New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

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abbyneo
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New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by abbyneo »

Hello all! I'm new to the forum, but a long time dog owner. I'll apologize in advance for the long post, but I do want to be as detailed as possible so I can get the best advice :). My fiancee and I rescued a 3 year old Boxer about five months ago. She has been happily living in our apartment, basically running the place, ever since. We live in a very dog-friendly city, so she goes everywhere with us; she goes to restaurants, for car rides, to the dog park, walks around the neighborhood, etc. For the first few months we had her, she was the only pet. She is extremely well-behaved, does not chew, bark, bite, and can hold her bladder for a ridiculous amount of time.

About 2 months ago, we decided to get Abby a kitten to keep her company while we were at work. We believe that she has had some puppies in the past because she seems to have a mothering instinct (she is spayed now, of course.). When we first brought the kitten home, it was rough. Abby was very anxious about this little creature, but it only took a few days for her to begin "mothering" the kitten, and now they get along great. She allows him to bite her face, ears, nose, everything, and takes it all in stride. I now feel no anxiety leaving them alone together as they mostly do their own thing now that they are used to each other.

Over the weekend, my fiancee and I got a female Rhodesian Ridgeback pup, 10 weeks old (Neo) . She is crate trained, which has been nice since we both work, and does already know a couple of commands. My first question is regarding further housetraining. I've never had a dog that was crate trained, so I'm wondering how to make the transition from the crate to the rest of the house, if that makes sense. I understand that crate training is based upon the idea that dogs generally do not want to make a mess in their crate because then they'd have to sleep in it. When/how do I make her understand that the rest of the house is not "outside"? She does hold it for about 5 hours max, and my fiancee does come home on his lunch break to let her out of the crate and play with her. We have been making sure to always supervise her when she's out of the crate, and watching for her signs that she needs to do her business. As soon as we see the signs, we put the leash on, say "outside" and encourage her to "go potty" in her spot outside, always rewarding her when she goes outdoors and never punishing her when she's had an accident. I think we're doing all the right things, but I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do to help her "get" that the whole apartment is "our" crate and she still needs to go outside to pee. Maybe I'm projecting thoughts on to her that dogs are not able to have, and she will get this on her own with time, I don't know! :) I have not had to housetrain a puppy, as my last dog lived outside and our Boxer was already trained.

Our Boxer, Abby, is our world. My fiancee and I truly treat her like she's our child, and we would never want to do anything that would make her unhappy or cause her stress. The puppy has definitely caused all of us a little stress, and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips to help us make everyone feel at home. Of course, I have not and will not force them to play together, as I know this can be dangerous; I let them both do their own things, and mostly they're ok with each other. Each dog also gets their own separate time with each of us, whether it's a trip to the park or some playtime outside. Sometimes Abby growls at the puppy, but I assume this is just to let her know that she's in charge. I feed them at the same time to avoid problems with food aggression, though neither has shown any signs of it. Is there anything else that I could be doing to make both dogs more comfortable?

Neo (Rhodesian pup) is overly playful with the kitten, who is a large 5 month old DSH. I can see that she's just trying to play, but she outweighs him by quite a bit at this point, and is only going to get bigger. I don't want to discourage her from playing since I know this is how puppies learn, but I obviously don't want kitten to get hurt. What we have been doing up to this point is letting her nose and lightly chase him, but watching to make sure she doesn't get too rough. If she does get rough, we tell her "no" and distract her with one of her many chew toys. When she's playing and chewing on her toys, she does get rewarded. I just don't know if this back and forth is confusing to her; should it be all or nothing (which at this point would be nothing)? Just keep them separated? I do want them both to be acclimated to each other, and have tried to do so gradually..we put kitten in "his" room when we brought the pup home so they could smell each other first, etc.

We are planning on getting her into training as soon as she is adequately vaccinated.

Last one-the puppy has the hiccups a lot--is this normal?? :) Thanks in advance!
emmabeth
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by emmabeth »

I think you are doing all the right things (and thankyou for such a detailed post! Far rather spend time reading than nagging people for extra information!!!).

