Dog Attack Advice Needed

[Esprit64]

Folks: I'd appreciate good advice on how to handle this dog attack situation in the best interests of the attacking dog (rottweiler), a dog which seemingly has not received adequate training. I'll tell you why--I'm fearful that the owner's stupidity in this matter may get the dog euthanized. Despite my dog being injured, I don't believe we should necessarily blame the aggressor dog until his history of conduct and training has been assessed. In other words, I don't want local police or the courts to easily solve its problem by eliminating the dog--before the dog has a chance to be assessed or has access to professional training to deal with its dog aggression issues.

If I understand my state's statutes correctly, since the dog put a single puncture wound in my dog, my complaint will be taken to municipal court as a public matter and for a decision on the dog's safety. The attack happened in my local park--this 100 lb. rottweiler was dog aggressive and inflicted its bite on my 60 lb. lab mix's back. After the attack, another visitor informed me that the dog has attacked other dogs, but no previous complaints were filed with the police. My dog met the rottweiler legally off-leash in the park and within seconds of meeting, the rottweiler tore into my dog. It was a really scary assault.

Why am I concerned for the attacking dog? I had opportunity to communicate with the wife/owner at the attack scene and the husband/owner on the phone, and in my opinion, both of them are clueless as to the danger their dog represents. I suspect they got the dog for "status." The husband admitted that he's aware that his dog is dog aggressive, yet, here was his petite wife, walking this aggressive dog off-leash in a municipal park known for many off-leash dogs walking. The wife could obviously not control this dog intent on rage. The husband also admitted to not giving his dog any professional training.

I'm suspecting that this dog's problems are absolutely not her fault. But because her owners have been irresponsible, it seems likely that she's going to pay the price. What can I do to help this dog? What suggestions should I make to the court?

[Nettle]

The law in your country is different from mine, but if the case gets to court, I would recommend the dog is muzzled and leashed at all times when outside, and only walked by someone strong enough to hold it.

I'd like to say there should be a course of proper behaviour training, but if the wrong style of training is used, then the problem will get worse not better.

It is arguable that a dog that has attacked and injured other dogs should be euthanased. I'd be pretty mad if my dog was injured and it turned out that the attacking dog had 'previous form'. It takes a lot of skill and commitment to manage such animals, and the size of this one is a big negative factor.

[Mattie]

I have been in this position myself in the past, thankfully Joe wasn't damaged but it did do a lot of mental damage to him, he started to have panic attacks which led to seizures later in the day.

These 2 dogs turned a lot of dogs in my area fear aggressive, a dog down the road had to spend several nights in the vets because of the damage they did to her. She wasn't the only dog that ended up in the vets either, several did.

The owners were in denial, they kept blaming the other dog. In Joe's case he was sitting in front of me with his back to these dogs when they attacked. They tried to blame Joe but there was a witness, thankfully Tommy and Dixie took a dog each, Tommy sorted our her dog then took the other dog off Dixie and sorted out that one as well. They had previously tried to attack Tommy but she quickly put them in their place. Tommy never started a fight, she always finished them. These dogs kept clear of Tommy afterwards.

Nobody reported these dogs until I did, they took the cost of the vet bills themselves because these owners refused to accept it was their dog that attacked. They were told to keep their dogs on a lead at all times but they didn't. The next time I saw them out they had no leads on so I told the owner they can do it the easy way or the hard way. The easy way was to keep leads on their dogs, the hard way was for me to report them again. Afterwards they always got hold of their dogs collars when they saw me because they never carried leads.

This couple split up, he took the dogs and she moved in with someone else, got 2 small dogs and they because the same way.

Wicket, often dogs like this are so traumatised that they are better off being pts because they can't cope, unless their owner will work with this dog to improve him, he may be the same, so traumatised that he would be better pts. Each time he does this he will get more and more traumatised, unlike the dogs who's owner come here asking for help this dog is left to deal with it himself and he can't. Nobody likes to see a healthy dog pts, but dogs that are really traumatised are not healthy dogs.

[Sarah83]

The owners need to take responsibility for the dog and its actions, unless they're willing to do that there's absolutely nothing you can do. My Rupert is aggressive towards other dogs through fear thanks to being attacked multiple times. Unless we're in a fully enclosed area where I can see the entrance he's leashed. Off leash he's muzzled just in case although we walk at times we're very unlikely to meet anyone. I don't think he would attack if he had the option to escape but it's not a risk I'm prepared to take. If he's got to be in close quarters with other dogs he's muzzled. That's the management side of the issue. A muzzle does not stop the dog attacking and frightening or even injuring another dog, it just means they can't bite.

Then there's the training. Desensitizing him to other dogs has not gone well as every time we're making progress we run into someone from the anti leash brigade (or the "he just wants to play! brigade) whose dog comes charging up and we're back to square one. Rupe's reaction distance is now so big that a dog the other side of a football field is too close, across the street is a guaranteed reaction, one running up is a melt down. And most of the dogs he's been attacked by are repeat offenders. A lot of them are what I think of as bullies, all posturing, noise and slobber with no physical damage done but that's not the point, even that causes my dog great distress.

