Urgent - need help!!!!!

[Abbodupi]

We have a 5 year old Cockapoo (Boo) and a 3 year old Beagle (Libby) - both females. We brought Libby home when she was 8 weeks old and Boo raised her. They play together, sleep together...practically do everything together....Life has been good until this week. Boo has viciously attacked Libby on 3 ocasions, and she will not let go. Libby has not fought back and has gotten puncture wounds on her nose and her ear and her neck. After the third attack, we put a muzzle on Boo when they are together, otherwise we keep one shut in a bedroom while the other has the run of the house, we switch off, so the same one isn't always shut out. I know we have to try to bring them together again without the muzzle, but I'm terrified to try. I feel I can't trust Boo right now because I don't know what caused her to attack. I feel this may all be my fault as I tended to pay more attention to Libby because she likes to cuddle more, Boo has always been the alpha dog, and has always put Libby in her place by a "look" or by standing over her, Libby has always been submissive to her and it's never been a problem. I guess I haven't noticed if Libby is trying to be the alpha dog. How do we go about getting them to get along again, this is so stressful on us and the dogs. I feel sick to my stomach and I'm scared that Boo will do some major damage to Libby, physically or psychologically. I also worry about Boo wearing a muzzle most of the time as she seems......depressed. Please help, we don't have a clue how to handle this!

[Abbodupi]

I just read the post about posting and I guess I should give more background information. We live in a small city, there are no dog parks. We have lots of people who walk their dogs down our street, and our dogs bark at them every time. We have a nice size backyard that is fenced in, the dogs have a doggy door so they can go outside whenever they want to. Boo weighs 18 lbs. and Libby is 28 lbs. They get fed twice a day 1/3 cup each of Earthborn dog food, at 7:30 AM and 5:30 PM. They do get some bits of people food sometimes mainly meat and vegetables, sometimes popcorn. Treats consist of dog biscuits right before bedtime and raw vegetables occasionally, carrots and red peppers are their favorites. Boo is aggressive toward big dogs, always has been. Lots of big dogs in the neighborhood. We don't go on many walks due to the big dogs, I've seen several that are not on leashes and I'm afraid Boo will agress toward them and they will respond back and she's much smaller. Both dogs sleep in our beds. Libby often will catch the scent of something (rabbits?) in our backyard at night and will howl like only a Beagle can, we then have to get her in the house and shut the doggy door. Both dogs know a few commands like, sit, stay, down, off, shake, kiss, speak, and was working with Libby on roll over. Boo does pretty good with "come", but Libby wants no part of it, even with a treat. Libby has gotten loose a few times (guests who don't get in the door fast enough) and we've had to follow her 3-4 blocks through backyards, she is "nose to the ground" and could care less about treats. Both dogs are excellent with children, my partner often cares for a 4 year old and a one year old, and the dogs are wonderful with them. When I'm watching TV, I like to give the dogs massages and scratch them all over, then they settle down beside me on the couch and sleep. Several times a year we take to dogs up to the lake (my Mom's place) where it's all wooded and we are at the end of the road. Boo gets to run off leash, Libby has to be tied because she takes off into the woods and doesn't come back. I hope this is enough additional information.

[Ari_RR]

Hello, there! Experts will be here shortly and will advise.. In the meantime - I would keep them separate until some sort of a plan is developed on how to move forward. Our dog once was attacked by a neighbor dog. We would have loved to somehow turn them into friends so they could play with each other. But the "majority opinion" here was to avoid contact, and we followed this advice.. Better safe then sorry, dogs can cause serious injury to each other, and sometimes it's hard to pinpoint what sets them off..

Best
Eugene

[Jindo]

It may be because they're both female but I can't be sure..
Exactly what is the situation when Boo attacks? When they are eating? Walking? Just sitting around? Etc.
When you do feed them, do you feed them together or separately?
You should walk your dogs and take them out to exercise more often because dogs tend to get more anxious and have all sorts of strange behaviors if not exercised properly.

