Jekyll and Hyde dog

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Taro's Mum
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Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by Taro's Mum »

First, the history: We adopted Taro, a black Shiba, nearly two years ago when he was three and a half months old. He had been a pet shop puppy, bought on impulse by someone whose family refused to let him keep him. Another person took Taro off their hands, but living in a small flat and with a job and a toddler, she was having to leave him crated and alone all day every day. She realised she could not look after him, and put him up for adoption.

When we first went to see him, it was obvious that he had had no training at all and was out of control, running around nipping ankles; but after I had played with him for half an hour or so with a clicker, he was sitting on cue, making eye contact and looking attentive. Darn cute pup, intelligent too. I've lived with dogs most of my life, and I was pretty confident that I could train him.

So, we took him home. At first any attempt to touch him would elicit a snap and a wrinkly muzzle; trying to wipe his feet on coming in from the garden would send him into a full-scale temper tantrum, with Taro screaming and attempting to bite. Using the clicker and lots of patience, I gradually got him to tolerate a person being near him - a hand near him - a hand on him - a hand stroking him - all the way to ear scratches, tummy tickles and cuddles. And of course, wiping muddy paws. Success.

At the same time we discovered that he had food guarding issues. When I put his food bowl in front of him, instead of eating he would stand over the bowl growling and snarling. Any high-value resource, like a stuffed kong, would elicit the same kind of reaction from him. I tackled this by, first of all, cutting out the stuffed kongs. Cutting out meals wasn't an option of course, so I tried various tactics such as putting down an empty bowl and putting just half a handful of food in it when he was sitting quietly. Any sign of aggression meant no more food until he was quiet again. I also tried feeding him directly from my hand.
It took a long time, but we finally got him accepting meals normally.

BUT there are times when he becomes a different dog. When this happens his face changes; there is a 'hard' look in his eyes. The trigger is usually food, either his meal or a treat, but sometimes there seems to be no apparent trigger. For no discernible reason, he will drop a treat he has just been given, stand over it, and show his teeth to whoever gave him the treat; or stand growling over his meal. Sometimes when he goes into his crate (whether asked to do so, or on his own), he will suddenly turn around snarling and try to bite the hand of anyone shutting the door. Normally he's very good at walking on the lead, but every now and then when we're out he'll suddenly start running to and fro with his ears back and tail tucked under his bottom, for all the world as if he is being chased. When this happens he may sometimes bite his lead, or even try to bite my hand.

He had been 'good' for several months, and we thought he had finally grown out of his aggressive bouts; then yesterday when I gave him his evening meal, instead of eating it he stood between it and me, got 'that look' in his eyes, and showed me his teeth. I told him not to be silly and to eat his dinner, at which point he started to snarl in earnest. My husband grabbed his lead (which he wears even in the house - more about that later) and put him, still snarling, in his crate. Thirty minutes later when I let him out again, it was as if nothing had happened; he licked my hands and snuggled up to me, and ate his dinner no problem. He could have been a different dog.
Tonight I gave him his evening meal as usual, told him he could eat, and walked across to the other side of the room to tidy some things away. Taro sniffed at his food, and he may have eaten a bit. Then he picked up one of his toys that was lying near his bowl, rushed across the room and into his crate where he stood snarling at me with the toy still in his mouth. I shut the crate door, and he spat out the toy and started snarling and screaming at me. He made such a noise that my husband came running in from outside thinking that the dog was attacking me. (He has bitten me in the past). Again, after a short time in his crate, he came out looking like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.

Apart from the aggression - which he only ever shows to me and my husband, to strangers and dogs we meet outside he's as friendly as you could hope for - he's also very destructive. Despite having a variety of chew toys, balls etc to play with, rotated to avoid boredom, he has chewed the curtains, the walls, the doors, his crate inside and out, mats, bedding, chairs, toilet sheets, ....even in winter I cannot give him a nice warm bed to sleep on, because he has chewed up and destroyed every dog bed, cushion and blanket I have given him. I'm scared that he will ingest something that will make him ill.