I'm sorry this happened to you and your dog, I hope your dog makes a quick recovery and has no lasting effects.

[emmabeth]

All you can really do is speak to these people and see if they are willing to take sensible management measures and retrain their dog.

If they are and show signs of doing that then I might hang fire reporting them - if they are not , then really all you can do is report the incident.

If the owners of the dogs previously attacked had reported this dog/his owners then perhaps he wouldnt have been able to attack your dog - if you dont do something, hes still around to attack other dogs and next time the other dog may not get off so lightly.

It is a shame and a horrid fact of life that the likely outcome is, this dog pays with his life, the price for owners who refuse to take responsiblity for their dogs behaviour/actions.

[Esprit64]

I know that the owners of this dog are wealthy. And, after the incident, I happened to speak with another park visitor, and she said that she and her fellow park patrons knew this woman well, and her rottweiler has been known to attack other dogs. Apparently, those attacks had not been reported to the police. The wife/owner of the dog at scene--her behavior--was simply outrageous. After witnessing two vicious attacks on my dog, I screamed at her, "Lady, your dog is dangerous, it should be on a leash." Her reply was, "but she was only playing." The very next comment out of her mouth was, "did you see where my other dog went?" She was referring to her pug, her second dog at scene, who fled during the attack. I had been in the middle of this dog fight trying to break it up (I know, stupid, but my dog was being savagely mauled, I couldn't just stand there)--yet, afterward, this wife made no inquiry about me or my dog's wellbeing--and absolutely offered no apology. Later, I spoke to the husband/owner by phone. In one breath, he acknowledged that he knew his dog to be dog aggressive. And in the next breath, he told me how easily he walks his dog off-leash elsewhere--he couldn't understand it? Again, these owners, knowing their dog was dog aggressive, nonetheless, elected for the petite wife to walk this 100 lb. aggressive animal off-leash, in a park known for off-leash dog walkers. This couple's indifference and absolutely bad judgment about all of this is what bothers me the most.

Next to my and my dog's wellbeing, I worry for this rottweiler, who may exist in this house only for the status it represents--to hell with its real needs--I'm not sure this couple knows what that means. My vet advises me that my dog has a 104.5 temp with a now abscessed wound that I must attend/medicate 3x daily. My dog suffers, my time is needlessly wasted--because these people simply couldn't be bothered concerning themselves with proper dog ownership.

My biggest worry after my dog, is that this couple will believe that their dog is now too much work and will be discarded. It's a hell of a price for a dog to pay when all it really lives for is its owner's love and attention. Let's hope this situation turns out well.

[nightsrainfall]

You may be able to talk to the local shelters and see what they do about dogs in these cases if they get taken away. For the local shelter in this town, a dog attacking another dog doesn't get put down but taken away from its owner. (We've even had a dog kill and eat another dog). However the larger city a few hours from here will put down a dog if it kills another dog and is forcefully removed from its owners. That said, I agree with Mattie. Dogs can get worse and more tramatitized, both in attacking another dog and in being attacked. To me, not only is it unhealthy for the dogs, it can be really dangerous in general.

The worse dog bite to a person I have ever seen (not malling or attacking but single bite) was accidental. The dog was going (full fledged attack) for another dog and accidentally caught the human's leg. The person had to go to the hospital because of the massive amount of bleeding, although it was the just their leg. They had to be on crutches for two weeks and it took a two months for it to heal completely because it ended up infected.

Even though the attacks up to now may not have been that bad, they may get worse. Or even worse than that a person or child could end up in it or one of the dogs attacked may die as a result of it. If I thought the owners would change or it was more of a "didn't realize", I'd confront them, but if I knew it was just going to keep happening and keep happening and the owners weren't going to do anything - I'd make a complaint to the city or animal control. There really aren't too many options in these cases.

[Esprit64]

Folks: You will not believe what has happened in this dog attack incident. It appears that my local jocal police, with which I filed my complaint, never took any steps to view the dog afterward. Wouldn't you assume that when a dog bite is reported, it might be prudent for authorities to visit the dog and determine its condition, state of mind, maybe rabies? Apparently not. It seems in Maine USA, there are only two choices in these cases, doing nothing or filing criminal charges against the owner--a bit extreme, when as we all know, there are a myriad of dog aggression situations/circumstances in between--some more serious than others--involving simple ignorance or outright irresponsibility--that should be otherwise seriously dealt with, but certainly not with the threat of arrest and jail.

The owner of the other dog was agreeable to pay my vet bill. We amicably settled the civil matter between us. When I sent him an eMail requesting he reimburse me, I included in the eMail that if he paid me, I would consider the matter closed. I copied the police on this eMail. I assumed that as a dog bite case, that authorities were moving forward independently, regardless of my involvement, to determine what should be done in this dog bite matter.

