Meeting other dogs on the street.

[minkee]

Hello again!

Scout (17 month old patterdale x lakeland terrier) has some behaviour that I expected her to just grow out of - but if anything it seems to be getting worse, so I think it's time I started to actively try and change it. My problem being I have no idea how - Or what to realistically expect from her.

The problem behaviour is that she wants to meet just about every single dog she sees when we're on a walk. I encouraged this when she was very young, and 'meet everyone, see everything' socialising was our motto, always after asking the other owner, of course. Our loose lead walking is a work in progress, but it's fairly good until this sticking point. If she does dart over towards them I'm not entirely sure what I should be doing. Currently I don't let her pull forwards by stopping in my tracks, but that still means she's on the end of the lead infront of me and I'm stood still at the other end, and unable to bring her attention back to me. Changing direction can't always work either because she'll also dart towards dogs that are coming up behind us. I don't want to forcibly drag her out the way either, it doesn't seem quite right. At the moment we usually wait where we are for the dog to pass. Depending on their owner and the dog they'll either walk on past without a glance, or come say hello to her. She has gotten the appealing look down pretty well, so she's rarely refused. Also, I don't mind her meeting other dogs! She obviously really wants to, and if the other dog is just as keen then I have no problem with a quick sniff, hi, bye. I just want her to be able to do it a bit more... gracefully. That doesn't sound like her at all though Sometimes I'll be able to distract her so we walk on nicely, but I'd say it's fairly rarely.

When she does meet the other dogs, her body language is almost always exactly the same. I want to say 'pro-social behaviour' but I'm not 100% sure where I got that from - Jean Donaldson? I forget. Anyway, it's all ears plastered back, tail wagging so hard that her whole bum goes with it. She does sit when she gets to the end of her lead - which is how I've tried to teach her to greet people (although she still breaks her sit when they get to her too), but it's the waggiliest, most excited sit you've ever seen. What's happening more and more often, now, is that she'll dive straight onto her back as soon as the dog gets to her. Previously she'd only do that maybe 1 in 10 times, if the dog was particularly large and intimidating, and the rest of the time probably sniff and play bow. Now the reverse is true. She is a bold, outgoing and friendly little dog. I'm not sure what to make of it. As an addendum, she also exhibits the same behaviour for _some_ passing people, except she'd rather lick their hands than roll on her back. Usually those people say 'You can smell my doggy can't you!' and make a big fuss of her, so she picks her targets well.

So, my questions are these:-

What behaviour is realistic to expect from her in this situation? And how can we train to achieve that behaviour?

[Nettle]

It sounds to me that you have a well-socialised terrier with great body-language and communication skills.

Maybe I'm being dense here, but what is the problem? Other people would kill for such a well-adjusted dog.

[Sarah83]

It sounds to me that you have a well-socialised terrier with great body-language and communication skills.

Maybe I'm being dense here, but what is the problem? Other people would kill for such a well-adjusted dog.

I think the problem is that the dog wants to say hello so much that all her focus is on the other dog and the OP is struggling to get her attention and wants to know whether there's anything they can do to change that.

[minkee]

Yeah - the problem is she wants to do it with EVERY dog she sees. If she sees one coming up the street behind us she'll plonk her bum down and wiggle until it gets to us, refusing to move. If there's a dog on the other side of the street she wants to dash over the road to see it. I don't want to have to drag her around after me, and I don't want to be stopping every few minutes. To me, it seems kind of like the reactive dogs I read about here, except instead of wanting to run over and rip a throat out, she wants to run over and kiss them to death.

It's not the worst problem to have, I really know that - but when we go to a place that's full of dogs she darts about all over the place falling on the floor left right and centre. For example when we went to Whitby, aka Dog Central, if I wanted to keep up my loose lead no-walking-anywhere-if-you're-pulling rule, I would never have gotten 2 steps. So many dogs all over and she wants them ALL. I just want her to be a bit more chilled about it I suppose! You're right in that it's not so obviously a problem - but that also makes it harder for me to work out what the solution would be! I don't even really know what I DO want from her. "Be nice and happy like you are pup, but just chill out a little!"

[Nettle]

thank you for the explanation. Let's move with the art of the possible.

You have a puppy, a terrier, and you want chill-out? Not yet.

It's reasonable for her to want to greet other dogs (just as it is reasonable for a fearful dog not to want to) and it's reasonable for you not to have every walk turn into a social club.

So - a bit of each.