Given the run of the house, he listens to us only when it suits him. And he has learned that if he dives under the sofa or the dining table and bares his teeth, we can't get him out. With his lead on and left trailing, he's more obedient and in a pinch he can he controlled using the lead, so that's what we do. I would so much like to have him free in the house with no lead, but so far all our attempts to do so have ended in failure.

My biggest problem though, is the sudden random bouts of aggression. When he's 'normal' he's pretty typical for a Shiba, I suppose. When he's not, it's almost like he's possessed. I've started to wonder if perhaps there's something wrong with his brain that causes him to 'flip' like this, or maybe some kind of hormone imbalance? Can anyone point me to any particular checks I should ask my vet to do? This little dog was probably born on a puppy farm and was passed from person to person before he came to us, and I want to do whatever I can to make him into a happy family pet. If anyone has any advice at all, I'd be really, really grateful.
ladybug1802
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by ladybug1802 »

Hi...sorry but I dont have much time, so will come back later, but have just skim read your post and a couple of things stood out.

By your husband grabbing his lead and taking him into his crate, this is making his crate a place of punishment, where it really needs to be his safe place - somewhere he goes to feel secure and safe and where nobody will bother him. You shouldnt be putting him in there to punish him. Instead I would just ignore him and leave the room for 10 seconds, then come back.

Also, why is the crate door being shut whenever he goes in? I understand if you ask him to go in there and need to shut the door for a reason, but from your post it sounds as if, even when he goes in there of his own accord to sleep, you then go and shut the door?
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Mattie
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by Mattie »

I would have him checked by a vet including bloods if he was my dog, I would rule out any health problems, he may be getting bouts of pain which could cause this behaviour. Once health problems was ruled out then come back and we will help.
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Taro's Mum
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by Taro's Mum »

Thank you for replying!

ladybug1802 - I understand what you're saying about the crate. It's where he sleeps at night, and where he spends time during the day when I can't watch him. He may go in there on his own to fetch a toy or to drink from his water bottle (in which case the door stays open, of course), but he never goes in to just lie down or sleep, only when he's told to. (I would love for him to use his crate as a place to rest on his own accord, but as I mentioned, there's no bedding in there - usually if he wants a nap, he prefers to stretch out on the living room carpet. Can't say I blame him.)

Sometimes I send him into his crate, praise & treat him, then call him out and praise and treat again. When he's told to go in and goes, he always gets a treat. I try to make it as happy a place as possible for him, even if it isn't very cozy. When he is having one of his 'turns' and is put in his crate for the sake of our safety, we make a point of not scolding him; whether he sees it as a 'time out' rather than punishment, or if he even remembers it once he returns to normal, I don't know. We try not to make it a punishment.

The reason my husband put him in the crate when he was snarling yesterday was simply to separate him from us. He has bitten before when in this state - once badly enough for me to need medical attention - and neither of us want to be bitten again. Us leaving the room would be another option, except that Taro was between me and the door and I would have had to approach him before I could leave....and wouldn't he see us leaving as us running away? The reason I shut the door on him today was that he was already snarling and acting 'odd', and to be honest, I really am afraid of being bitten again.

Mattie - What should I be asking the vet to look for? What else besides blood?
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Mattie
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by Mattie »

You need a full check, including in the bloods for thyroid test, there are 2 of them, you want the better one. Your vet should test all his joints and spine to see if there is any pain.

A lot of problems will show up in blood tests quite some time before there are symptoms of them so you want as much done as you can.
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ladybug1802
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by ladybug1802 »

As Mattie said, definitely a good idea for a full vet check to rule medical problems out first of al/.

