Humane or not?

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Poloplatinum
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Humane or not?

Post by Poloplatinum »

Hello everybody, my name is Chris and I haven't posted in this forum in a while... Anyway, I have a problem on my hands. I used to be a military working dog handler and our methods of training leave much to be desired to positive only trainers. I have since abandoned those methods execpt for the most extreme of circumstances. With that being said, since I left the military I have started a small defense contracting business with a focus on K-9 services. (I.E Narcotic & Explosive interdiction, patrol/guard dogs, shutzhund style training consultations). I have recently been approached by a few people who have feral hog problems. They have heard that having dogs can help with this. I can not make up my mind if this is humane or not... These feral hogs are HUUUUUUGE!!! And extremely dangerous to the dogs. Typically it is the bully breeds that you send in for the bite or kill... I have nothing against hunting dogs or anything like that but this seems to be a bit extreme. The dogs have to wear KEVLAR vest for christs sake. Anyway, is this humane or not? Or am I just way over my head. I do not want to do anything to endanger my pups! And if I do decide to do this does anybody have a background in this type of hunting? Or know of any good literature to read on it. Where do I start? Thx everybody and I look forward to your responses.
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ladybug1802
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by ladybug1802 »

Personally I think this is not humane.....obviously not for the hogs, but certainly not for the dogs. I cant understand anyone willingly sending their dog out there when there is a very high possibility it will get seriously injured or even killed. I have to say I am against hunting anyway - in the sense of people going out for a 'fun day out' and killing other animals, so maybe I am nt the best person to answer this! But regardless of my views on hunting, I certainly wouldnt want my dog going out in any situation where he had to wear a kevlar vest thats for sure!
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Mattie
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by Mattie »

I thought i had replied to this, sorry.

Personally I wouldn't put any of my dogs into the danger that they will be in with hogs, I know dogs work for us in many dangerous situations but that is to protect us, there are other ways to deal with hogs.

You are having very strong doubts yourself, follow your instincts, they are normally right.
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Poloplatinum
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by Poloplatinum »

Hi mattie! Long time no talk... Yeah I am having doubts. It just doesn't seem right to send a dog out into a situation where they could harm themselves. I know that people do this and have a pretty high success rate. But knowingly sending youre dog on such a dangerous job seems borderline cruel to me... Anyway, what are some other ways to deal with hogs?
ALWAYS trust your dog.
ladybug1802
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by ladybug1802 »

We dont have many hogs in the UK so no idea! What problems do they cause? If the garden/yard is fenced in do the hogs not just stay out? Interesting to know what damage they cause and what the problems are as the main pests we have here are squirrels - substantially smaller! But even then I think they are cute (I know I am in the miniority tho!)!
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Mattie
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by Mattie »

Move to the UK, we don't have them. :lol:

I would get someone to shoot them, for most animals I think that dogs are better, they kill cleaner and quicker, the animal doesn't suffer like it does if they are not killed outright when shot, but for hogs I would be more inclined to use a gun.

Unlike Ladybug I am not against hunting with dogs, in the UK foxes are now becoming a big problem because they have moved into the towns and cities as there isn't enough food in the country. Many are now covered in mange and really suffering. The hunts used to keep their numbers under control and only the fittest survived, the old and sick were killed quick and humanly.
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Nettle
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by Nettle »

No, don't do it. Dogs get very badly hurt in the countries where boar hunting with dogs is the norm. I hunt with my dogs but I'd never hunt boar with them.

Better to drive the boar out of cover using beaters and shoot them - but they are VERY dangerous and initially experienced people should guide the way.

I'd keep well out of it if I were you - boar are some of the most dangerous game you can get. And yes we do have them in UK but relatively few, although numbers are growing.
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jakesmom
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by jakesmom »

I'm with Ladybug, it sounds pretty inhumane all round to me.
jacksdad
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by jacksdad »

Me, I wouldn't. because what passes for "boar" in the USA is often your typical domestic type pig mixed with either Russian or European boars that got imported in the late 19th early 20th century. The two types mixed and now you you get one tough, and potentially very large and dangerous animal.

I am with Nettle, just shoot the pigs. these are out of control none native species and like it or not letting hunters go "hog wild" on them so to speak is the best thing that could happen. the populations are out of control with only humans as their only effective predator. There are not enough cougar or bear left in the lower 48 to keep these animals in check.