[VET_BEHAVIOUR]

If this is a sudden change in behaviour, it is always recommended to get each of them checked out at the vet to check there is no underlying illness before doing anything else. I suggest you take them separately as problems could be worse in foreign environments. Good luck

[Abbodupi]

Thanks everyone for your advice. Libby eats in the kitchen and Boo eats in the livingroom, it's never been a problem. The first attack came when I was playing with Libby with one of the dog toys. Boo latched onto Libby's neck and wouldn't let go, we got them apart and Boo charged at Libby again and bit down on Libby's nose and wouldn't let go. Later that same night, when we thought it was over and both dogs were sleeping in the same bed, Boo once again attacked Libby. It sounds so vicious, I can't believe it's our dog. We separated them for the night and then they were good for two days. the third attack came when we were sitting on the couch eating popcorn (like a million other times) and Boo was sitting on one end of the couch and Libby was sleeping under a blanket on the other end of the couch, we were sitting in between with the bowl of popcorn between us. Everything was fine until Libby woke up and came out from under the blanket. Boo got off the couch and came to Libby and seemed to be just sniffing her ear canal (like so many times before) and all of a sudden she grabbed her ear in her mouth and attacked her. Libby was yelping and howling and I grabbed Boo by the back legs to pull her away and my partner grabbed Libby, but Boo would not let go, in fact seemed to get more vicious. We had to pry Libby's ear out of Boo's mouth and after we got them separated, Boo tried attacking again and we had to hold her back, she seemed like she wanted to kill Libby. Before each attack everything was fine. We've ran a million reasons though our brains and still don't have a clue what provoked the attacks. The dogs are still separated (or muzzled), and we all hate it! Libby cries a lot, I know she is missing playing and sleeping with Boo. However, she is also scared and won't come in the same room as Boo. Boo, when muzzled tries to hide or just lays in one spot with her head down. It's just so sad to see these two dogs that were inseparable, both so sad. When I came home tonight and let Boo out of the bedroom,, she actually cried, and I've never heard that noise come out of her before, it's always Libby that cries (drama queen that she is). This is ripping my heart out!

[emmabeth]

I would NOT try reintroducing these two at all just now, in fact I would only have them in the same room together with the attacker muzzled and them BOTH kept completely busy (one adult human per dog) doing something rewarding and fun (And with no risk of them feeling the need to compete with one another).

Get them both to a vet and insist on a really thorough check as something about what you describe makes me think one or other of them is ill - this does need to be a really thorough check with blood tests done etc, NOT just a 30 second prod and feel over the body.

There is no real benefit to be had from trying to reintroduce them at this stage and every chance of it getting worse if you try.

[Emmaloo]

Are they both spayed? You may have said, but it's possible that that's the root of the problem-- if one isn't fixed and is maybe coming into heat or something. Good luck! If you can, do look for a trainer in your area.

[Abbodupi]

Yes - both dogs are spayed! We noticed tonight that Boo seems to always try to sniff Libby's left ear. This is also the ear that she bit and put three puncture wounds in. This has become a sign before the attack. Libby's ear looks clean and healthy (other than the scabs from the wounds now) and no odor that we can detect with our inadequate noses. What does a thorough vet check consist of? Should we ask for specific things to be done? Blood tests for anything specific????

We put them together tonight without the muzzle and we were both ready. The dogs went outside and were running in the back yard, after a few laps they came up on the deck by us and Boo went straight to Libby's ear and we intervened before anything happened - the muzzle went back on. Oddly enough, it's Boo who has had constant trouble with her ears, she gets yeast infections all the time and often will yip a little when scratching. Boo has been treated several times for yeast in her ears and for the past few weeks we have not seen any scratching and her ears haven't seemed to bother her.

[Jindo]

I agree as well about taking your dogs to a vet and explaining the situation. Don't leave a single detail out.

[minkee]

And really do keep them separated for now - it's just not worth the risk or agitation to you or your dogs.

[Emmaloo]

A little over a year ago, our beloved Maisie got a terrible middle ear infection that, at one point, we thought was going to kill her. We were completely unable to detect anything-- so, like wiser folk than I have said, have the vet check every single thing in both dogs. (Happily, a huge emergency vet bill, a solid month of incredible complicated meds that required a dosing chart, and roughly 3 years off the lives of the humans later, Maisie is healthy and happy.)