Your suspicions about not being able to teach the pup that all of the apartment is also 'indoors' are pretty much correct - she will eventually learn that the ONLY appropriate place to toilet is outdoors, specifically on whatever surface is out there , be it dirt, turf, concrete etc. Then she will be in the habit of going outside and how SHE classifies all the areas indoors won't really matter!

Again, spot on about the older dog telling her to mind her manners - as long as pup isn't excessively harrassing the older dog, and the older dog isnt going over the top in her warnings, its fine. If either occurs then try to step in and stop things before they escalate and divert each dog into doin something else.

With the kitten, you will need to step in and send the puppy away - if that isn't sufficient then this is where some degree of punishment comes in, in the form of a time out.

These need to be used carefully and correctly, with either the puppy or whoever she is trying to get a rise out of leaving the room (in the kitten example it would be the pup going out, if pup was say, barking at you for attention then you leaving might be better) for JUST ten seconds. Quite literally, out of the room, shut the door, count ten, let her in, and be ready to repeat almost immediately.

Most pups will go right back to what they were doing the first few times you do this so you MUST be prepared to stay calm, and keep repeating the time out. After a few repetitions most pups get the idea that it is THEIR actions that are causing you to chuck htem out, thus ending the fun and will begin to moderate their behaviour. YOu will have to do these over and over, and probably most days until she gets older and remembers the lesson.

The other thing you MUST do is try to negate the need for any punishment or consequences as much as possible, by ensuring she is exercised physically, and mentally and has the attention she needs. Though she can't start official training classes yet, she CAN start her training at h ome and in the garden, and she can be carried around and taken to places to socialise and be habitualised to things like busy places, traffic noise, a variety of visitors and people etc etc. You can also take her to meet healthy, clean adult dogs who are vaccinated, as it is MUCH more important she leanrs how to behave with those than with other puppies (she already knwos how to be a puppy!).
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Flyby
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by Flyby »

Congratulations Abbyneo! Any pics?

My Odin is 4, and all that you're writing sounds fine. I'm not familiar with crates etc, but Ridgebacks are pretty bright, and Odin worked out toilet training pretty quick. He's a dog, and scent marking took a little longer, two rather embarrassing mishaps with a mechanics welding bottle and a lady's handbag, (beam me up Scotty!) but we got there, although I still sweat a little bit when we pass fishermen with their lunchboxes left on the bank, gulp! It hasn't happened yet, but it's gonna... :lol:

Funny you mention it, I totally forgot that Odin had hiccups too. I even mentioned it to the vet because he didn't bolt his food and I wondered if something was wrong. He just grew out of it.

You probably do need to watch the kitten, just because Neo will take a while to get her coordination sorted out, and might be a little rough without meaning to be.

You'll probably know about the training of Ridgebacks and know to avoid all physical chastisement, no smacks or lash with the leash or you risk turning your dog either super aggressive or super timid. I've only had one RR, and I'm amazed how smart he is, but smart and sensitive can be tricky to work with sometimes and you just need to be patient and forgiving.

Only thing I would add is go canny with the walks for the first year or so. You don't usually suffer big dog bone development problems, but Odin got a bone infection when he was a few months old which had the potential to be terminal if he didn't respond to treatment. Vet didn't say as much, but I put it down to walking too far too early. For the first few months, better short walks a little more often than one big long one. You might be fine, but my Odin has turned out a larger RR, 50.2kg the last time he was wormed, and perhaps that was a contributing factor, and thank the lord I was insured!!

You're in for lots of fun ahead, and take lots of pictures because she'll grow very fast, and it won't be long until she's running circles around Abby. If you're lucky, she'll calm down a bit after about a year, but if you're really, really lucky, be prepared for goofy daftness until she's 3.

My Odin is in here somewhere.

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Last edited by Flyby on Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nettle
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by Nettle »

Puppy hiccups are normal and they grow out of them :)
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Flyby
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by Flyby »

Oh yes, and go out of your way to get her socialised too. She may grow to be a powerful dog, and being friendly will be a massive weight off your mind. As soon as she's had all her jabs, I'd recommend you encourage her to meet and mix with as many dogs as possible, big and small. Don't misunderstand, RR's are not anti-social, but being socialised early makes everything else much easier in my opinion...
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minkee
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by minkee »

I love the one falling out the back of the wheelbarrow Flyby ;D
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abbyneo
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by abbyneo »

Thank you all for the replies..I have a ton of pictures! I will upload them as soon as I can. My fiancee and I did a lot of research on Ridgebacks before we got Neo, and we want her to be a big girl! :)

We did recently move to a new city so we don't know many people, and we live in an apartment, so right now exercise is limited to walking on leash down the sidewalk because I don't want her walking around where she could come into contact with a lot of other dogs' poo. The dog park is close by, so we're looking forward to getting here there for some real exercise with Abby. Right now one of us is just taking Abby to the park by herself and the other is staying home with the pup.