I know some here might be opposed to hunting, but this is one case it's hard to argue any other solution. again as a non native species without a out of control population they are rapidly becoming a threat to native species and habitat.
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nightsrainfall
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by nightsrainfall »

Personally I'd avoid killing a hog with a dog like the plague for other reasons then the debate on if it's an acceptable solution to the hog problem. Using well-trained dogs to flush out hogs (through barking and running, not getting close enough to bite or be boar-ed), I could understand. I've seen that for birds, dear, coyotes, bulls, etc. The run, bark, run, bark, and scare usually keeps the dog at a safe distance from its animals (of course it's the responsibility of the owner to be able to call the dog back). I wouldn't use a dog to kill an animal such as a boar, bull, coyote (though we had dogs in my last state (US) who were trained to do that), etc just because those animals pose more of a danger to the dog than the normal rabbit or fowl... I wouldn't want to put any risk on my dogs.

Also if you are feeling uneasy about it - then I really wouldn't. (Personally it's not something I'd ever attempt, I have no skills on that at all.)

Anyway - this is just my own two cents.
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emmabeth
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by emmabeth »

Echo the others, stay awayyyy from this.

If they seriously want to hunt pigs - and some people do - their dogs are at serious risk, as are they, and they really need to know what they are doing.

Hunting pigs for sport/fun is really NOT going to aid in keeping numbers down (not without going through a heck of a lot of dogs!). Dogs will not 'keep pigs away', so if they think dogs would be a deterrant or pick off a few and keep numbers down they are sadly mistaken and again will go through a lot of dogs.

If they seriously want/need to reduce numbers of wild pigs, then there are more efficient ways that do not put other animals at risk (puts humans at risk though!).
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chay
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by chay »

feral pigs are a huge problem in some areas of country western australia, and i would neverneverNEVER let any dogs anywhere near them :shock:

to put it into perspective, this pig was shot a couple of years ago in a remote town in the northwest (yes it was big news...not much happens down here :lol: )

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/g ... 5719292110

but seriously - would you a) let something like that near your dogs, or b) let huge tough dogs wearing kevlar tear it apart enough that it died? to me it is hugely unfair for both sets of animals (its not the pigs fault they are pests, and the dogs are not exactly retrievers or other hunting dogs doing what is natural and enjoyable to them as part of hunting - they have to wear kevlar for goodness sake!)

their best bet is to employ a professional game shooter and cull the population cleanly and humanely (as possible)
ladybug1802
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by ladybug1802 »

Wow I had no idea they were that big! Its about twice the size of that man!

But you make the point I was trying to make chay.....ok so some animals are considered 'pests' but it isnt their fault. They are doing what is natural and I dont feel it fair to hunt them in the traditional sense - such as horseback hunts....that is just a 'fun' day out for the riders which often involves foxes getting torn apart and dying a painful death. It is more humane, in my opinion to shoot them, and not make a 'day out; out of it. Plus the sick or old die being scared stiff because they simply cannot get away. Same should apply to all creatures that people consider 'pests' if they need to be controlled. But I will get off my soapbox as I do feel strongly about this kind of thing and dont want to start a hunting debate per say!!

But looking at the size of these hogs, if they need culling i think shooting (by a professional who does the job quickly, instead of a lay person 'taking a shot' and just maiming and causing pain to the animal) is the best way.
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Nettle
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by Nettle »

Ladybug, if you'd like to separate your thoughts on hunting from the rest of this post and (if Boardhost agrees) have it in a topic on Chat, I can show you where you are mistaken :wink: as I am someone who has and does actually hunt with her dogs, and have hunted on horseback also. But here it would hijack the thread.

The problem with using dogs to flush boar (pig or hog) to waiting Guns is that from time to time a dog or dogs will get bold and try to tackle it. Now it is impossible for a dog to kill a boar, and even a pack of them would mostly sustain awful injuries if it tried. In some countries, boar dogs will hold a boar at bay, but even then some will tackle it and hold it physically until the hunter(s) arrive(s). Whatever method is used, and boar have been hunted since time began, they are extremely dangerous and well-armed, and IMO it is better to keep dogs/horses well away from the action.
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ladybug1802
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Re: Humane or not?

Post by ladybug1802 »

Yes sorry - didnt mean to hijack the thread...I get carried away sometimes!! :wink:
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