Ad blocker detected: Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors. Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker on our website.
So Onyx has really long nails and is sensitive about people touching his paws. I've been working on making foot-touching a happy thing for him, but even though he's getting better with his front feet, he's still really sensitive about his back feet. I think it might be because they're already sore from his long nails...
I'm starting to think that I should take him in and get the vets to clip his nails one more time, and then continue working on happy-feet-time. I don't know, however, if this would set him back a lot or if it would be inadvisable...advice? He definitely needs them trimmed soon, and I don't think getting someone else to hold him down while I trim his nails would help with the happy-feet-training.
It depends how the vet (vet nurses) trim nails. I'd be very cautious, having seen too many "take him round the back, muzzle him, throw him down and clip" merchants, who don't care if they draw blood or not. If you trust your vet practice to do a good job, it makes sense to have his nails short while you work on him, but if you don't, would be better to do them yourself. Will he let you file them?
Often dog groomers are better than vets - do you know of anyone in that area who can be trusted?
On sensitive dogs I just clip one nail a day. Try that? Clip, reward, end of, for that day.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
Just out of interest there Nettle. Where vets take dogs who are severely fearful of people in a different room to get a job done (without the owner seeing, muzzle on etc etc), with nail trimming, I can see there are alternatives ie doing it yourself etc but I don't want to hijack the thread, but can I ask, if the dog has something very badly wrong and NEEDS to be handled, it seems this sort of approach is inevitable?
Agree with you there.....if Dylan had an accident or something really bad, he would HAVE to be held down and sedated....which is effectively what has had to happen on the 2 occasions he has had to have something done. Its awful, and he is getting a lot better in the vets with the training we are doing, but there is no other option on those occasions really. Hopefully in future, when he next needs something done, we will be able to get one of them near enough to inject him better. We had 2 nurses sitting on chairs near us today with him not even looking at them at all.....major breakthrough. Sorry - I have hijacked!
Nettle wrote:Often dog groomers are better than vets - do you know of anyone in that area who can be trusted?
On sensitive dogs I just clip one nail a day. Try that? Clip, reward, end of, for that day.
I'll look around for groomers.
The problem with that is Onyx won't even let me touch his back feet (the ones that REALLY need trimming) long enough to well, do anything. Most times, if I even move to touch them (always calm and slow with treats at the ready), he gets up and walks away (I don't stop him, since he obviously isn't comfortable...I just reward heavily on days he does let me touch them). We have a pedipaw thing, but that doesn't do much. We also have a dremel, which is like a pedipaw on steroids (or, rather, a pedipaw is a baby dremel), as far as power level goes.
If I were to have a professional I trust of some sort clip his nails, would you recommend I be there or not? Would he associate me with the unpleasant nail trimming and set us back a lot? Would a Thundershirt help at all? I'm thinking of getting one, since he's afraid of thunder as well (not terribly, but he finds the person he trusts most and lays next to them).
He probably needs his teeth done soon as well; when we get them cleaned, if they anesthetize him, should I ask them to trim his nails at the same time?
If he is being anaesthetised for something else, if that is soon then yes, I would get the nails done then, that is ideal.
The other thing to try if at all possible is to stand him in warm water for as long as possible (ideally after a walk outside in the wet), and THEN try to touch those back paws, even if as Nettle suggests, you do one nail then reward and stop. Hopefully then the nails will be so soft that they wont be so sore, and wont hurt to clip.
Failing that, if someone HAS to do something unpleasant by force, ideally I would have them do it when you are not present. I have done this with my friends dogs, I clipped her claws for her because they were so long they were hurting her, and 'Mum' went out, and when the job was done Mum reappeared and gave her a huge reward, as did I.
We did run the risk of her not speaking to me ever again but at that point it was a worthy risk to take, it isnt the end of the world if she hates me, but it would be if she had lost trust in her mum.
That sort of thing really should be a last possible option though.
Though we obviously recommend listening to your dog and not forcing them, I have to admit I do have Ellie muzzled and held (just by a leash, not in a vice like grip) whilst I do her nails.
The reason we went with this decision is that she is already fearful of our vets, and anaesthetising her for just the nails wasnt really an option. Also we noted she WILL eat food rewards whilst being clipped, and she NEVER flinches at the actual clipping, it is not that she is scared of being hurt, I think it is that she is scared of being shouted at/smacked for fidgeting/pulling her feet away that she is worried about.
She doesnt actively LIKE us doing it, but she stands and eats treats and noses for more treats as we are doing it, and this way we get the job done fairly quickly. The muzzle is more for my benefit than hers, I don't think she would bite me, but with previous owners I understand that growling, lip curling etc were dealt with by smacking her in the face, and she had when we first got her, developed a SUPER fast 'whip round, snarl and nip' move that never failed to make me yelp and let go, which of course backed up for her that this method worked, and she found my reaction unsettling which made the whole issue worse.
Because shes leashed and muzzled and I know she cant whip round and shout at me, I can do things calmly and quickly, and we watch her face the whole time so if she makes a lip curl or a low growl, or just a 'tense' face, we can stop and reassure her for a second. (I must point out here, in the first weeks of having her, we still did just a couple of nails at a time! Not the whole lot!)