[Abbodupi]

Will definitely keep them separated - you're right it's not worth the risk. I stopped in at our vets office this morning and told him the entire situation, he seems to think it's just behavioral but understands that we want to rule out anything medical. He thinks that only the aggressor (Boo) needs the exam and bloodwork done. He said that often dogs that live together will have issues over toys, food and who gets a higher ranking with their humans. He said that Boo has demonstrated each one of those. The first time with the toy, the second with her place in the bed (humans) and the third time with food (popcorn). I've heard so many opinions about whether dogs like to be "top dog" in the household. Could that be what this is all about? Has anyone else had this happen and if so, how did it end? How do you let the dogs work it out (alpha dog thing) when it gets dangerous? Can this be fixed or will we eventually have to find a new home for one of them? (I can't wrap my mind around that possibility yet). It's very stressful living like this and it's only been a week. It seems there is a Positively trainer about an hour and a half drive from here. I'll have to see if she will come this far.

Ya know - looking back now and trying to see if there were any clues that we missed, Boo was always taking all the toys and hiding them in the bedroom (she has never played with a toy...ever, she's just never "played" at all), also when given chew bones, Boo will go hide hers and then try to take Libby's away from her, when Libby is playing in our yard with the neighbor's 1 yr. old Jack Russell terrier, Boo will herd Libby onto the deck and after Libby lies down and show's Boo her belly, Boo will stand over her and jab at her with her nose. Libby lies perfectly still and then will not play with the neighbor's dog anymore. It's as if Boo won't let her play... not with toys, not with other dogs, not with me. Another thing, Boo has always been aggressive with big dogs, I'm thinking maybe fear aggression. When we first got Boo she was 4 months old and we had a 7 year old beagle/dachshound mix (Abby), and Abby attacked Boo when Boo was little, I picked Boo up and raised her over my head because Abby was jumping up on me to get at Boo, as I was raising Boo over my head to keep her away from Abby, she was wiggling and slipped out of my grasp and literally flew all the way down the basement steps. Abby attacked Boo more than once but there were never any wounds and Abby would stop when we clapped our hands and it didn't seem as vicious. Abby died of pancreatic cancer a month after Boo's 2nd birthday and 2 weeks later we brought Libby home. Boo let Libby sleep curled up with her, she would lick her, she was great with her for 3 years (or so we thought) we didn't realize when she was taking all the toys, bones away from Libby and hiding them that it was anything to be concerned about and sometimes we'd just go get them and give them back to Libby. Oh my gosh, we could have intervened way back then, and we didn't see it. Libby always gets fed first, gets treats first only because she is right "on it" and Boo sits back and waits. We should have always let Boo be first. Okay - my mind is going a mile a minute now and I'm seeing how Boo could think that Libby is "taking her position" in the household. I really have so much to learn about dog behavior.

Emmaloo - did your dog Maisie have any behavioral issues before you learned about her inner ear infection?

[Jindo]

Haven't they been living together for 3 years already without a problem? I don't get why dominance would be a problem now. And from what you told us, Libby doesn't even fight back and seems to be submissive so I don't see why the attacks should continue.

[minkee]

If it were me, I would also want to get a full blood examination of the other dog too - the one being attacked. Dogs CAN sense when something is wrong, and something strikes me about the behaviour (especially the ear sniffing) that there might be something wrong that the aggressor can smell (sorry, I forgot the names!).

I don't really want to give any advice re: the behaviour, as it's just not something I've experienced and would rather wait for a real expert to come along! However, rather than worrying about 'Alpha Dog' things, if it IS purely behavioural, it would simply be that they have fallen out, and one has taken a disliking to the other. Sadly, if this is the case, then with bítches it can be a permanent hatred, with severe consequences (bítches WILL kill another bítch if they decide they do-not-want it there). However, like I said, it's really not something I've experience, just something I have read about.

So, all I can offer you for now is my best wishes. It must be incredibly stressful for you right now, and I wish you all the best. Sometimes the advice given on here and advice at the vets can clash, due to coming at it from opposing ends (medical knowledge vs behavioural knowledge), but stick to your guns and explore every possibility.

We're rooting for you all :)