With his crate, why is there no bedding in it if he sleeps there at night? Or have I read that totally wrong?! :wink: Is it covered over? For example, my dog's crate is covered on 3 sides.....with part od the throw folded back so I can cover the front if need be. he has a big comfy doggy duvet in there as well, and he does go in there to sleep during the day and night, as well as on his regular bed. When it is covered and cosy it is more of a den....but not that that will really affect his behaviour!
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minkee
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by minkee »

Ladybug - Taro's Mum mentioned that he tears up any bedding, cushions etc. I assume this is why the crate can't be cosier.
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ladybug1802
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by ladybug1802 »

Ah so sorry! The perils of skim reading while at work!!
wigglebum
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by wigglebum »

Sorry that this is my first post and I will go and will go and introduce myself in a moment, but this story reminds me so much of my Sophie. When you described the "hard" look in his eye do you mean kind of like glazing over? Sophie is a beagle who came to me through another chapter of the rescue I volunteer for. I definitely knew she had OCD the first few weeks I had her and called in my friend who is an applied animal behaviourist to confirm. We worked with her on behavior modification and impulse control for a year and she became much better, but still was having episodes every few days. By episodes I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IahzaUD6 ... ata_player

We decided it was time to call in the vet behaviorist for medicinal help while still continuing with modification, desensitization and impulse control. The Vet diagnosed her with Impulse control aggression (she has bitten us 5 times when having her fits) and OCD. Basically, Sophie is not normal, but can learn to act normally. Sophie is now on Clomipromine (sp.?) and is starting to forget her coping methods. Hopefully it won't be too long until we can wean her off the meds. I'm not a big proponent of medicating your dogs because they have behavioral problems and in my 7 years training and working with shelter dogs I have really only come across 2 that actually needed it. The other was a dog that was so fearful it would scream in it's sleep. :'(

After ruling out any kind of pain and trying behavior modification for quite a while your next step may be to seek out a Behaviourist who is a vet.

Try looking up Dr. Karen Overall and her Protocol for Relaxation. Keep a diary of the episodes so you can more accurately establish triggers and when they happen calmly walk away and into another room until it Has passed. Give yourself permission to do nothing when they happen, because at that moment your dog can understand and learn nothing. Once you can see an episode coming you can begin to use distraction and redirection to stop them in their tracks.
runlikethewind
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by runlikethewind »

My dog has these bouts of 'intolerance' with us. He's has blood tests (aggression panel testing). all negative. I just think he has extremely low tolerance levels of us. I have no idea how this came about but we are where we are. Backing off him and giving his space has meant he can relax around us now.

I firmly believe they are not impulse control issues and in fact are just part of his personality. Some dogs are more tolerant of us than others. I have learnt to understand and respect that with him. He is lucky he has us as his family, that is true, as his outlook could have been a lot worse.

He has not biten but he used to do the hard look and growling. Even the wrong pat on the back or chest can set him off. We don't touch him now UNLESS he comes to us for a scritch and then as we know and understand him now, we know how he likes this and when to stop.

I think dogs are like humans in that respect and we all differ in how well we tolerate space invasions or irritations if we are being stared at when we are eating etc!!! and I always remember a post here - dogs are not here for our cuddles and that should not be expected of them. I understand you want to have good behaviour out of him. I hope you can achieve a basic understanding of him without altering his behaviour through meds.

By the way, I found the video above diffficult to watch. That is surely an extreme case? What do others make of this. Poor girl.

I just did a quick search of OCD in dogs and the general thought is it's caused by stress, anxiety or boredom. Would it be fair to say then - rather to look at meds - to look at how you act, how your household is for your dog and his routine and how you enrich your dog's life for starters?
jakesmom
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by jakesmom »

Our dog had these strange staring episodes as well, Generally they were quite short and very intense and his body felt rigid, and he did attack someone.

Following advice on here we took him to the vets and he is now on phenobaritol for fits.

His intense staring has stopped, but he now has major OCD and chases shadows and lights constantly if the sun is shining. He is in a world of his own, and we can't distract with anything other than a walk, but that is only because there will be even more shadows to chase. Quite honestly he's a danger to us because he sees things that we can't, and suddenly turns, ties us up in his lead and yanks us with such speed and strength that we now hate taking him out during sunlight hours.

I do wonder if it was the lack of lights and shadows when we first had him that created the staring fits in the first place - withdrawal symptoms possibly :?