YOU can choose the dogs she meets just the same way the fear-reactive people can. You look out for other dogs and take steps to avoid them before your pup sees them. Let her meet-and-greet some dogs some of the time, and if you don't want that for any reason, do the little country dance that takes you away from other dogs as soon as you spot them. And this means choosing your walks and your timing to avoid dog-heavy times of day.

Your terrier is nearly grown-up, and when she is mature, she will be more selective about which dogs she likes, and the problem should go away. When I work with dogs that are going through this phase, I reward when we have passed the other dog so that the pattern builds of 'other dog passes by - I get reward'. Soon they are keener on the other dog passing by than stopping to greet it.

[dodge-white boxer]

LOL,my boy (now two yrs old) is GLUED to the pavement as soon as he see's a dog,he s done it ever since he was a pup and I ve tried to move him to go the other way,body blocking (Huh,he thought,dont think so mother!! ) I used to carry jars of baby food around with me,cheese spread,you name the treat . . .I tried it,no respond,lol. He used to get a rather cold respond from some dogs,but as he grew older and learned more social skills up at our dog park,it does not really bother me anymore,he used to jump right on top of any dog going into playmode like crazy,he does not do that anymore,he waits for the other dog to approach,gets up once the other dog had a little sniff and sniffs back and he even does it off leash at the park,its just his way which he is comfy with
Anyway,she may just be a very submissive girlie and thats how she will greet other doggies,no harm if you have to wait a little while for the other dog to pass if it makes her feel happy/safe. Once she s older you may just see her change by choice,Dodge did,he stopped jumping right on top and he learned that that gave him a far better resond from the other dogs.We very very rarely get a growl from another dog now
Another thing is,we now meet up with a couple of boxer's everyday at the park and the playtime defo helps with not being over the top all the time

[minkee]

Thanks Nettle

That all makes sense, and leaves me with a nice game plan! It probably sounds silly to everyone else, especially those with bigger problems to deal with, but it's just an annoying little thing that gets exasperating after a while.

I think part of the worry, too, was that I expected it to get less and less as she grows up, but lately she seems to be more insistent than ever. I was concerned that with her early neutering it might be a puppy thing that wouldn't disappear naturally, and I'd have to teach her how to behave a bit more sensibly about it all. Perhaps I was leaping to that a bit early though. And it's also in the back of my mind that when she hits two it might be time to embark on another puppy, or perhaps even a baby, and I want Scout to be as bombproof as possible

[emmabeth]

All I would add to this, is practice self control/impulse control games all over the place too, indoors, outdoors, on quiet walks etc etc, anything you can devise that reinforces and helps her generalise the idea that 'Mom is in charge, if I exercise self control I might very well get what I want anyway', start out with easy stuff (like the 'its yer choice' game) and work your way up to harder things like greeting other dogs.

I think where people go wrong here is that this exuberance turns into frustration and people get annoyed at the frustrated exuberant doggy, who then starts to yell at other dogs going by..... and its a short hop there to turning into an aggrssion issue an from t here, its a very short step to having another dog react badly to being yelled at, aggress back and being a terrier she thinks 'stuff you, thats not gonna happen twice' and learns to be aggressive in the first instance.

Sooooo self control and the country dance and clever management are the order of the day

[minkee]

Thanks emmabeth.

We already do a few self control things, at least I think they'd count as 'self control' - they're just stuff we do! Such as:

- I get her to wait from 5secs - 2mins after I've thrown her ball before she can go get it.
- She has to wait at her bed rather than infront of the door if we want to go out.
- The rule here is "If it's on the floor, it's puppy's, if it's anywhere else, it's NOT" unless there's a 'leave it' command.

Those do count, right?! Does anyone else have suggestions for good impulse control games?

One thing I will say for Scout, is that she very rarely barks. If she starts shouting at something I know she's REALLY wound up, and that something has to change!

[emmabeth]

Yes yes yes, those are all good.

If shes good enough at the self control 'game', then with things like the ball you can mix it up - throw another toy that shes less keen on and shes gotta fetch that before you throw the ball as a reward. Throw one ball, have her wait, do some heel work (just a few paces on the lead to start) then release her to get the ball. Throw the ball... then throw another ball and send her out for one then the other.

You probably cant do all that to start out with but its an idea of what you can work up to. Vary the locations you practice some of this stuff in as well so that she doesnt think self control ONLY applies at home!

[minkee]

Cool - nice ideas, thanks! We live on the fourth floor at the moment, with no garden, so practically ALL our play is out and about Home is mostly for eating and chilling.

Which in itself worries me that when we move to somewhere where there's more out the window and the front door than just seagulls, she's going to go MAD. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it :3