My GSP keeps crying and Barking...help!

[Vicky+Oakley]

Hello i have a four year old German Shorthaired Pointer who is the most lovable creature ever!! He loves everything and anything! The problem i have is that when we are out on walks, if we see another dog out on our walks, he will start crying like a whine, and the then once we get closer he'll suddenly go and bark and lunge at the dog and is rather difficult to control...The thing is he absolutely LOVES dogs, he is amazing with them and once he has said hello and sniffed he then isn't interested at all. It's like he is completely over excited with seeing them. I've tried the ignore and once he starts to cry, then walk the other way which did help a little but my health isn't great and it's very difficult to do that sort of thing... so i am trying to desperately find a command or anything that isn't too physically demanding (i know that's silly but i am trying anything and everything to solve this problem) oh also i've been to shows and horse shows where there are tons of dogs, and he is fine....doesn't give a dam with loads and loads of dogs although will sometimes try and lunge a little bit at a particular dog funny thing lol
Thank you for helping and taking the time to read it.
Vicky.

[emmabeth]

What you have been doing is on the right lines, but actually you need to take the action BEFORE he takes his action - you need to teach him a different association with dogs when hes on leash, the ideal one being that he sees another dog and thinks 'ooh, what does my Mom say...' rather than 'ooh another dog REACT REACT'.

So to start with avoid other dogs and do a bit of loose leash walking (doesnt matter if he can walk on a loose leash or not tbh, do it anyawy), as this sharpens up the idea that when on a leash, pay attention to the human on the end of it! Theres a thread in the Articles section about how to do this - if he DOES walk well on the leash then take food rewards and use those for lots of sits/downs/changes of pace and direction. So walks now = 'pay attention to Mom' and if they mean THAT, then he is spending LESS time looking for other dogs as he is mentally occupied as well as physically!

Then once you have spent a week or two doing that, aim to go a little further, but still when you see another dog, about turn and avoid - make a note of how far away you have to be for him to see and NOT react. Reward him for seeing another dog and start saying 'look at that - reward - look at me - reward' so he gets the idea that looking at something, acknowledging it and then looking at YOU, is a good thing. YOu may need to up your chances of success by standing in front of him, turning him away from it etc etc or even stepping behind a hedge/fence/parked vehicle to break his attention at first but over time he should learn that seeing other dogs = reward and breaking his attention from other dogs = reward.

I suspect his behaviour is due to frustration and not really knowing how to go from 'ooh yay a dog' to 'hi dog' in a polite manner - teaching him self control will also help - take a look in the articles section for the 'its yer choice - impulse control' thread and practice that all over the house and yard and then in the street. You can do it with food and with toys and the more places and ways you practice it, the better. So he learns that being calm and listening and using impulse control is MUCH more likely to get him what he wants!

Then - and this will be weeks or even months down the line - see if you can find a canine friend for him, with an owner who will allow you to walk behind them (so you can circle away if its too much for him, and if he greets he is greeting the butt, not the face), and/or parallel to them, and also practice impulse control around their dog. Please do not rush to this stage as if he ever lunges and barks in the face of a dog who is nervous or aggressive not only is it likely that dog will react badly and teach him a lesson you don't need him to learn, but you may also put someone ELSES work back a long way!

[Vicky+Oakley]

Thank you i will try and start that tomorrow.....its so frustrating as my conditions say to my body either 'cant be bothered' or ill forget the treats or what im doing its sill y and very confusing for my pet and exactly what i shouldnt do.....and whoever else then takes him for a walk doesn't carry on with my training.....so its very confusing for him more likely!! oh dear i will get this sorted at some point thanx for the reply.....btw could you help me with this also...
We live down a gravel lane, and in the middle there is a springer spaniel, ex police passive dog, and he is very very 'disturbed' shall we say although that sounds horrible but anyway my dog hates him! i have done positive reinforcement, with distractions and treats as when we come back from a walk especially we have to pass this house and as soon as we are at the top of the lane, he crouches down into a sort of defence mode, and just stares waiting for the house to come up and if the dog is not at the window then he will just cry and whine like normal with other dogs, and then he will look at me after we past the house and wag his tail...if he is at the window, he will whine, then the other dog barks and then my dog will lunge, not at him just forward and bark as he really doesnt like him. He has not got over this for some reason and he goes completely defence like, and almost fearful but he is not that type of dog....its very weird.......Also generally with dogs if i am having a very bad phase of my conditions and cannot cope very well, my dog will completley ignore all dogs, and will not make any sound at all....will be as if normal ! :L lol and he will behave so well!! im not sure if sometimes he will be protective over me as he has started a fight before when a mastiff came up from behind and i wasnt feeling well....it was like a back off sign to the other dog....he is not a fierce dog AT ALL!! he is the most loving, caring, soppiest dog you could ever, ever find!!! even cuddling up to my cat right now as i type!! lol x

