Heartbroken at strange agression

[lily_pad]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to the board and really need some advice (I hope someone is able to help). I have a 14 month old F Lab x Collie (1st season was at 10 months) who is a loving and friendly dog until recently. She has never had a problem with people or other dogs as she has been very well socialised since a pup. She is fantastic off the lead and responds to commands well and does not take off in the park (I will stress when we are playing/walking) when not on her lead whether there are other dogs around etc.

We took her camping with us for the first time a couple of months ago and thats when the first incident happened. We were sat relaxing at the campsite after playing and walking and she was happy and seemed herself until someone walked past where our site had been pitched and she shot off towards the people walking by and lunged down with her rear in the air, all the hairs down her spine were up and the most violent sounding barking was coming from her. I was terrified and went straight over to get her back and apologised to the people she had ran towards in this manner but I could not help but worry what had started this.

I thought it was a one off but it happened another 4 times during the camping trip to the point where we could not have her off the lead when we were sat at our camp. This did not happen to a particular type of person this was to children, men and women. When it happened to the children playing near us they were really upset and scared as you can imagine but i picked her up and took her over to them to show she 'just got a little frightened' and she was fine, let the boys play with her and they seemed happy enough and she was more than happy with them once I had taken her over to them to show there was nothing to worry about.

I thought it was just the camping trip that had been the problem but it has happened during a picnic in the park also when someone walked by. I am so upset and dont know what to do. Please help if you can. Thank you in advance

[ladybug1802]

Hi. I ncan totally relate to how upset this has made you - I have been there!! Sounds like your dog is scared of strangers, and the lungeing is her way of getting them to go away. Now, when she charged at these people, were they walking away from her/just walked past, or were they walking towards (in her direction)? And when she did lunge, did she snap/bite? If so, what did she do after this?

You should NOT take her over to strangers to let them see she is 'fine'....she is not 'fine' and this behaviour is her way of showing she is not happy and is fearful....by forcing her near these people it coudl well make her worse, but making her feel she is not being listened to, and putting her well out of her comfort zone.

Was this the first time you have noticed this behaviour? There may well have been small signs that go unnoticed.....such as how has she been with strangers in general? Has she approached them 9outside and inside the house, or has she tended to stay away from them? What happens when you meet people on walks?

Also, how much exercise does she get? What is her daily routine? What is she fed?

If you can answer some of these questions we can help yopu some more. My rescue dog is fearful of strangers and this showed by him lungeing and snapping at strangers when they walked past him, entered the house etc. He is a LOT better now, and I now know how to manage him and what to do. Have a look through some of my old posts and you will see how stressed I was....now I am chilled out with my pup and he is much better. We still have a few issues, but his fears are more phobic, but we are miles away from where we were last year.

For now I would maybe start by, if you see people coming towards you on walks, call her to you and get her at a safe distance from the people (a distance where she feels safe and wont react) and feed her yummy treats as the people walk by. UIt is important that this distance is where she feels safe...if she stares at them too hard, lunges, bark, or anything you need to increase the distance. You can slowly decrease the distance.

[Mattie]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to the board and really need some advice (I hope someone is able to help).

I have a 14 month old Lab x Collie ***** (1st season was at 10 months) who is a loving and friendly dog until recently. She has never had a problem with people or other dogs as she has been very well socialised since a pup. She is fantastic off the lead and responds to commands well and does not take off in the park (I will stress when we are playing/walking) when not on her lead whether there are other dogs around etc..

We took her camping with us for the first time a couple of months ago and thats when the first incident happened. We were sat relaxing at the campsite after playing and walking and she was happy and seemed herself until someone walked past where our site had been pitched and she shot off towards the people walking by and lunged down with her rear in the air, all the hairs down her spine were up and the most violent sounding barking was coming from her. I was terrified and went straight over to get her back and apologised to the people she had ran towards in this manner but I could not help but worry what had started this.

I thought it was a one off but it happened another 4 times during the camping trip to the point where we could not have her off the lead when we were sat at our camp. This did not happen to a particular type of person this was to children, men and women. When it happened to the children playing near us they were really upset and scared as you can imagine but i picked her up and took her over to them to show she 'just got a little frightened' and she was fine, let the boys play with her and they seemed happy enough and she was more than happy with them once I had taken her over to them to show there was nothing to worry about.

