Just need some advice...

[Horace's Mum]

Hi, I will introduce myself properly soon, but I just need to check some behavioural things are normal. In brief, I have rescued a JRTxcollie who is deaf, 2 years old, been in kennels 17months now. He has a couple of issues, mainly related to not being helped to accomodate for his deafness in the outside world, but I will go into them elsewhere as I don't think they are particularly relevant to this. I have had him 3 weeks.
Basically, he has just got into the habit of humping his toys. I know this is not unusual behaviour, and it didn't bother me particularly intil today. He doesn't stand up, he lies on his side with his (small) toys pushed between his back legs with his frong legs, and then just goes for it. He has done this for an hour before now (I can distract him easily, but he goes back to it immediately). There are only a couple of toys so far that he does it with. BUT, today I noticed that he was getting so stimulated (?) by it that all his equipment was out and at the ready! This is what I would like to check, because I haven't come across this before. He was neutered as a puppy/at the appropriate age (by Dogstrust), so that shouldn't affect him. He doesn't do it with anything else, not me, not furniture, not standing up! Just lying down on the floor...
He has 3-4 walks a day, between 2-4 hours in total, and we train and play every day as well. His food is always in a kong or similar to prevent bolting and boredom. Why does he do this? And should I be worried?

[emmabeth]

Hmmmm

I would be slightly worried - not panic panic worried though.

Its not the behaviour itself that worries me, its the duration and the obsession.

You do need to take a holistic view of this.

For now, I would recommend just watching and learning rather than actively doing something about it.

Do lots of stuff with him (don't just watch him hump himself all day long ) and make careful note about how he reacts, how he handles things, how he learns and how he thinks.

I highly suspect that such a long time in confinement with, due to being deaf, even less mental stimulation than a hearing dog in a kennel situation, he has found this behaviour very rewarding and quite probably a coping strategy.

It could be a stereotypey behaviour, (seen in chipmunks turning perpetual somersaults in their cages, zoo animals pacing the same track day in day out), and if that is the case, asides from the sexual aspect of it being pleasant for him, the repetative behaviour and action will release endorphins into his brain that are extremely pleasurable... and addictive.

In times of stress, just as smokers will chain smoke and drinkers pour a whisky.... he turns to his addiction and coping strategy.... and humps.

I do feel treating the symptom directly by say trying to correct him, or remove his outlet for it, would be a bad idea, potentially dangerous so you must look to the rest of his life to remove the root cause first.

You have only had him three weeks which is a very short space of time to get to know him, and of course as we all do... you have a human brain and its a struggle to think doggy thoughts.

That will come, with time, and spending a LOT of time reading books about doggy body language (try Turid Rugaas... your eyes will be opened!), and about how dogs learn.

Look at how he reacts to every day situations, meeting people, other dogs, other animals, going in cars or on buses.

You can adapt the method in the clicker training thread stickied at the top of this forum, to using a small flashlight instead of a clicker which neatly gets round the deafness problem.

This type of training will increase his bond with you, and his confidence in both himself and you which will do wonders towards ending his need to perform the obsessive behaviour.

More time spent walking and training means less time spent humping his toy as well and as you and he begin to be able to communicate better, hes frustration levels should drop too, again giving him less need to perform the behaviour.

I would also, allow him to be wherever he feels the most comfortable and relaxed - if he were mine and that meant on my bed, so be it - the idea right now is to reduce his stress levels to an absolute minimum. You can always retrain him to new rules when he can communicate with you and understand, and is not worried or frustrated.

Other than the above.. dont force him into anything, and dont let anyone else do that either, dont get angry with him - avoid confrontations rather than try to win them.

I would recommend you also see a reputable behaviourist (ukrcb preferably).

[Owdb1tch]

Agree 100% with all that, and just to add that Bach flower remedies will offer support through this adjustment time. Have a look through some books on them -I recommend those by Martin Scott and Gael Mariani.

It's perfectly common for neutered dogs to be capable of 'going all the way'. Collies are endorphin freaks but luckily yours is only half collie, so get the jrt side going with lots of training, walks and learning that the outside world has its entertainment value too.

Poor little chap. He must have been so lonely. Lucky to have you now.

[Mattie]

Bach Flower Remedies are very good for all sorts, I have used them on myself in the past as well as my dogs. If you go to http://www.bachshop.co.uk/catalog/index ... f427fd7a3d, it is a questionaire to help you work out which remedies your dog needs and you can mix together up to 6 remedies. If you need help with dosing him, let me know.