Otherwise, he's lovely.
wigglebum
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by wigglebum »

Yes and we did try enrichment as well. It did nothing. We bought her a treadmill thinking maybe we weren't exercising her enough. She'd be exhausted and still spin and grab her tail. She was just pure anxiety. We tried abandonment thinking it might be attention seeking behaviour, but no to that as well. Distraction, redirection and desensitization are what go her to where it was tolorable for everyone. We started on the drugs a year after working with her in an effort to end it completely. If we can get her to forget her coping behaviors and redirect to a more appropriate one, she develops a better coping method when she is anxious. Since dogs lose anxiety through using their mouths and brains, she is now to the point where she seeks out chew toys and puzzle toys to cope. That video was when we first got her to show the rescue what we were dealing with. Both behaviorists were surprised to see this behavior as I suspect this is a pretty rare condition. I certainly had never seen or heard of a dog like this either....until I got Sophie. After her I got word of another beagle acting just like her. There is another video of her running laps in the yard and rhythmically barking. I am experienced with all kinds of aggression and knew right away this didn't fit.
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by emmabeth »

I really do think this dog needs a thorough check up by a vet, and I really do mean thorough. A thyroid problem could cause behaviour like this, sudden aggressiveness.

As well as this though I think some of the things you have done have not been quite right - what you describe about fixing his food aggression is 'nearly' there, but you still punished him by withholding food if he growled which means he still thinks that you + food is a potentially risky situation.

His aggression is a symptom of fear - it could be a fear of pain, it could be that this fear is caused by a medical problem, some of it may be learned, but at the heart of it is fear.

So punishing it is not going to work because you are punishing fear.

Have a think about how everything is set up in your house and within his routine, and try to manage things so that IF he suddenly feels fearful and needs to behave this way, you CAN get out of the situation without escalating the level of conflict/threat towards him.

I totally appreciate why you put him in his crate when he aggressed over food, but I suspect that this is also causing the issue about crating him. You need to set things up so that you are never in that situation again (the trailing leash kept on him is a good step towards this).

At meal times from now on, I would put his bowl down as far away from teh door as possible and walk away and leave him COMPLETELY until he is finished.
Then I would call him out of that room for fuss/praise or a reward he cant guard (off the top of my head, a lick of cheese spread or meat paste from your hand or possibly a home-made target 'lollypop' (so squidge a smear of spread on it, let him lick it whil you hold it, take it away put it out of reach once its clean, a spoon would do!), THEN with him in th e other room and the door closed, remove the bowl, do whatever you need to do in there and dont let him back in until the bowl is gone.

Until you are sure that he doesnt have an underlying health problem, I would not address the guarding issues in any other way - because they do all involve some degree of risk of you being bitten and making the problem worse.

Once you konw what the problem is and are dealing with it, or know that there isnt a problem, we can tell you how to re-do some of the lessons hes learned a slightly different way with no confrontation or punishment.
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Mattie
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by Mattie »

The reason I only said vet check and didn't say anything about the problems is because often owners are not in a position of taking in a lot of information because they are completely stressed out with the problems, like dogs humans don't take information in very well when stressed. Little and often is much better.

Thanks Emmabeth for starting of the information to help this owner.

Taro's Mum wrote: When we first went to see him, it was obvious that he had had no training at all and was out of control, running around nipping ankles; but after I had played with him for half an hour or so with a clicker, he was sitting on cue, making eye contact and looking attentive. Darn cute pup, intelligent too. I've lived with dogs most of my life, and I was pretty confident that I could train him.
Please don't take what I am saying as attacking you, I am not, I am just trying to say were things went wrong and if possible how to solve them.

