is different, and you can only move as fast as your dog is able to cope. But the point is to not get discouraged in the early stages of addressing his SA if it feels like it is taking forever to make any "useful" progress.

Crates can be helpful in preventing destruction around the house, but ONLY if your dog already has a good association with being in a crate and see's his crate as a safe and pleasant place to wait for you. So kudos to you for being cautious about this. If you want to use a crate to prevent destruction, make sure your dog is really, really comfortable in a crate and feels safe and secure and relaxed there and is ok with the door close with you in the room proceed to you leaving the room etc. when in doubt, error on the side of caution, and build up the crate from square one if in doubt before using it to house him when you leave the house to prevent damage.

[Fantastic Fred's Mum]

Thank you so much, Jacksdad, for your encouragement and advice. We have had some good walks together since I read your ideas. Last night was a lovely quiet walk, and even a distant dog walking towards us was not an issue as we simply took a different route (munching cheese!). We could have done without two dogs escaping their garden and running at us, which obviously frightened Fred, but although he was lunging and barking, his bark only made it to the warning sound stage, (not to the frenzied panicy bark) before we were able to get out of range.

I am working on the principle that Fred is indeed suffering from fear anxiety. Everything points to this. It really has helped my perception of my duty to him to see that this dog really DOES need a bodyguard to whom he can entrust his safety (our last GSD was ex-Police, ex-guard dog, and a VERY different animal!!). I have 100% commitment to being that protector, and having this benevolent mindset when we leave the house for a walk really helps.

Thank you.

PS. Thank you also to Eugene for appreciating Fred's ears on his FB page- he says you are very perceptive, for a human.

[Ari_RR]

On the subject of separation anxiety. Not sure if I want to formulate an advice, maybe this approach is not for every dog, or has some flaws.. Let me just share our experience.

For some reason we focused on this a bit late, when Ari was probably 6 months or maybe even older.. I don't think he had been left alone even once until then, ever. Always someone with him. But now at 14 months, we are totaly comfortable leaving him alone for the evening, and he is comfortable as well. We took the standard path - leave for a short time, associate with something positive, increase interval...

But the key for us, I think, was training him after exercising. He just doesn't have much energy for SA or anything else after a good walk or a visit to playground, which made things much easier.

This approach may help with other things also, like when you get to the point where Fred can interact with other dogs stress-free, and you focus on his good manners rather then level of stress..
Ari, for example, is not a very well mannered boy at the dog park. Which can be a bit stressful for other dogs, especially considering his size. One of the techniques we use - we take him on a walk right before we go to dog park, so by the time he gets there - he is a bit tired already and just doesn't have enough juice in him to be a bully.

So, bottom line - a tired dog is a happier dog, as they say... Also an easier to manage and train dog.

Back to SA - I am sure there are many threads on this, here's just one recent example viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13366
You may want to browse through some old topics to see what others are saying, or just to remind yourself that you are in good company when things don't go very well

Cheers
Eugene