HUGS, and welcome to the forum. Do you live in the USA or UK? I don't know site rules in the USA but do in the UK. In the UK every dog on a camp site has to be on a lead or tied down, I have to do this when I go out in my caravan with my dogs. Like you I have a Collie/Lab b itch and I have to watch her when caravaning because she will do the same thing. Not sure why but to other people it does look really scary. I put windbreaks round so that she can't see people passing and find this works quite well unless you have an idiot who wants to stroke my dogs, the speed they can move back at when Bonnie reacts like this is quite impressive.

I thought it was just the camping trip that had been the problem but it has happened during a picnic in the park also when someone walked by. I am so upset and dont know what to do. Please help if you can. Thank you in advance

Do what I do, tie her up so she can't do this to people walking past your tent, same when going for a picnic, I would have her on a short lead so she couldn't run up to people like this. When Bonnie can't see people walking past she is a lot better and rarely responds like this.

Personally Collies or their crosses are the only breed of dog I don't automatically trust, give me any other breed of dog before a Collie. Yes they are lovely dogs but a normal family home will have problems meeting their needs.

[lily_pad]

Hi Ladybug, thanks for your response. with regards to your questions I will answer them in order..

When she charged at the people they were just walking by, not in the direction of us. She did not snap or anything she just stayed in the same position barking and crouched down with her rear up until I could get to her then she was fine.

The first time it happened was at camping and to me it literally came from no where. One minute she was sat quietly with us the next she was gone.
She is brilliant around strangers. That sounds strange when I am describing her behaviour and what she has done but walking on her lead people do not bother her and when we are playing in the park strangers do not bother her either. People she does not know can be close by or walk across our path and no response from her she seems totally normal. She has never ran off in the park to bark at anyone. It has only happened when we have been sat down in an area ie. the park during our picnic or the campsite.

With regards people coming into the home again it does not bother her. She gets excited it someone new to see and has never ever lunged or barked at anyone within the home whether they be total strangers or someone she has previously met.

I walk her twice a day, first thing in the morning for around 30 mins and then in the evening we are in the park for anything from 1 hour to maybe 2 on occasions when she is happy playing and running around and does not seem tired. If I am on night shift then she still sticks to the same routine with regards her walks and weekends are always away from work so we go for country walks or to the beach.
She is fed dry food twice a day and every other day she has chicken with veg or fish with veg and smaller amounts of her dry food.

[lily_pad]

Hi Mattie,

Thank you for my welcome

I live in the UK and although she has to be on her lead the site owners are lenient in respect to if your dog does not run off and cause problems they they do not have to be resricted to the lead. I obviously had to keep her on the lead when we were sat at the campsite once she had behaved in that manner.

You are right is does look scary. It is just hard for me to get my head around because she is the most loving and attentive dog and then this agression just happens.
We tried moving the wind breakers around and making our pitch a little more secluded so she could not see others walking by but we need one more windbreaker to achieve it fully lol.

When she was on her lead and sat down it did not happen at all but I dont want to have to keep her tied to a lead at all times I would like to be able to get to the bottom of what is happening and stop it so we can relax when we are away with her etc..

I know it may not be able to happen and maybe when we are sat in the park or on the campsite but I would like to try and settle the behaviour if I can in someway

[Mattie]

I am in he same position as you, Bonnie is really good normally but not when in the caravan, I have been trying for nearly 6 years to stop this and this is the only way.

Dogs don't suffer from being tied up outside a caravan or tent, mine are only outside when I can sit with them, they are happy because they love going caravaning. You can get puppy play pens which you can put round but dogs can see through them. It will only take one person to say that your dog has bitten them for you to be told to keep her under control, it doesn't matter if she bit the person or not, to that person they think they have been bitten. It isn't worth taking the chance to me.

I hate seeing loose dogs on a caravan site, I don't know that dog and that dog doesn't know mine, I have had aggressive dogs in the past who would have attacked any loose dog that comes near to me. If your dog is on the lead there is no question about it being under control, if it is loose it is classed as not being under control.

I don't think it is worth the risk, this is some of my dogs tied up with windbreaks round, I even have a gate

Bonnie, my little girl like your's is the black dog, Tilly the golden and Gracie the other, Gracie is now at the Rainbow Bridge.

.

[lily_pad]

Hi Mattie,

I am going to have to keep her on the lead regardless it seems I understand your point tho as I have saw dogs running around even the park away from their owners and it does worry me they maky not be nice.