Did you use the clicker for half an hour? If you did it was far too long, a few minutes clicker, a play, a few minutes clicker will teach him better.
So, we took him home. At first any attempt to touch him would elicit a snap and a wrinkly muzzle; trying to wipe his feet on coming in from the garden would send him into a full-scale temper tantrum, with Taro screaming and attempting to bite. Using the clicker and lots of patience, I gradually got him to tolerate a person being near him - a hand near him - a hand on him - a hand stroking him - all the way to ear scratches, tummy tickles and cuddles. And of course, wiping muddy paws. Success.
Sounds like his previous experiences of humans hasn't been good.
At the same time we discovered that he had food guarding issues. When I put his food bowl in front of him, instead of eating he would stand over the bowl growling and snarling. Any high-value resource, like a stuffed kong, would elicit the same kind of reaction from him. I tackled this by, first of all, cutting out the stuffed kongs. Cutting out meals wasn't an option of course, so I tried various tactics such as putting down an empty bowl and putting just half a handful of food in it when he was sitting quietly. Any sign of aggression meant no more food until he was quiet again. I also tried feeding him directly from my hand.
It took a long time, but we finally got him accepting meals normally.
This is one of the easiest problems to solve, from what you say it looks like he had reason to guard his food at his previous home.

Walking past their empty food bowl and dropping in a small amount of food, when eaten do it again and again until their food has gone. There is no need to have total control of the dog by making them sit and be quite, I doubt I would be if food was witheld from me when I was hungry. We need to make us walking past their food bowl something nice to happen to the dog, my making them sit and wait is not teaching the dog good things happen when we walk past. It has never taken more than 24 hours for a dog to change their guarding habbits done this way. There will be dogs that this takes longer but never happened to me.

For the Kongs etc. do a swop for something that is much higher value to your dog, when you have a Greyhound threatening to take your face off you start to think outside the box. With Merlin I solved it by running out of the room saying in a very high excited voice, "Look what I have got", then rattle the treat tin in the kitchen. Merlin came racing out, he had done what I wanted came after me and left what he was guarding behind so was given a high reward treat. I was then able to go into the other room, first shutting the kitchen door for safety, and pick up what he was guarding. This not only taught him not to guard but his recall was 100% as long as I said "Look what I have got" :lol:
BUT there are times when he becomes a different dog. When this happens his face changes; there is a 'hard' look in his eyes. The trigger is usually food, either his meal or a treat, but sometimes there seems to be no apparent trigger. For no discernible reason, he will drop a treat he has just been given, stand over it, and show his teeth to whoever gave him the treat; or stand growling over his meal. Sometimes when he goes into his crate (whether asked to do so, or on his own), he will suddenly turn around snarling and try to bite the hand of anyone shutting the door. Normally he's very good at walking on the lead, but every now and then when we're out he'll suddenly start running to and fro with his ears back and tail tucked under his bottom, for all the world as if he is being chased. When this happens he may sometimes bite his lead, or even try to bite my hand.
I suspect that your dog has been made this way by his previous owner but health problems should be ruled out first, there is always a trigger, sometimes we don't see it.
Another person took Taro off their hands, but living in a small flat and with a job and a toddler,
Toddlers do a lot of damage to dogs if their parents don't control them, from what you are describing is typical of a dog brought up with toddlers that are not checked, he has had to guard his food etc. he may have had his eyes, ears etc poked and prodded which was very painful, he may have had his ears and fur pulled continously which made him fear hands. To me your dog sounds typical of a dog that has been abused by toddlers.

For the food I would feed him in a room were he can eat in peace without anyone being there for a while, let him realise that the food is his and nobody is going to take it off him. This won't last forever, eventually you will be able to work at the other side of the room but first he needs to feel safe when eating. With Kongs etc. again leave him in peace preferably in another room, same with treats, let him learn that nobody will touch him. This works much better than trying to train them to accept all these, the dog is more relaxed and so is the owners because nothing is happening and not expected to.