She does a lot of playful biting which we are obviously trying to stop as soon as possible. Right now we're doing the same type of thing as the kitten..when she starts biting our hand, we say "no" then give her a chew toy to chew, when she chews that, she gets rewarded.

Big sister Abby is on a grain-free diet (Blue Buffalo). When we moved here, she had a lot of sensitivities, and it was the only thing that made her regular, and we've stuck to it and been very happy with it. We decided to go ahead and give Neo the puppy version of the Blue Buffalo grain free, which is the same food she was eating at her previous home. I've read about not doing grain-free for growing puppies, but I've researched this Blue Buffalo grain free food and it seems to have everything a puppy needs without the negatives of corn and fillers, etc. I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that grain free is ok for babies. I know that Blue Buffalo is a trustworthy brand so I'm not overly concerned about that, but while I'm here I figured I might as well ask and see what the general consensus is.

As for the housetraining, I think that we're going to slowly extend "her" area into the bathroom, then the bedroom using baby gates, etc..so it's kind of a gradual progression and she understands that our entire apartment is still indoors, and peeing is for outdoors.

Thank you all!
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Nettle
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by Nettle »

Grain-free is better for all stages of dog :) Dogs were never designed to eat grains.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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abbyneo
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by abbyneo »

Great! Thank you all so much for your responses!
abbyneo
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by abbyneo »

Timeouts...we started them last night when Neo was playing too rough with the kitten, and I assume it's normal for them to look like they aren't working..? She just comes tearing back out of her timeout space wilder than she was before. I assume it will take many repetitions, but she will eventually get her "lightbulb moment", right?
Flyby
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by Flyby »

Errrrr, .......yup. :lol:
chay
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by chay »

abbyneo wrote:Timeouts...we started them last night when Neo was playing too rough with the kitten, and I assume it's normal for them to look like they aren't working..? She just comes tearing back out of her timeout space wilder than she was before. I assume it will take many repetitions, but she will eventually get her "lightbulb moment", right?
absolutely right abbyneo! consistency is the key, as you WILL need to go "timeout > puppy tries again! > timeout > puppy tries again!" and be up and down like a yoyo for a little while. much like human kids (and adults, for that matter!) once a behavior that has worked for a while, suddenly DOESNT work - the natural thing to do is try a bit harder at it before the realisation of "hrm, this isn't getting the result i like - perhaps a different strategy is in order"

hang in there :D
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minkee
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by minkee »

the only thing you absolutely must not do is let it go! If she just one time gets to do 'the thing' that gets her sent out, she's learned that 'Oh okay, if I persist really really long and hard then eventually I can get this to work!', rather than 'Oh, this doesn't work... I'll try something else.'

REALLY REALLY hard work, I know. But it'll be worth it - hang in there!

Also, someone else mentioned having success with changing the length of time of the time outs - 10 seconds wasn't working for them, but 20 did (or vice versa! I forget!) See if you can work out what's best for your dog.
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jacksdad
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by jacksdad »

as mentioned key to times is persistence. the other is duration, keep it to seconds. play with 5, 10 or 15 seconds and see which seems to work best. remember, puppy with puppy attention spans. too long and they loose the "message", to short the miss the "message". Third you don't always have to remove the puppy, removing your self works too. and lastly, they generally work best for things your dog thinks is fun that maybe inappropriate. If your dealing with a fear, stress or anxiety behaviors timeouts are generally not appropriate.

Do give the different options a really good go before "playing" around with them and mixing it up if one piece doesn't' seem to be working.
abbyneo
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Re: New puppy and 3 year old dog-several questions

Post by abbyneo »

Thank you.the timeouts do seem to be working, albeit slowly. We will stick with it!
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