[Vicky+Oakley]

Today, i am going to try and do the 'watch me' process...i have tried this before but can't remember how effective or how consistent i was about it....Do you think it will work? is this a good place to start without him going ballistic about seeing another animal.
By the way he does do this to cats aswell...we have a cat at home and when he see's a cat he wags his tail and wimpers/whines. obviously i can never let him go towards it as they will not tolerate the dog ......wasnt sure if this would make a difference to his issue or the correct training which needs to be used. He does exactly the same to squirrels.....more of a lunge as he is a gundog..he has a thing about squirrels, must smell nicer :L but it is the same body language for it all....thats why it has confused me so much.....anyone could help please???????
Vicky.

[GundogGuy]

Ahhh... GSP's ... These can be a particularly vocal breed when excited. I know, I have one who whinges when asked to stay still for more than 3 seconds when he knows there is or has been game around...

At 4 years old your dog is just coming to the end of it's puppy hood if indeed they ever do develop from 'puppy brain' (GSPs take a loooong time to mature but one saving grace is that GWP's take longer ) and can be very susceptible to protein levels in food.

What do you feed your dog? My dogs are working dogs and at this time of year they are on a maintenance feed that is 18% protein although this will go up when the shooting season is in full swing. In previous years I've put my boy up to 26% Protein which sent him loopy and last shooting season I put him up to 23% protein but there was still a remarkable difference in his 'excitability' in the field.

This year I'm going to put him on Duck and Rice which is 21% but is gluten free. Currently he's on a wheat based feed. I'd recommend you try avoid wheat (and chicken too if possible) and see if that helps your dog calm down

Of course, the protein levels are all relative to the other ingredients (esp. carbs). but you get the gist...

[Vicky+Oakley]

oh your dogs are gorgeous!!!!
Currently he is fed on 'Barking Heads' and if i remember correctly it is lamb and rice, and thinking about it, he hasn't been fed on anything different since we have had him as he was a stray from ireland, and we have NO history on him at all .....

Fresh Lamb (min 26%), White Rice (min 26%), Dried Lamb (min 26%), Ground Oats, Lamb Fat, Salmon Oil, Whole Linseed, Minerals, Dried Tomato, Natural Seaweed, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, Vitamins.
Protein 22%, Fat 16%, Fibre 3%, Ash 9%, Moisture 8%

Vit A 13,500 iu/kg, Vit D3 1,200 iu/kg, Vit E (tocopherols) 400 iu/kg

Copper (copper sulphate) 12mg/kg

Omega 6 (linoleic acid) 3.1% - Omega 3 (linolenic acid) 1.0%

This is straight off the website as i dont have the packet in front of me....this food is fantastic and we chose it as he was very skinny and underweight....im just going to look at other food which might be less in protein as you say, more a calming food....or, do you think getting a decent calming liquid thing you get in bottles would be worthwhile?? yopur post has really opened my eyes suddenly..i never thought of his food!! i work with horses so i should know all about it!! :L lol silly me putting him through it :/ thank youu x

[Vicky+Oakley]

hi me again...tomorrow i am going into town, so we are going to buy 'Sherley's serenity tablets' to see if they work, im a little concerned that his stomach will be a little sensitive as they're tablets, not sure if its the best long term thing, otherwise if not so good, i was going to get the 'NAF canine calm' herbal liquid stuff...its a well known brand and used a lot in horse stuff at my yard (the horse kind that is! ) lol......i will try and update tomorrow on how we do with the tablets...not sure how long they take to kick in or not if its immediate (immediate meaning that day) or it takes a couple of days to kick in
best wishes...Night!!
x

[emmabeth]

I am not massively convinced by Sherleys products - I think you would be better off PHONING people like NAF, Dorwest, Global etc and asking them about their herbal calmers - pretty sure they all do a dog one. Also CSJ, though I don't rate their food in the slightest, they do do herbal supplements.

