Being Handled by the Vet

[yummybagel]

Hello!
My two year old male Beagle went to the vet several days ago because he had some allergic reactions, and was licking his paws up to the point where it bled. I think he's been a little uncomfortable because of his paws, and he did snap at me several times when I tried to touch it and have a look at it. He was fine with me touching his paw one day, but not fine with it in another day.

Anyways, we went to the vet. The training nurse came in, checked his ears, touched him all over, checked his teeth and gums, and he endured it well. I stood beside him, giving him treats whenever he went though all the "examinations" well. Although I have to mention he was shaking a little bit...But we even got a compliment that he's so polite and well-behaved...(It might have just looked that way. Or maybe they were just empty compliments..Bagel was definitely not too happy about being on that examination table..but like I said, he endured it well). Everything was fine until she had to stick a thermometer up his butt. He yelped, and snapped at the nurse..I don't blame him..I would do the same if someone stuck something up MY butt but then again, I don't have sharp teeth that could injure someone. So my point is, it wasn't the reaction that I wanted from him. After the thermometer, he really began to get snappy. After the training nurse checked his temperature, the doctor came in, and checked on him more. She checked his neck (for lymphnodes, I imagine) and various parts of his body, including his two front paws and although I don't think he enjoyed it, he again endured that well. But then, the doctor kind of held his bottom, turned it torwards her, so that his butt would be facing her and his head facing me. She tried to check his back paws, but he really didn't give her a chance. He snapped at her really badly. He made a growl, snapped, and I think maybe even bit her although it didn't draw blood. I think the doctor was very taken aback at his reaction because she said something like, "whoa..! very angry!" and she seemed to have lost focus because she began to stutter, did alot of "ummm"s and short silences to regain her though, and I could hear her breath quickened..

I guess what I'm wondering is if there are ways to help him cope with being at the Vet's office better? He doesn't go to the vet too often..He gets a comprehensive exam two times a year, and I don't get to be there with him when he is getting the exam so I really don't know how he normally is with the nurses. I have to kind of drop him off at the hospital in the morning, leave, and come back when they call us, telling us that his examinations are done. We did the "touch training" when he was a puppy....and to give a little bit of more background, I posted here months ago about how he snaps instead of growling when he's fed up with people in the family touching too much. I've really been trying to follow the advice posted by telling my family not to touch him until he asks for a pet, but there's no progress since no one is really listening. I try get them off him, but sometimes it doesn't work..and I've never been able to completely stop them from petting him...

[ladybug1802]

First of....your family NEEDS to stop petting him when he is clearly asking them not to. One day , if they dont stop, one of them will get bitten....and it will be their fault not the dog, although in these cases the dog gets blamed. So be strict with them.....tell them they MUST do what you ask!

As for the vets, to be honest if it was my vet I would be alittle concerned why you arent allowed to stay for the examinations. A ful vet check shouldnt need to be done out the back out of sight of the owner, and it makes me wonder why they feel the need to do that. It may well have a bearing on his behaviour now?

I have a dog who is very fearful of thevets and literally will not let them near him. To examine him he has to be fully sedated, but last time it took an hour to get to this stage.....he totally freaks out, flails around, screams etc...its heartbreaking. I take him in once maybe twice a week when I can, and at the moment literally just sit in the waiting room and feed him treats. Nobody approaches him at the moment. This is in addition to some behaviour modifcation training I am doing outside as well. But the idea is to just get him used to people not being scary, and to being in the surgery with nothing scary happening at the moment. I reckon with your boy it wont be so bad tho....but maybe start taking him in for a vists without being examined. Feed him yummy treats in the waiting room on a few tyimes, then go into the examination room, chat to the vet or vet nurse, without them touching the dog, treat him al the time, then leave.

But again i would be concerned about the fact that they send you home while they examine him. I wouldnt leave!

[emmabeth]

I would find another vet to start with - no way does a vet get to handle MY dogs without me being present and preferably I am there for pre-meds before any surgery, and when the dog comes round also though I do recognise that this is not something all vets can accomodate, at all times.

You were doing the right stuff for this vet visit - next time he has to go I would muzzle him and use lickable paste type rewards instead of pieces of something, say cheese spread or meat paste, which you can get through his muzzle and its quite calming to lick stuff.

Ditto Ladybugs post, go to the vets office lots - go sit in the waiting room and feed rewards, then leave. Go sit there and have the receptionist feed treats (toss them to him if offering from the hand is risky), go sit and have nurses toss treats to him, so that MOST times when he goes to the vets its a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.

You really do need to get your family to quit fussing him when he doesn't want it - though I realise you know this already and are doing your best.

Could you teach him some cue that tells him to go hide somewhere perhaps, so he can run off and hide rather than endure stuff he doesnt like?

[sh0rtkak3]

I took my puppy to the vet.. and he actually BIT THE VET.

MY ADVICE::::::

- DO NOT JUST PLACE HIM ON THE EXAMINATION TABLE. if you can tell he is nervous... etc....

I cant remember how big you said your dog was.. but my puppy is only 7lbs.. so for me it was easy for me to
PICK HIM UP
PET HIM
TOLD HIM "Everything is okay... you are okay"
THEN I HANDED HIM TO THE VET where she PET HIM to let him know he was SAFE

Same thing works for bigger dogs that maybe cannot be picked up:
MAKE HIM SIT
PET HIM
TELL HIM "Everything is okay"
HAND THE LEASE TO THE VET
THE VET SHOULD BRING YOUR DOG ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EXAMINATION TABLE and PET HIM TO LET HIM KNOW HE IS OKAY
then.. proceed with everything.