Thankfully India is ok on the lead I guess its the idea of restricting her in some way but it is something I will have to get my head around and understand it is for the best.

Bonnie is so big compared to my lil monster lol. She is a bit smaller than average and smaller compared to her siblings as she was the runt of the litter and needed bottle feeding etc for 4 weeks. But the vet is over the moon with her development and has no worries about her as she is in really good health

Thank you for your advice, it has helped me calm down a little that India aint the only dog who has acted this way

[Mattie]

I had problems with tying my dogs up at first as well, I had different dogs then who were really well behaved, it was a case of accept it or sell the caravan. My dogs are happy being tied up, even my 2 new ones didn't bother when I tied them up outside my van. I did have 2 dogs that couldn't wear collars, these were well behaved, with the windbreaks round they were fine, took both of them all their time to get out of the van to toilet so they weren't going anywhere, they prefered the comfort of the caravan.

[ladybug1802]

My post was probably a bit wrong so apologies for that - as your dog is generally ok with strangers....Mattie is explaining things far better!!

[lily_pad]

Hi Mattie.

We are going away at the end of the month again camping so I will see how she is once she is on the lead whilst sat with us etc.. I have also been and got another windbreaker today so we have plenty to make a safe area for her

Ladybug,

Dont worry thank you so much for trying to help it has helped me alot anyway to feel like I am not alone x

[Mattie]

She will adapt to it a lot quicker than you will

Dogs can slip out of collars, she may be better with a well fitted harness on instead.

I am going away or the weekend as well, weather doesn't look too good but that doesn't worry us, we are comfy inside a caravan with a fire to keep us warm if it is cold.

[lily_pad]

I woold like to say thank you so much for your advice abd help over my little problem with India.

I have started to notice her reactions whilst in the park in the past week whilst playing and altho she has not attempted to lunge and bark in the direction of people her hairs along her neck and back have been going up when something startles her, ie children running past and making alot of noise.

I can only assume it is deffinately a fear thing with her and as soon as I noticed it I bought her back to me and gave her some attention and diverted her focus back to her rope toys we were playing with and she settled straight away, her hairs went down and she was content to carry on playing.

Mattie I am going to be keeping her on her lead during this weekends camping trip and I will be looking out to see if the hairs are going up when people are walking past the tent etc so I can see if it happens again.

I am so much more relaxed with her now and alot less upset in myself with the situation. I have accepted that I may never be able to have her off her lead whilst camping and we are sat at the site and I am happy with that as I know she is safe and she cant scare people and come across as an agressive dog.

Once again thank you and I will update you after the trip this weekend

[emmabeth]

Do keep us updated.

One thing, if you notice shes seen something and is wondering or in the beginning stages of reacting, if you can give her a BIG reward then, as well as then 'changing the subject' (ie distracting her with toys), that would be really good too. Often things like cheese spread (Primula, we LOVE primula, especially the smoked ham or the prawn one!) are a great reward in a stressful situation as the dog only has to lick it off your finger or the tube.

Now that you know the early signs of her being upset by something you will make much faster progress - just remember to go at her pace.

It is hard when you have all these ideas of what you want (or should be able ) to do with your dog and then it doesnt work out that way. Its also hard when other people want to do thinsg like touch your dog, or expect that your dog should tolerate them running about screaming right under their noses, or their own dogs barrelling up rudely to meet or have a go.

Stick with it and I think you will be fine

[Helen2009]

Emma

Thats a good tip, thanks for that. I always wonder about timing. When Evie is say 'starting' to aggress, you know she gives the look, the stare, the 'thinking' thoughts of shall I bark and spin? Is it okay to give a reward then? So far I have been trying to get her attention before she even sees the other dog, but I suppose its just distracting isn't it. Will have to invest in some primula, though I don't trust her to lick it off my finger, she'll just try to eat my whole hand

[emmabeth]

Yep! As soon as the dog is aware of 'whatever' - reward/distract/change the subject - that 'thinking' time is something a LOT of people don't notice and of course with some dogs that thinkign time is over in a second or two anyway. So if your dog is thinking 'ooh theres something... shall i...' then your answer is 'hey, cheese spread!' and all reason to react is gone!

Primula is a great reward - I let them lick it from the tube as its plastic and theres no sharp bits for the dog to hurt themselves on - do label the tube though when you put it back in the fridge, for some reason some people DONT like to eat cheese spread from a tube a dog has licked.. pft!