My latest dog Cyril was close to death when the Dog Warden picked him up, he had lost all his fat and muscle with starvation, being a Staffy he looked very odd. I have never had any food problems with him because from the first he arrived at my home he was fed in another room with the door closed. 3 months after he arrived, he was able to eat in the caravan with my other dogs without any problems.
He had been 'good' for several months, and we thought he had finally grown out of his aggressive bouts; then yesterday when I gave him his evening meal, instead of eating it he stood between it and me, got 'that look' in his eyes, and showed me his teeth. I told him not to be silly and to eat his dinner, at which point he started to snarl in earnest. My husband grabbed his lead (which he wears even in the house - more about that later) and put him, still snarling, in his crate. Thirty minutes later when I let him out again, it was as if nothing had happened; he licked my hands and snuggled up to me, and ate his dinner no problem. He could have been a different dog.
Something triggered this, I would have put the bowl down and walked away even if he did behave like this, to him he has a very good reason, by talking to him you were reinforcing that reason. If you had walked away he wouldn't have upped his behaviour.

House leads are very good if you have a problem dog, I always have one on any new dog that comes into my home.
Tonight I gave him his evening meal as usual, told him he could eat, and walked across to the other side of the room to tidy some things away. Taro sniffed at his food, and he may have eaten a bit. Then he picked up one of his toys that was lying near his bowl, rushed across the room and into his crate where he stood snarling at me with the toy still in his mouth. I shut the crate door, and he spat out the toy and started snarling and screaming at me. He made such a noise that my husband came running in from outside thinking that the dog was attacking me. (He has bitten me in the past). Again, after a short time in his crate, he came out looking like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.
Has his food or bowl changed? I would walk out of the room until he had finished eating once you put it down, much safer for you and your safety has to come first.
Apart from the aggression - which he only ever shows to me and my husband, to strangers and dogs we meet outside he's as friendly as you could hope for - he's also very destructive. Despite having a variety of chew toys, balls etc to play with, rotated to avoid boredom, he has chewed the curtains, the walls, the doors, his crate inside and out, mats, bedding, chairs, toilet sheets, ....even in winter I cannot give him a nice warm bed to sleep on, because he has chewed up and destroyed every dog bed, cushion and blanket I have given him. I'm scared that he will ingest something that will make him ill.
There are some herbal remedies that may help but until he has seen a vet I can't suggest anything, I find these help with some of my dogs.
Given the run of the house, he listens to us only when it suits him. And he has learned that if he dives under the sofa or the dining table and bares his teeth, we can't get him out. With his lead on and left trailing, he's more obedient and in a pinch he can he controlled using the lead, so that's what we do. I would so much like to have him free in the house with no lead, but so far all our attempts to do so have ended in failure.
He will teach you more about dogs than any dog you have had previously :D

I wouldn't be in a hurry to leave the house lead off, it doesn't hurt him and does help, it also makes dealing with him much safer for you.
My biggest problem though, is the sudden random bouts of aggression. When he's 'normal' he's pretty typical for a Shiba, I suppose. When he's not, it's almost like he's possessed. I've started to wonder if perhaps there's something wrong with his brain that causes him to 'flip' like this, or maybe some kind of hormone imbalance? Can anyone point me to any particular checks I should ask my vet to do? This little dog was probably born on a puppy farm and was passed from person to person before he came to us, and I want to do whatever I can to make him into a happy family pet. If anyone has any advice at all, I'd be really, really grateful.
Turn your thinking round, it will help you cope with this, you have a very frightened, nervous dog who is trying to protect himself, he doesn't know he is safe yet, sometimes that can take years for a dog to learn, some never do completely trust. When you are interacting with him smile, this will soften your body language and make it easier for him to read you and know that he isn't going to be abused, I am 99% sure he was by toddlers.

You have a lot of information, probably to much to take in, first you need to relax so open a bottle of wine and chill, the less stressed you are the better for him and you. Anything you don't understand or forget, just ask, it is why we are hear. Advice may need to be tweaked anyway as he adapts and relaxes.
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Taro's Mum
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Re: Jekyll and Hyde dog

Post by Taro's Mum »

Wow, thank you all so much for your replies.