He is a very lucky boy to have found you and you are going to learn a lot about dogs now

[Horace's Mum]

Thanks for your replies. I maybe should add that he doesn't do this all the time, maybe I made it sound like he does it a lot because I was anxious when I wrote the post, but I have only seen him do it twice since having him, it was just the extent he went to that I wondered about.
I do walk and play and train as much as I can. He is with me all the time, so I do know what he gets up to. Generally he has chilled out immensely since the first few days, he just tends to curl up and sleep a lot of the time we are at home (mainly evenings!). I don't use a light to clicker train with, as he works very well with a thumbs up, which I find easier to manage because I always have my thumbs with me - this way he can be "clicked" absolutely anywhere, at any time, not just when I remember to bring his "clicker".
I had thought that he may have developed this habit to relieve stress in the kennels, and I will follow that up with the dogstrust to see if they noticed it.
I have dealt with it so far by getting up and distracting him (it distracts him just me standing up, so that is not difficult), then I did take the toy away the other day, but played with him with a different toy and he seemed quite happy, carried on playing with it on his own once we finished. It seems to be just slightly larger toys that he is attracted to, the smaller ones he just shakes around his head. But I will bear in mind that it may cause him distress, I don't want to do that.
I will also look into some remedies for him - I used to use them on my pony and use rescue remedy myself, so I am happy to try them, just didn't know which ones. Thanks for the link!
He has been fine today, we have been out at dog training (first class we participated in and he did me proud!) and now he is konked out at my feet!
I have several other issues, none big, but should I put them on this thread or start a new one each time and tackle them one by one?!

[emmabeth]

Stick em on this thread as even if they dont appear related, they may be deep down.

He really has fallen on his feet with you I have to say, and what a great idea the thumbs up thing!

[Horace's Mum]

Ok, here we go...! I will try and be concise, but this could be a long email, bear with me....
Horace is 2 years old and has been in kennels for 17months. He was rescued as a puppy with his littermates (3), they were all rehomed as puppies but all have developed behavioural problems severe enough to be returned to the kennels. Horace is by far the best behaviourally, but has the added problem of being deaf. They were starved and abused as puppies, and we are not sure if this may have cause some brain damage. Horace has been deaf since birth.
Horace was returned as he was reported to have bitten his owner. She was making the bed, shaking the sheets up and down, Horace walked into the room, she flung her arm out to tell him to get out and he jumped up and got her arm. He did break the skin. She also reported that he lunges at people and dogs when walking, and is generally badly behaved. He is also reported to have become aggressive when "told to do something".
I will try to be honest here, otherwise it is pointless asking for help. Since I have had Horace (3 weeks now), he has been generally well behaved. He is very good in the house, will stay where I tell him (once we learnt "stay" which took about 2 days), will stay out of the kitchen when I am cooking, even with the door open, will move where I ask him by pointing (most of the time!) and is generally very pleasant to have around. The only aggression I have had towards me is growling when he has a treat such as Dentastix or tripe chews - he is fine with his food and toys. At present I stroke him, if he starts growling I stay quietly stroking and talking (he picks up on vibrations some of the time, an it helps to keep me calm!) until he is quiet, then I leave him to it. It has never gone beyond a growl, even with me stroking his head.
He has changed a lot since arriving, but there are still obviously a few obsessive behaviours, the main one being pacing when he is anxious or bored. He paced continuosly for the first 24hours Ihad him, so I get the feeling he did this a lot in kennels. I should stress that this has reduced considerably, he does it for 1-3mins then finds a toy to play with or goes for his chew now. All the doors in the house are left open for him, as he gets distressed if he cannot choeck the house over every 10-15 mins or so. This includes at night, although he no longer wakes me so I don't think he does it as much. He sleeps next to my bed but in his own bed. He is not allowed on the sofa or the bed - apart from anything else he wriggles too much! Can I stress that I have [/u]never had any problem asking him to move or leave the room.
Outside he does get excited when we play. He walks beautifully on a loose lead (after a few days of lots of stopping and waiting), but pulls when distracted by other dogs. I would not say he lunges, and he is improving, but he really does not like going past other dogs so they end up behind him - he will walk backwards until they are out of sight. He has actually walked into a brick wall trying to walk backwards to keep a dog in sight. He does not go off lead, but gets a run on a 60ft line several times a week, and we use an indoor riding school to let him off completely, which is good fun. He has a mad few mins when we can't get near him, then he will happily come, train, send away, stay and recall without any bother. I live in a fairly rural area. He is not bothered about other animals except cats.
When we meet people in front of us he looks at them, can be quite wary, but does not lunge or approach them unless they approach him, in which case he is wuite happy providing they are fairly quiet and slow, and let him have a good sniff before they touch him. Sniffing seems to be the thing that has taken over his hearing the most, I am not convinced his sight is that brilliant either because he does seem to miss a lot. Although initially wary of young children, he has been absolutely fine after day2, as long as they are slow. He does not like things running past him.
If anything approaches from behind, I try to turn him round if it is a person or dog, so he knows they are there, but he does startle a lot if they take him by surprise within 3 feet of him. Having said that, we went to training yesterday, and he soon settled to watching me with dogs coming up from behind quite close, and he would just flick his eyes over when he saw them then look back at me for his turkey!
His previous home was quite chaotic, with 2 young children, and they did not really do any training with him. He had a vague sit and that was it. He is very boisterous when playing, very mouthy as if he hasn't learnt not to mouth properly (not unexpected with his deafness), and he does jump up with his mouth open when he gets excited. Having said that, if he does it to me at any time, then play stops, he is told "no" and "mouth shut", and he immediately sits down, waits to start again, and keeps his mouth to himself for the next 5 mins until he gets excited again. So he is learning slowly.
He wears a muzzle when we are in public (dogstrust policy for dogs who have bitten), and I put it on when he meets new people even in our house, because it is not worth the risk to him to give him chance to bite, but so far he has been fine if people take the time and let him sniff before approaching him or touching him. He is not possessive of the house, garden or car.
There are a couple of other things that I am unsure how to handle. One is his habit of carrying his lead all the time, obviously not when he wears his muzzle, but when we are alone in the country I take his muzzle off. At the moment if he starts I just stop and wait for him to let go before continuing, but he just can't seem to help himself. If I let him hold it we end up playing tug and getting too excited. I get the feeling he has learnt this because it is cute and has got away with it, but I really don't want him to do it as it distracts him too much.
The other thing that is curious, although does not bother me, is his barking. His vocalities are a bit weird and generally out of context, but he will just start barking for no real reason, or at a tiny reflection or something. Sometimes he jumps up and runs to a different place and barks, as if he has heard something. I wonder sometimes whether he has tinnitus? He will settle if I call him, say he is ok and stroke him once (not a big fuss).
Oh, also a lot of his problems with other dogs are that he misses them growling, so thinks they will play and then they go for him and he wonders why. He does stare a lot, at everything. Other dogs tend to be upset by his muzzle. His hackles rise at absolutely everything, which combined with the muzzle make him look really vicious!
My feeling, and that of the behaviourist at dogstrust, is that he has not been very well socialised with people or dogs, especially dogs. He has also not been helped to cope with his deafness, for example desensitizing him to things coming up behind and touching him. The only time when I know he might snap is if a person, dog or horse comes up too close behind and he either sees it or it touches him and he respondes without thinking. If it is a person he then backs off and then creeps forwards to say hello and is friendly. He is fine with me touching him anytime, including waking him up, so He is gradually getting used to people touching him without warning (with the help of a few friends). Otherwise he is a terrific dog, very friendly and sociable, but struggling to cope with a hearing world and he hasn't got much self control! Any ideas?
Sorry this is soooooo long, but I wanted to give you the whole picture!

