Help... sudden submissive urination!

[AfroAngel]

Hi (again)

I have a 1 year old German Shepherd ***** named Onyx. She is a lovely friendly dog but recently she has started cowering and peeing on the floor and couch, oh and my bed when either my partner or myself comes home. It started after my partner took a bone from her, he didn't say anything or do anything aggressive just took the bone and moved her. Ever since then if we come home or call her she pees everywhere. Its been going on for about 4 months now. We've tried ignoring her when we come in, taking her straight out... nothing helps. She was crated but she would pee as soon as you let her out. Once you are home you can do anything to the dog, she is not shy or submissive most of the time its just when we return home. She is in the process of being security trained and is showing promise when facing loud noises or threatening people. I'm at my wits end... I spend the first 10 minutes of most days home cleaning up dog pee or changing my bed!

Thank you for your help and advice in advance xxx

[Erica]

Has she been to the vet recently? It might be health-related rather than behavioral, or a mix of both. With sudden behavior changes, a lot of the experienced dog people here recommend a thorough vet exam to make sure it's not a health issue.

(Also, completely off topic but still interesting - we have two dogs: one, a GSD girl named Opal, and one a mix boy named Onyx. Hehe. )

[emmabeth]

How is she being security trained... and when did that start in relation to the peeing?

Can you either - arrange that she comes out to you when you come home with out you approaching or calling her (for example at my house I could shut a dog in the kitchen, then when I got home I could open the kitchen door and make interesting food type rattley noises outside rather than calling)...

Or, can you put some plastic sheeting down so that when she pees its on that sheeting - you can then completely ignore it and be genuinely happy to see her, knowing the pee won't make a mess, and give her a lot of rewards to hopefully desensitize/counter condition the 'returning home' issue.

I have to say I am concerned about the security training - this level of submissive urination in a ***** her age, doesn't fit well with a dog who is truly confident in the sorts of situations she may be being trained in. I would worry that shes actually far more fearful than you may realise, which does not bode well in a dog doing security work.

[AfroAngel]

She's been to the vets a few time since this has started as a result of a problem with her spaying and an allergy to the soluble stitching and they have given her a clean bill of health.

As for her training, she has no problems on that front. She is still in the early stages and the training is being based around her love of all thing ball related. She is happy to stand off and doesn't freak out when introduced to new sights and sounds (usually straining to get closer and have a good look and sniff and if at all possible a taste ). There is no punishment involved its a big game to her. I have spoken to a few people who have protection dogs (some army and some private security) and a few of them have dogs that seem submissive at home but are excellent at their jobs and they don't believe she'll have any problems (she was introduced to gunfire and her reaction was to try and lick the gun and crowds are no problem).

A few people have said that she might grow out of it *fingers crossed*

I would love to have her greet me outside but our front door open onto a fairly busy road and I am taking great pains to teach her that dashing out is just not on. As for the floor its laminate so the mess is no big deal just annoying! The couch is leather so not a major problem there, it'd just be nice not to spend part of my lunch hour and 10 minute of more when I get in from a long day at work on my hands and knees with kitchen roll and odour nutraliser...

On the whole she wants to be with us, she's happy and follows us around and wants to play, its just the first 10 minutes after we get home... she cowers as soon as we open the front door even if she hasn't done anything. I don't speak to her or even look directly at her I just pick up her lead and take her out as soon as I get home but as soon as I get close she pees, I don't lean over her (I'm pretty tall). I've tried crouching on the floor and getting her to come to me but she just mauls me and pees when I touch her....


Anything else I can try? Things are better than they were at one point... she used to pee as soon as you tried to put her lead on in the house but now its only for the brief time after we get home so I praying there is hope... could her age have anything to do with it?

[runlikethewind]

Sounds like excitment-induced urination - Emmabeth, do you think?

However, I must just add - leave a bone with the dog. Don't take a bone from a dog. Totally pointless exercise. If you need a dog to leave a bone, call her away and give her something as a reward, instead.

Also I am thinking the first thing you do is pick up her lead and go to touch her neck - try doing some other action instead as the first thing you do when you arrive home that does not involve reaching down to her face area. When you do do a collar grab, reward her warmly with a treat so she sees it as something nice. You mention a couple of times that she is nervous when you put her lead on - hence why I am picking up on this.

Could the security trainers be grabbing her collar?

[jacksdad]

if this was my dog I would start from the very beginning and really consider a wide variety of possibilities. even one's that might have been "eliminated" as possible cause already.

is she getting enough potty breaks during the day, she is still pretty young. it is possible you are waiting to long between breaks?

could this be a side affect of a possibly botched spaying?

is there some other medical issue going on (may need a second opinion from another vet)

is the security training really for your dog. is she really, really truly happy with it? is it too much for her? is she truly happy or shutdown?

when she does pee in the house what is the rest of her body saying? ears, eyes, face, body stance etc.

is there possibly anything you and your partner might/could be doing that scares her that might not seem scary to you? it's entirely possible your all are doing something without meaning too or
intentionally that your dog is seeing as scary. at one year old she could be in the middle of her final fear stage and the training an/or something else may have affected her more than you realize. particular post being spayed.

is there something going on outside your house during the day that you might not be aware of?

please don't discount anything right now. particularly if the answer may not be something you want to hear...ie security training and this dog not be a match. Just really step back, remove any preconceptions and consider everything.

[AfroAngel]

Thanks for all the replies.

I stopped her security training for a while when the problem started but that hasn't helped. The trainer is definately not grabbing her collar as he directs and I am hands on with her.

I wondered about her spay but she doesn't have problems holding herself over night or if we are home during the day, it really is only for the brief time after we get home then she is more than happy to terrorise us.

I hope its not something we are doing but as you mentioned it may not being something we are aware of.

I have started ignoring her when I get home and going to her food cupboard and giving her atreat before I do anything. Then I put my own rubbish away and then look to take her out. She is no longer bothered by me putting her lead on in the house.

I'm just going to have to keep an eye on her and try out some of your suggestions.... I'll keep everyone posted! Oh yeah and pray she grows out of it!

[emmabeth]

Is she crated? Does she urinate in the crate if you speak to her at all?

I think you have probably covered all the bases, though I would record her whilst you are out in case there is something going on whilst you are gone that shes worrying about?

Then as I say, cover the floor area where you will greet her, and greet her as normal an dTOTALLY ignore the urination - i worry about ignoring when you come in as this is quite unnatural and can lead some dogs to become upset and MORE anxious about your return.

[AfroAngel]

Ok, so greet as normal... ignore pee.... got it!

We were playing with her last night and she was playing on her own this morning when she randomly decided to jump on the couch and pee (thank God for leather, my partners uniform didn't fare so well), no one had touched her or spoken to her, and she has been WAY more excited than that and not pee'd... this dog is just odd... but I love her so persevere!

[emmabeth]

Talking to a shepherdy friend (has bred them in the past, has always had shepherds for the last 30 years!) - random and 'odd' peeing in juvenile bitches is not uncommon and something they will generally grow out of if it is handled correctly.

If it makes you feel any better, my friends shepherd/collie/spaniel x ***** went through a phase of peeing on things, but ONLY when visiting other peoples houses. She came here and peed on clothes left on my bedroom floor, and on my BED at least a handful of times before we realised it was her doing it! (She was also a similar age to your ***** too!).

[AfroAngel]

Emmabeth... I'm so sorry but that did make me giggle

It made me feel better to think that there is some hope of a pee free home. I'll just have to be patient and keep the shares of Plenty high till she decides to grow out of it.

Thank you for all the help and advice, its nice to know there are people out there who care enough to help...