I will get him to the vet for a health check in the very near future. I did get the vet to look at him when we first got him, but there were no blood tests or thyroid checks, just a quick once-over. This time I'll know what to ask for.

wigglebaum - The video of poor Sophie is very difficult to watch. It's good that she is getting better. I don't think Taro has Sophie's problem, though; his eyes don't glaze over, they become hard and piercing (can't think of any better way to describe it), and he looks angry. Normally he has the typical Shiba 'smile', but at the start of an episode he loses the smile, closes his mouth and his lip begins to twitch. Then we get the wrinkly nose and the showing of the teeth, followed by the growling and snarling. In the past I've learned that the next stage is a lunging bite, but thankfully we've learned to avoid this for the past 10 months.

runlikethewind - Touch doesn't seem to be one of Taro's triggers. When he first came to us he couldn't be touched, but gradually he has learned to accept touching, patting, stroking, grooming, etc., and to enjoy it. Shibas shed like nobody's business, so not being able to groom would have us living in a fur-lined house in no time! Now he loves having his neck and chest brushed and having the base of his tail scratched, and will come asking for this kind of attention. Shibas are not generally touchy-feely cuddly dogs, but when he's 'sane' he seems to quite enjoy being touched, now.

jakesmom - You're so lucky to have a dog you can describe as lovely! Taro will also chase shadows, such as the light from the torch when I take him out after dark, but he's not obsessive about it - it's just one more thing to chase, and if the light stops moving he isn't interested anymore. He's no problem on walks, is great at loose-lead walking - except when he does his running-backwards-and-forwards thing I described earlier.

emmabeth - I never thought that I was punishing him by 'withholding food' - rather, I thought I was rewarding him for not snarling.....two sides of the same coin? This evening he started showing his teeth and growling when I took out the food container to give him his meal. Instead of putting the food down (which I thought would be rewarding his growling) I measured out his meal, waited till he was quiet, and put one handful at a time in his bowl for him to eat. With about a third of the food still left, he lost interest and wandered away to find a toy to play with. I've noticed that he tends to have less appetite when he's in one of his moods.
His recall has never been very good, so I do call him at odd times to give him a yummy treat and teach him that coming to Mum is always a good thing, but with only middling success. I'll try it after his meals, and also try upping the yumminess of the treats.

Mattie - 'completely stressed out' is right! I've never had a dog this difficult, this tiring, this dangerous.
When I first met him, I took turns playing with him with my husband and adult son - a bit of clicker, a bit of throwing toys for him to fetch (or not...), a chat with the owner, a bit more clicker... so no, it wasn't 30 solid minutes of clicker drill!

As I mentioned earlier, being a pet shop pup he was probably born on a puppy farm, taken from his mother too early and passed around from person to person. The very nice lady we got him from was very concerned to get him into a good home, and I'm sure she did nothing to hurt him. But, she did have to leave him alone all day and the presence of a toddler wasn't conducive to a peaceful puppyhood, though she was doing her best to keep them separate, with baby gates all over the flat, toddler on one side and puppy on the other.

I did all the dropping food in the bowl, adding to it while he's eating, etc., stuff; when he's sane, there's no problem at all, he's like a normal dog. When he's not sane, the trigger can apparently be, like this evening, the very thought of dinner, before it's even been put down in front of him. There's been no change in either his bowl or his food, no reason as far as I can see for him to lose it. Until a couple of days ago, we'd had quite a long period of normality and I'd thought we were doing quite well.

I've also used the 'swapping one resource for a better one' tactic, usually to retrieve something he's stolen that he shouldn't have in the first place; but it only works when he's sane. Engaging with him in any way when he's 'gone' can cause him to go into a barking biting frenzy and even on a couple of occasions to lose control of his bladder. Now we make a point of giving him high-value treats like toys with goodies inside only when he's in his crate, so that if he does lose it we can shut the door, leave him alone to calm down and save ourselves from a bite.

A house lead on a new dog is, as you say, a good idea....but he's been with us for nearly two years now. He's not a new dog any more!
Mattie wrote:open a bottle of wine and chill
Excellent piece of advice, which I'm going to take immediately! :wink:
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