Hey guys, how often would you recommend training your dogs/puppies?
At the moment Riley is having a few short sessions a day (3 to 4 sessions @ 10-15mins each) is that too much? Too little?
The only reason i ask is, i dont want to 1) over do the treats and 2) over do the training and he becomes bored of it! lol that would be a disaster wouldnt it?!
Thanks - Eddy
How often...?
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easilyconfused
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Re: How often...?
Every interaction I have with my dogs is training imo. If I am playing with them (the best form of training) I will ask for a command during the game before I continue. If they want up on the sofa a nice sit before they jump up is asked for etc. The goal to having a well trained dog is by finding as many ways of asking for commands and as many ways of rewarding good behaviour as possible.
Treats are very usefull for teaching and proofing commands but once a dog knows how to sit you need to find many ways of incorporating it as possible. Like sit at the kerb before we walk on, sit for the ball to get tossed. Then your short treat sessions can be used for teaching new things So short 5 min sessions are fine.
Treats are very usefull for teaching and proofing commands but once a dog knows how to sit you need to find many ways of incorporating it as possible. Like sit at the kerb before we walk on, sit for the ball to get tossed. Then your short treat sessions can be used for teaching new things So short 5 min sessions are fine.
Re: How often...?
Great! Thanks for the reply, as you said, i do make everything a training session while im thinking about it, when he wants a toy, he sits and waits, before meals he sits and waits, not out walking yet but will sit and wait before we leave/enter the house etc.
Was just wandering as i dont want to over feed him and give him an upset tum! But so far so good!
Thanks - Eddy
Was just wandering as i dont want to over feed him and give him an upset tum! But so far so good!
Thanks - Eddy
Re: How often...?
I would make the sessions 5 to 10 minutes, he is still a baby, easilyconfused is right, every time we interact with our dogs is part of the training. Once you have taught your pup something the more you practice it in different places the better, you may have to start at the beginning at each place at first because dogs don't generalise, you teach sit in the kitchen, they don't realise that on the command they need to sit in the living room or anywhere else.
Do a search for mind games, these also will help your puppy, what you teach him to do doesn't matter as much as you interacting with him because you are teaching him, the more you do the stronger the bond will be.
You don't need to use treats all the time, it is better to mix the rewards, a game, give him a toy, praise etc, the more mixed the rewards are the better. Dogs that have a full tummy are not as inclined to work for treats until their stomach is emptying.
At his age you may be able to use the kibble from his meals so as treats, some dogs will work for their food others won't.
If you go to viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1981 it will give you an idea of what to expect from your puppy as he is growing up, it may help you understand him more.
Do a search for mind games, these also will help your puppy, what you teach him to do doesn't matter as much as you interacting with him because you are teaching him, the more you do the stronger the bond will be.
You don't need to use treats all the time, it is better to mix the rewards, a game, give him a toy, praise etc, the more mixed the rewards are the better. Dogs that have a full tummy are not as inclined to work for treats until their stomach is emptying.
At his age you may be able to use the kibble from his meals so as treats, some dogs will work for their food others won't.
If you go to viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1981 it will give you an idea of what to expect from your puppy as he is growing up, it may help you understand him more.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
Re: How often...?
I recently went to an Ian Dunbar seminar (check out dogstardaily.com)..
Whilst you do want to phase out food rewards as soon as you can dont be too hasty to mistake this for phasing out classical conditioning, ie 'potentially scary things = food reward'. I t hink thats a common error we all make.
This doesnt mean food rewards all have to be super high value, Ian also recommends that puppies (and even adult dogs) eat very little food from a bowl and get most of their daily intake as rewards for training and socialisation.
I would use normal kibble for stuff he can do well and easily (and start to reward the second or third correct response rather than the first one every time), stick to rewarding first time responses for stuff he isnt so good at, and save high value treats like chicken, cheese, etc for things like socialisation with visitors, going outside and seeing the scary world etc.
As Mattie says you can also mix up praise and play as rewards too, it doesnt always have to be food. But at this stage food is very useful and your pups response to food will tell you a fair bit too - if he wont take food from visitors or in certain locations for example, when he will at home, you know you have a problem with hose people/locations (ie, hes too stressed to take them, you need to do more work!).
Whilst you do want to phase out food rewards as soon as you can dont be too hasty to mistake this for phasing out classical conditioning, ie 'potentially scary things = food reward'. I t hink thats a common error we all make.
This doesnt mean food rewards all have to be super high value, Ian also recommends that puppies (and even adult dogs) eat very little food from a bowl and get most of their daily intake as rewards for training and socialisation.
I would use normal kibble for stuff he can do well and easily (and start to reward the second or third correct response rather than the first one every time), stick to rewarding first time responses for stuff he isnt so good at, and save high value treats like chicken, cheese, etc for things like socialisation with visitors, going outside and seeing the scary world etc.
As Mattie says you can also mix up praise and play as rewards too, it doesnt always have to be food. But at this stage food is very useful and your pups response to food will tell you a fair bit too - if he wont take food from visitors or in certain locations for example, when he will at home, you know you have a problem with hose people/locations (ie, hes too stressed to take them, you need to do more work!).
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Re: How often...?
I think it helps to replace treat with the word reward or even pay check. because your dogs "reward" doesn't always have to be food.
There are something in life you no longer get a "pay check" for, but you still do them. There are something in life that you will receive a "pay check" for till the day you die. Same idea in my opinion with your dog. The reward/pay check doesn't always have to be a food treat, it can be simply getting to do something your dog really, really likes.