[GundogGuy]

That food looks to be pretty decent quality so when shopping around I'd try not to reduce the quality of ingredients... you could try something with brown rice and/or something based on turkey or duck...

Skinners do a decent duck & rice and they also do turkey and rice with added joint aid although the only brand I'm familiar with that offers brown rice is Burns...

Also, remember that the actual protein content may not be as big a factor as the balance between it and the other components and also the source of the protein (as many raw feeders will tell you). The lowest protein level feed I have is Skinners Maintenance at 18% but it contains wheat and wheat gluten but it does keep my GSP at a manageable excitement level. Of course, he's also maturing now which may also be a factor but, ask him to sit for more than 3 seconds on a Grouse moor or pheasant shoot and he'll whistle dixie like a good 'un

Sometimes you just gotta experiment with all the factors to find what is right for your dog and budget. If I could afford it, i'd most likely feed Eukanuba but right now Skinners fits my dogs and my pocket. In fact, when I went to Skinners the amount of waste my GSP produced halved and within 7 days his quality of coat had changed dramatically...

edited to add: GSP's are notorious for having sensitive stomachs so please make food changes gradual. My GSP can whistle dixie out his other end too if something upsets his delicate tum

[Vicky+Oakley]

Yes i have had two weimy's before....he has a better stomach than they both had!! lol......my mum went to our local pet shop today and they are going to get in the sherley's tablets on friday so we will see i guess....they gave us some other companies which we could ring up and ask about on...i think i will wait to see how these tablets work...if they don't seem to take much effect then i might have to look around again for a bit and try the NAF stuff....as i know they're good....very good at taking out a chunk of ya pocket too so tablets first then the naf and if not then....vets oppnions etc...
Probably be asking you guys too lool
Thanks guys for all your help..i will update on how he does once we have the tablets for a few days x

[Vicky+Oakley]

Hello, recent update, got the tablets today and they obviously haven't had enough time to work yet but we will see tomorrow.
I took Oakley across the fields today and there was a black lab prob cross with a rottie or something and he was not castrated and we had to pass on a very small bridge but he was fantastic and sniffed and greeted politely and whined a little but didn't look back at all just carried on and i thought that was pretty good going bless him. Then a couple of fields later we came across another two labs who were off lead and he looked but completely ignored them...not even a single sound!!! the reason i am hoping he is acting this way is because i have for the past few days been rewarding him with treats and verbally as soon as i see a dog, that it is a good thing to see the dog, but he need not whine and cry about it. almost as a distraction and reward for seeing them. I will be keeping this up and i will try and update on how he does in the next couple of days

[Nettle]

If there is a narrow space like a bridge or gateway, it's always best even with non-reactive dogs to hang back, turn back, step off the track or do whatever else is necessary to let the other dog over before you enter the narrow space. It worked this time - great - but another time you may be trapped in a narrow space with a fear-defensive dog. So always avoid this situation because it sets you up for failure.

[Vicky+Oakley]

i tried waiting....for five mins until i got fed up of his dopey owner so i had to barge my way past.....i wouldnt normally.....but in this instance i felt i had to

[Vicky+Oakley]

and by small i didnt mean narrow....i ment small in length

[Vicky+Oakley]

hi guys im so sorry i haven't updated it!!! well today was a fab day in focus of Oakley!!! firstly on his 4 oclock walk we came face to face with a collie x spaniel i think quite quickly both dogs were fine oakley didnt make a sound! and we carried on with our walk (i crossed the road about 2 mins before and didnt even see hte other dog coming towards!! ) and then again stupid owners who have no control well there is a female staffy who is never walked on a lead around our area and the owner cant seem to take a hint that he cant control her when she sees another dog (our previous dog had been got at by this staff when he was alive too) and basically we were walking past icelands and her owners partner didnt see us (as they were waiting for the bloke) and we walked near them and then the staff ran up barking and growling and oakley didnt make a sound, i was trying to walk on and he was moving with me but not very much as the staffy was sniffing his backside and he still did not make a sound he was so fantastic...ive actually forgotton about the tablets lol but they didnt seem to make much difference tbh so i might try the naff stuff which i know for a fact does work very well for horses so ill get the dog version when i have the money obviously! :L
Thing is........i tried some leave it training just before oakley's 4 oclock walk although he does annoyingly still bark and cry a LOT when walking up the lane past that spaniel :/ any ideas?? x cheers