Sure did help me a lot, a bit of advice from my awesome vet. My puppy is very shy and nervous around other people, or even growling sometimes.... when people come over I do the same steps, and hand him off. The handing him off lets him know, it is okay. Yes, my puppy is a little protective over me.. and jealous of my boyfriend, HA but I am still working on the social aspects.. getting him to meet more people so maybe the fear or nervousness will just be something small later. GOOD LUCK!

[emmabeth]

Argh I have just seen this post - sh0rtkak3 - whoever gave you this advice does not know what tehy are talking about (and vets do NOT automatically know about behaviour, any more than the man on the street does, a veterinary qualification is not the same as an animal behaviour or a veterinary animal behaviour qualification!!!).

Please, to the OP, do NOT do this and please shortcake, as i said in your previous post, stop doing this and don't advise any ELSE to do it either.

We can help to reduce fear (and its fear, its not jealousy or protectiveness, its FEAR) and teach you how to get your dog to be happier and more confident, but carrying on a method like this is liable to make your dog worse and risks peoples safety too.

[ladybug1802]

Agghhhh ditto to Emmabeth's post shortcak3........this is NOT the way to be doing things! Handing your fearful dog over to the vet or someone else does NOT tell them everything is OK.....it will either cause them to totally shut down, or make the dogs more fearful and end up in a bite. If I passed the lead over to my vet when I take Dylan in, all hell would break loose!

OP - please do not pay attention to this post......it will make things worse not better.

[yummybagel]

Thank you for all of your replies!

I don't think my family really understands why I'm going crazy over them touching him too much. They just think I'm being possessive of my dog. I've explained the reasons to them before, but I don't think they believe me..But I'm trying to minimize it as much as I can..

But anyways..For the vet that we go to, the examination rooms are not accessible, I don't think, unless you've made an appointment or have some sort of problem that you want to get checked. The doctors and the nurses are always in the back room, and also not easily accessible. It's hard to talk to them unless an appoinment for examinations are made. Well, I guess I can ask for them.....

Im in the US, and I'm not really sure where to get muzzles..There's a pet store I go to, and though they do sell variety of harnesses, etc, I haven't seen muzzles..I'll go check again, and I'll check different pet stores nearby but are there anywhere that I can get them in a reasonable price?

Could you teach him some cue that tells him to go hide somewhere perhaps, so he can run off and hide rather than endure stuff he doesnt like?

We're working on "bed". He's supposed to go to his bed when I say "bed". It's not solid yet but we're practicing.

Again, thank you for your help!! Really appreciate it

[yummybagel]

Also, can I get an explanation on why it's not right to hand the leash to the vet?
I understand that if a dog is handed physically (like, handing a small dog to another person) to a stranger that he is already fearful of, then he can end up biting, etc. But why is it not wise to hand the leash to the vet?

[ladybug1802]

Also, can I get an explanation on why it's not right to hand the leash to the vet?
I understand that if a dog is handed physically (like, handing a small dog to another person) to a stranger that he is already fearful of, then he can end up biting, etc. But why is it not wise to hand the leash to the vet?

You say the reason why in your post above.......handing a smal dog in your arms to the vet if it is scared, and handing the leash of a bigger dog to the vet if it is scared is one and the same. If the dog is scared, you are forcing the dog to be put in a situation it is not comfortable with....in fact a situation that makes the dog actively scared. This is too fast a step and will not get the dog to see that strangers/vets are not scary....you need to do it slowly and gradually by exposing the dog to the vet/vet surgery/vet nurses etc a LOT when they are not even going to touch him or look at him.

I find it strange that you cant speak to or have access to vets or vet nurses unless you make an appiintment....are there not nurses and a vet there all the time that you can go in and have a quick chat to? I know all vets surgeries are different, but I would like to think the staff there would be more than happy for you to take your dog in and just sit there, treat him etc....after all in the long run it will make their job easier. Thats how my vet and staff feel.....mind you with Dylan I am never going to aim for having him examined by the vet unless sedated.....all we need to aim for at the moment is him letting a nurse or vet near him so they can inject him/sedate him.

As for where to get muzzles......in the UK vets surgeries have them....I got my first basket muzzle from my vet.

[emmabeth]

When you have a fearful dog the LAST thing you want to do is force them to confront their fears.

For some dogs, being trapped (ie, having the leash handed over) in close confinement with a stranger would be sufficient for that dog to at best, become more fearful and at worst, react and actually bite someone.

There are many such dogs owned by people on these forums, and I have at least two dogs who I would NOT hand their leads over to strangers if they were acting remotely fearful.

We promote positive training and part of that is listening to your dog - if your dog is telling you 'I am scared and I don't like this' then forcing the issue and making them confront that fear, AND putting them and the other person at risk, is not in any way positive, OR listening to the dog.

Sometimes what we advise may appear overly cautious, but we all know that frightened dogs may well bite, and biting dogs can rapidly end up with a one way ticket to the vets office to be PTS. It just isn't worth the risk.

Muzzles - have you tried shopping online, if you can't do that, phone some of your local vets and see if they sell any or can tell you where they buy from.

[Sarah83]

There are tons of websites were you can buy muzzles if the shops near you don't stock them. They vary in cost from around £8 up to around £60 for the UK sites, not sure how much they cost in other countries. You don't need an expensive one, I've had a £9 Baskerville muzzle for 3 years now and although it's looking a bit battered after so much use it still does the job. Mine came from Pets at Home but will be being replaced, our German pet store has a much bigger selection and not just the cheap plastic ones.

I wouldn't be too happy going to a vet who didn't allow me to be there for things like routine checks in all honesty.

[sh0rtkak3]

Yikes - guess I still have a lot of learning to do. Thanks everyone!

[yummybagel]

Thank you all for your help!

I will definitely look around online for the muzzles!