Example. cooperating with putting on leash/collar or harness before going on a walk. You might need to use a food reward to help teach the routine you want your dog to follow getting ready to go on a walk, but this is also an example of something you don't want to have to be treating for the rest of your dog's life. you want to phase out the food reward and let the getting to go out and play, sniff, pee/poop etc be the reward as soon as reasonably possible.
Other things such as emma points out that might be fear based you need to be prepared for a long time of treats to the point of possibly lifetime for some dogs in some cases. I have one of those dogs and while it's too early to say life time, i never leave the house if my dog is with me without his treats going on 2 + years now.
But things like recall, sit, stay etc I we are moving into the phase where he doesn't always get a food reward for performing these things. sometimes it's praise, sometimes it getting to go back to sniffing or playing. sometimes its just expected he sits because that is what I need him to do at that moment for his safety and his only reward is a "good boy".
There are something in life you no longer get a "pay check" for, but you still do them. There are something in life that you will receive a "pay check" for till the day you die. Same idea in my opinion with your dog. The reward/pay check doesn't always have to be a food treat, it can be simply getting to do something your dog really, really likes.
Example. cooperating with putting on leash/collar or harness before going on a walk. You might need to use a food reward to help teach the routine you want your dog to follow getting ready to go on a walk, but this is also an example of something you don't want to have to be treating for the rest of your dog's life. you want to phase out the food reward and let the getting to go out and play, sniff, pee/poop etc be the reward as soon as reasonably possible.
Other things such as emma points out that might be fear based you need to be prepared for a long time of treats to the point of possibly lifetime for some dogs in some cases. I have one of those dogs and while it's too early to say life time, i never leave the house if my dog is with me without his treats going on 2 + years now.
But things like recall, sit, stay etc I we are moving into the phase where he doesn't always get a food reward for performing these things. sometimes it's praise, sometimes it getting to go back to sniffing or playing. sometimes its just expected he sits because that is what I need him to do at that moment for his safety and his only reward is a "good boy".
Re: How often...?
Thats great guys, thanks for all the advice! Really will help once hes out and about! 
His sit is getting VERY VERY good and even without treats he does it upon command. Working on stay at the moment, so i guess its a combination of both good praise, kind words and the odd treat is what you're essentially saying? Ive noticed over the last day or 2 he is getting very excited when people enter the house/room.
Easiest way to curb this behaviour? Dont fuss him when you enter/leave the room? Wait till he is calm and then greet the dog? I dont think everyone is doing it, so will chat with the family later and put that point across!
Thanks again
Eddy
His sit is getting VERY VERY good and even without treats he does it upon command. Working on stay at the moment, so i guess its a combination of both good praise, kind words and the odd treat is what you're essentially saying? Ive noticed over the last day or 2 he is getting very excited when people enter the house/room.
Easiest way to curb this behaviour? Dont fuss him when you enter/leave the room? Wait till he is calm and then greet the dog? I dont think everyone is doing it, so will chat with the family later and put that point across!
Thanks again
Eddy
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easilyconfused
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Re: How often...?
A perfect example of a life reward.
Clip on a lead when the people arrive. Get the dog to sit before he gets a greeting/fuss. Then work on a sit-stay for the greeting fuss. Then increase the time he has to sit and stay for before he greets. The reward is to say hello to the new folk, but he is slowly trained to sit and wait for a couple of minutes while the people get in the house and get settled.
Clip on a lead when the people arrive. Get the dog to sit before he gets a greeting/fuss. Then work on a sit-stay for the greeting fuss. Then increase the time he has to sit and stay for before he greets. The reward is to say hello to the new folk, but he is slowly trained to sit and wait for a couple of minutes while the people get in the house and get settled.
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gingerspice
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Re: How often...?
As far as teaching stay, I was taught a little bit different. Its really just a matter of opinion really, but I thought it was a good suggestion. Instead of teaching the command stay, I was taught to teach a release word for the commands "sit" and "down". For example, once the dog understands what sit means, put them on a leash, tell them to sit, wait a second and then say a release word. I say "free", and then give a reward. If they try to get up I give a verbal correction (just a little ahh ahh) and put a hand up to signal what I want. Its just like teaching stay but just a little different approach.
Then you can gradually increase the amount of time that the pup has to sit there. That way, when you say "sit" that means "sit until I release you". Once you've got him doing this consistently you can start adding distractions....start by rolling a ball by, or throwing treats in front of him. Then you can move to a public place like a park to practice. Then gradually increase the distance and time that you require him to stay in a sit or down. With good training, eventually you will be able to put him in a down and he will stay for hours. This is great for having company, because you can put them on a bed and they are still apart of the fun, but if people don't want a dog sniffing around them this is great. Of course I would start practicing appropriate greetings too and always let your visitors know not to pet, praise, or talk to the dog unless he's displaying calm behavior.
Then you can gradually increase the amount of time that the pup has to sit there. That way, when you say "sit" that means "sit until I release you". Once you've got him doing this consistently you can start adding distractions....start by rolling a ball by, or throwing treats in front of him. Then you can move to a public place like a park to practice. Then gradually increase the distance and time that you require him to stay in a sit or down. With good training, eventually you will be able to put him in a down and he will stay for hours. This is great for having company, because you can put them on a bed and they are still apart of the fun, but if people don't want a dog sniffing around them this is great. Of course I would start practicing appropriate greetings too and always let your visitors know not to pet, praise, or talk to the dog unless he's displaying calm behavior.