The next thing I know, I'm getting a call from my local police chief. He was not intent on having any discussion with me, as he already had his agenda planned, including in his third sentence, suggesting I was engaging in extortion. WHAT? It seems that when I sent my eMail settling the civil matter, I was engaging in deception because I was also seeking the dog owner's criminal prosecution. I never knowingly sought the other owner's criminal prosecution. My intent, since he exercised poor judgment in allowing his known dog aggressive dog to roam free, was for authorities to assess his dog and make things clear to him relative to controlling the animal properly in the interests of public safety. Apparently, there is no authority that investigates dog bite matters--in other words, having police powers to assess/ticket/arrest at the scene. We have an animal control officer who cannot direct anyone what to do with their dogs. In Maine, we seem to just trust that the owners of biting dogs do the right thing. As for me, my actions in wanting authorities to deal with the dog is interpreted as meaning that I want criminal charges filed with the district attorney, who will likely get PO'd with me that the importance of his office and his need to deal with the most serious cases, is valuable time now being interrupted by what is presumed as a petty dog bite matter--misuse of his time.

This conversation with this police chief came totally out of left field and promptly put me in la-la land. This situation became so off-the-wall, it's clear to me that I should never have gotten these local jocal police involved at all. And police wonder, based on experiences like mine, why people don't want to get involved? Lesson learned. Do not be concerned about public safety. Just walk away. Doing the right thing simply doesn't pay.

[jacksdad]

There is always small claims court to get a legal ruling that the other party reimburse your vet bills. each state is a little different, but typically small claims court deals only with civil cases below $15000.00 or so other level around that. Also typically no lawyers are allowed, just normal people making their case in front of a judge or referee.

The key to winning is being articulate, reasonable, prepared. credible documents and witnesses are very helpful.

from my small experience with the process in California, the key was credible documents and reasonableness. If you have $1000.00 in vet bills and another $200 in court preparation costs, ask for 1200.00 back form the other party and nothing more.

In my opinion that is your middle ground between do nothing and criminal charges. I would maybe take an afternoon or morning and go watch the process and see how it works, and then decide.

[nightsrainfall]

You don't have an animal control? It'd probably be through the local government run animal shelter (if you have one nearby). I think they would be the ones you contact if you do. Here that's what people do, the police generally will filter calls that way too (if you get the right person that is). I'm really surprised there's no citation issued - here I believe it's a fine for your first 3 times (if the attack is against another dog), and then the animal is removed from the home.

[bmbutler]

The one thing that came to my mind after reading these postings is what is it going to take for someone to speak up about the dog. A dog getting attacked until it dead or has to be put down because it is so badly injured?!?!?

Please do not get me wrong. I do and have always loved animals especially dogs. I just know that if my dog was the one that was critically injured or killed I would be ready to go after any person who knew about the aggressive dog and did nothing about it!

[Esprit64]

This is what upset me. I've been at this park for five years. Sure, dogs get into disagreements. Even some snarl now and then. But, the alterctions are minor. The reason that I reacted to this fight was this dog was dog aggressive within nanoseconds of greeting my dog. It was over 100 lbs. It was clearly in bloodletting rage. It was determined and focused to get my dog, not once, but twice. If a small child was in the way, I wondered what would have happened.

However, you see how this works? Dogs are PROPERTY. Big deal if they are bitten--or, so I imagine my local police chief believes. With dog on dog bites, police want to do nothing--or--ONLY if it becomes a major matter--what is major?--who knows--the extent of the dog's injury--a person getting bitten--who knows?--then and only then is further action taken against the biting dog's owner, criminal charges may be filed.

There is nothing in between. I think this is wrong. Because if this aggressive dog has an ignorant or uncaring owner, what we now know is a dangerous dog may easily cause harm again.

Thirty years ago, I witnessed a similar dog fight, resulting in the dog grabbing a toddler by the arm/shoulder and shaking her. The dog was aggressive due to loud noises. The toddler was walking past the dog's property on the public sidewalk playing with her noisy toy. Afterward, I learned that complaints were made to the local police about the dog, concerns for its behaviors, police claimed that they could do nothing.

In my opinion, our laws on these issues are insufficient. There must be steps in-between from doing nothing to the filing of criminal charges. Therefore, when authorities find either owners ignorant, in denial, or simply not caring of their responsibility to properly control their known aggressive dog, something can be done to stop them. At minimum, they should be mandated to keep their known aggressive dog on leash in public, with muzzle, or secured in home or behind fencing. Not everyone can afford dog training. However, not everyone wants to spend the time to train an aggressive dog either. Perhaps part of the problem here is that people not inclined to train their dogs should consider not getting big ones, just in case, they develop aggression issues that they have absolutely no desire to train.