[Horace's Mum]

Oh my god, I have no idea what happened there, it kept saying it couldn't do it then it came up 3 times! Can you delete 2 of them please?!?

I should also say that Horace is my first dog, although I have a fair bit of experience having worked as a vet nurse, ran a canine hydrotherpay unit and dogsat a few dogs. I love training and have done a bit in the past, not to any level, just for fun at home.

I was also looking for a deaf dog specifically, because I know they are hard to home simply because people are daunted by the need to sign (even though most people use signs when they train but don't realise it). I have a huge amount of experience with people with various disabilities, and I have been siging Makaton (a simple sign language) for several years, so siging is natural to me. The aim is to teach Makaton to Horace, rather than have our own language that no one else will remember. So far so good!

[Horace's Mum]

Just thought of something else that is relevant. I am positive that Horace has been hit quite a lot in the past. This may be partly why he jumps up at hands waving above him. Every so often, maybe if he is not quite awake or if he is being a bit enthusiastic and boisterous, when I sign to him to sit or stay (or almost anything to be honest) he flinches and looks very scared until he realises I haven't moved and then remembers what the sign means. I usually give him lots of quiet praise once he has remembered what I was asking, and ignore the scared behaviour to give him chance to settle and remember. Also all my signs are close to the body and fairly controlled, except "away" which is only ever used out on the long line so he knows what it means and doesn't get confused.

[emmabeth]

Right, (got rid of your extra posts for you).

It does sound very much as if he has been hit and hit hard in the past, I think the way you are handling that though is fine.

Couple of things I think you ought to change..

1/ If he growls when you are touching him.. just stop. It MAY work, I can see your intention behind what you are doing there... but it could also back fire badly with someone else, and the danger is you wont know until that happens.

Instead, since it seems to be closely linked to him having food, I would practice first him swapping treats for better treats with you, you feeding him with your hands in the bowl (put food in bowl, put your hand in there under the food, offer him the food, as long as he is not likely to accidentally bite you).