Doing it this way, along with a lot of OTHER ways where we demonstrate to her that she CAN tell us to back off with a face or a growl rather than a snarl and a snap, she has relaxed a LOT more, shes much easier to read and as far as I can say (as I cant read her mind!), I would say she tolerates nail clipping with relatively good humour now, as long as the cheese and ham bits keep coming!
The other tell-tale sign that what we are doing is less stressful each time, is that when the muzzle comes off and shes allowed to go, where originally she would race round like a maniac and then avoid us all evening, NOW she just sort of 'harrumphs' and shakes to release the tension and then goes to lie on the sofa with us. I think that is probably as clear as it can be that shes tolerating something that isnt nice, but isnt awful and is coping with it.
So whilst I am not advocating brute force and ignorance, sometimes a bit of 'well I know you don't like it, but we have to do it anyway' can work.
You know your dog though, and I don't, so it is up to you what decisions you make, and you understand that if he IS scared of being hurt and finds being made to tolerate it upsetting you obviously do risk messing up the bond you have with him a bit.
If nobody's ever hurt him while holding his paws, should it be a hold-and-get-over-it thing? Back when I didn't know much about dog training (but thought I did), I would trim the ridiculously long fur on the bottom of his feet...it probably tickled. He would growl at me but I would ignore it ("If you give in to your dog when he growls, he'll learn HE can control YOU - you have to be the alpha!" i was so stupiiiddd haha) and he would never go farther because he's sweet. I may try holding him and trimming a nail tomorrow...just one slice, then mark, treat, and leave. One clip a day...if it doesn't bother him too much....Hmm.
I think the filing would bother him more, because it's extended contact. I'm just going to go with the clipper.
With my other dog, it's gotten to the point where she starts drooling when I get out the nail clipper...it weirds her out, but she enjoys the treats so much that it's still a fun thing. As far as the trust stuff goes, at least with the cats, they forgive quickly...I'm always the one to put the flea juice on, and they won't go near me for about two days and then go back to cuddling on my lap. And if Onyx hates me for a bit, at least he'll be happier overall.
However, the dentist isn't so close in the future that it's feasible (I'm trying to convince my parents to switch to another vet because our current ones are idiots). Now that Onyx is more mobile (joint supplements), he's moving more, so it's more of an issue than when he would get up to go outside, come back in, and lay back down.
runlikethewind wrote:So Dylan is improving at the vets despite being forcefully handled at the vets - that is interesting...
Yep! But he hasnt had to be handled like that for many months....he now goes in there, has loads of treats and is now able to have the vet/nurses sit a few chairs away from him without him fixating on them!
I once told a vet that if they had to do something on either dog forcefully, that I would leave (echoing Emmannbeth's advice above) and they were SHOCKED!! They said 'won't they get comfort from you being there?'. I said, no I doubt it. There are pros and cons IMHO on this. One the one hand, your dog should trust you to look after him/her in any sitation, so your being there should be ok but if all hell breaks loose, I don't want them pairing me being there with a nasty experience. A difficult one.
With our dog, Red, I've found pros and cons for either taking him to the vet for a nail trimming or doing it ourselves. He gets anxious at the vet, whereas at home one of us can hold a treat in front of him and scratch his ears while the other trims, so doing it at home is less stressful for him. My sister-in-law is a breeder/trainer/groomer of show dogs and can do it when she is in town, but her demeanor concerning grooming, like the vet, is very business-like, also causing stress. However, once when he had a routine exam and asked for the vet to do it, they said his nails shouldn't be much shorter than they were. At home, we might be trimming too much. It also takes us much longer for us to get the job done.
I guess it boils down to two questions - how effectively and safely can you do it as opposed to a professional, and how much stress can be alleviated by doing it at home, even if it takes longer.
I've been trimming our other dog's nails for quite some time, or I wouldn't even consider doing Onyx's. She's never indicated that she was in pain (and she's a wimp), so I feel fairly confident...Onyx gets stressed going in the car (or he just gets carsick...either way, he throws up and it's no fun to clean up), so the fewer rides the better. Thank you for that statement, though. It really helped me put in perspective why I should at least try to do his nails. I clipped about two millimeters off of one of his hind toes, and all he did was bark at me while I was holding it, and sort of try to pull away. Afterward, I gave him a massage, so he was happy. I'll keep doing a bit a day, followed by good rewards, and see how far it gets me. Thanks everyone for helping me decide!
I have a Rhodesian Ridgeback who hates getting his nals clipped, absolutely hates it.
We have a very good local Vets, and one of the girls managed to clip a nail quickly while the dog was distracted, but after 4 or 5 nails, he worked out what was happening and that was the end of that. Sometimes he's too clever for his own good, but he is a big strong dog, and if he doesn't want his claws clipped, it's not going to happen.
We don't have a good solution to the clipping, but what helped a lot was changing where we exercised. Being a big dog, he was always taken to the parks, riverbanks or countryside, and despite walking miles, his claws just grew and grew. Nowadays, we try to include some urban walks on the road or pavement, which helps massively to wear down his claws naturally. This has been a complete fix for his back paws, and his front paws are much better. They are longer than I'd like ideally, but not causing him trouble or discomfort. Problem not so much solved, but successfully avoided.