He needs to know that when he says 'hey im not comfy with this' he will be listened to, some deaf dogs dont growl at all and its actually good that he does - if he doesnt... he could go straight to biting as he would percieve that growling is ineffective.

I am happy if my dogs are ok for me to move around them whilst they are eating, move their bottoms over out of the way whilst they are eating, have me touch them as i go past as they are eating..

I would not expect them to be happy being constantly fussed whilst eating though (although mine would be), so I definately wouldnt expect it from this little guy right now. Stick to teaching him via swapses and other totally non confrontational methods that you touching = food, you going past = food (put down a bowl with a few bits of kibble in, as he finishes walk past and drop in a few more so he sees that they fall into the bowl), you being near him with a treat means another treat.

This way you minimise the risk of him accidentally thinking a person walking past with food will push him past his comfort zone and lashing out.

The lead holding thing is fairly simple, if boring.

Use a chain lead rather than one he can comfortably chew on.. when he takes hold of it, you stop dead. Walk continues when he lets go. Just do that religiously and he will get the idea.

With other dogs - muzzles DO confuse communication with other dogs and the ideal would be if you can find other dogs he can play with without the muzzle. That is unlikely with dogs you meet in the park so youd need to seek out a behaviourist who has stooge dogs. The only one I know of to recommend would be Angela Stockdale who has a great deal of experience with fear aggression, poorly socialised dogs etc, and her stooge dogs will not react badly to a dog wearing a muzzle.

With plenty of practice he should be able to recognise body language other than growling that goes with the 'i dont want to play, back off buddy' type dogs, you could also improve that by teaching him a 'stop, not safe' command.... with deaf dogs these things take a lot of practice as he will have to learn to look back to you for reassurance that things are safe.. and until he is more confident and trusting of you he will find that hard to do.

For self control you can play games that involve him waiting to do something and restraining himself, and when he is good at that, games where he must restrain himself from one thing, go and do another and then go back to the first thing.

I think most of his problems will be resolved with time and patience. I would definately try Bach Flower Remedies as mattie linked and if someone can offer him reiki that would not go amiss (not me i cant do that, tis beyond me), also have a look at Ttouch and see if that would help him to relax and trust more.

[Ocelot0411]

Good lord poor Horace! That's an awful lot of trauma for such a young dog, to be honest, coupled with his hearing problems I am surprised he is doing as well as he is.

Its lovely to hear that this little fella has finally found a good home where he will be helped and understood. I wish you both the very best of luck and please keep us posted as to how you are both getting on. Also we would very much like some pictures of him please! There is a thread on the general discussions board for posting pictures.

[Owdb1tch]

I think you are doing terrifically well and it sounds as if Horace has made huge progress already. I reckon there is every chance of overcoming the greater part of his problems as long as you maintain strict control - not of Horace but of the people who want to interact with him.

As well as Emm's advice, I suggest you feed him sometimes out of your hands. Hold your hands cupped with food in and sit so that he and you are not face to face but you are comfortably above him. Then just leave your hands open, let him eat the food in them and lick your fingers. Watch him look up and smile at you as he realises hands can be good things after all.

[Mattie]

if someone can offer him reiki that would not go amiss (not me i cant do that, tis beyond me), also have a look at Ttouch and see if that would help him to relax and trust more.

I can, i am a Reiki Master , I also have information on TTouch if Horace's Mum would like it.

Horace's Mum, can you send me your email address and a picture of Horace please?

[Ocelot0411]

For self control you can play games that involve him waiting to do something and restraining himself, and when he is good at that, games where he must restrain himself from one thing, go and do another and then go back to the first thing.

Oooh oooh, I have a game that will cover all of the above (excuse the excitement but I am pleased to finally add something to this post as its all been a bit out of my league so far ).

The game is called 'mousy' and is a particular favourite of mine as my pup is highly excitable and struggles to control herself so this teaches her self control and also to concentrate.

All you do is get a piece of food, it needs to be something that rolls, so a bit of sausage or a bit of cheese string, and put in on the floor. When he goes to grab it you just put your hand over it to stop him getting it. After a few attempts he should just stand and stare at it, here comes the fun bit. When he is just looking at it, you suddenly flick it across the floor for him to run off and snaffle it. Then show him another bit of food and do the same.

With the breeds he has in him he should really enjoy the hunt / chase side of it and also it will teach him to hang fire to see what's going to happen to the food.

Eventually you should be able to get him to stand and stare at it for a good while, the other part of it is that you teach him if he takes his eyes of the 'mouse' (food) then the mouse goes back in its house (you just pick it up and close your hand). This should teach him to concentrate too.

Sorry I know this is very silly but its a fun little game that he should enjoy

[Ocelot0411]

No I am not loosing my mind Em, t'interwebulator is playing up so can you delete the post where I just quoted you. I mean your good, but that's taking it too far........