emmabeth i need your help

[sportfish]

i put a post on a few weeks ago regarding my 10 month old collie/lab female. she tends to sporadically poo in the kitchen(where she sleeps) once evry fortnight. i have tried everything from just giving her a snack of an evening to taking her out and staying with her til she poos followed by praise and a treat. she has a strict routine i NEVER deviate from her meal times so i can predict when she will need to poo. the problem is that she will do her usual poos at the usual time nothing has changed in her routine but i will come down to poo. I am currently 8 months pregnant and i am seriously thinking of re homing her if i cant get this behaviour to stop, as i am finding it very stressfull. I love her dearly but cant go on. please help before i crack up

[emmabeth]

Ok - chill out, relax.... breathe!

First off, assuming your dog is regularly wormed and healthy - one poo in the house a fortnight is not going to put your healthy at risk or your babies health either. Dog poo is NOT radioactive neurotoxin.. its just poo!

You have to clean it up outside as well, so you are at no more risk.

Yes it is very frustrating (I live with a dog who has been so scared when toiletting outside in my garden by a neighbours dog, that he will NOT now toilet outside in my garden much of the time. I have tried everything and bar walking him ten miles five times a day, there really is no cure for it - keeping him under close supervision just makes him withhold his poo until he makes himself physically ill!, so i DO know just how horrible it is to deal with indoors poo. He is housetrained... take him to any one ELSES house on a different street.. he will go outside and never have an accident!.)

Last time you posted it was once a week yes? So if its now once a fortnight there is an improvement.

Some dogs do take longer to learn than others, just like some humans do too.

I dont remember if you posted what you were feeding, but some foods will create more poo than others - those with a high sugar and cereal content are often the culprits. What food are you feeding?

Does she let you know during the day that she wants to go out? Or is she let out so frequently she has not yet learned to ask?

Learning to ask is a key stage in toilet training and its not uncommon that people believe a dog is housetrained because there are rarely any accidents, when in fact the dog just has frequent access to outdoors, but has neither learned to ask, nor wait.

If she does let you know, can she still let you know at night? Or is she unable to get to you at night to tell you she needs to go out?

I do realise that you will probably be being bombarded by health visitors and relatives all throwing their arms up in horror at a dog in the house with a baby imminent and the dog sometimes poo's in the house.

The thing is.. your baby is going to be pooing itself with frequent regularity for the first four years of its life or maybe longer - you are not going to expect to have a toilet trained baby in a matter of months.

Unless you have a seperate area of your garden for your dog to poo in, your dog and your baby will have access to the garden together, and may well pick up germs from one another (babies get worms too!).

So, relax a little, give your dog time and see if there is anything ive put that will help. Obviously you need to clean up properly after the dog has an accident, but believe me when I say, dog poo is NOT a nuclear bomb that will wipe you and your child off the planet - and the old tale about 'dog poo makes kids go blind'... well the amount of truth in that is tiny.
For that to happen your dog must have worms. He must be shedding worms in his poo. Then the poo must sit on the ground for around 5 days in a warm humid environment at a constant temperature, then the child must consume a good tablespoon of poo, then the odds of the child even having partial sight damage are very very low (think there has been one case in the last 15 years!).

For a start - you worm your dog. So no worms. Even if you didnt or some escaped death, you are not going to leave any poo hanging about for five days. Even if you did that, you are rarely going to find five days in the UK where the weather is a constant temperature and humidity - and even if all those things were to happen, how likely is your child to eat that much poo?

So please.... breathe, relax, enjoy your dog and when your baby comes along, enjoy him/her as well.

[sportfish]

thanks for that i do feel abit better about it now. im response to your questions, no she never lets me know when she wants out so now i let her out at regular intervals normally at the same time everyday. i have caughther just stand up and sqwat for a poo without even attempting to let me know she wanted out. she is fed on chudleys original which doesnt seem to cause problems her poo is perfectly formed and she does go 3X daily with the odd extra that i find in the mornings. i guess i am stressing too much probably because im on my own whilst my husband is abroad and i will try to relax. I tend to be given unwanted opinions by everyone telling me she should not be doing that at her age, just makes me wonder if im doing something wrong. I definately dont trust her 100% thats for sure. thanks again for your advise and ill try to chill

[emmabeth]

3 x or more a day... thats a lot of poo! It may be that a different dog food will create less poo and she wont need to go so often (although right now going often gives you more chances to set her up to succeed and teach her to ask to go out).

Ok, i think with your regular routine lettings out and her never asking to go out, we could have hit the real root cause here... shes not really housetrained!

Do you go out with her and reward her - if so, are the rewards really instant enough for her to link them with what she did?

If you think not - try clicker training her toiletting (get her used to the clicker and what it means, and then click as she is pooping/peeing and reward).

When she really truly sees that going outside is VERY rewarding, and that for that to be rewarding you MUST see her actually do it, she will be more inclined to ask.

At that stage then you keep her in the same room as you all the time and you wait it out, wait for her to ask you in some way (preferably something like a bump on the leg or coming and looking right at you rather than whining or barking), and then let her out.

If you have her with you then she cant sneak off and do it somewhere else.

As far as dogs and babies go, everyone is an expert and everyone elses is doing whatever faster, better, sooner.....

Ignore them, shes your dog not theirs, she will get it and if she has an accident asides from the minor annoyance of accidentally stepping in it, it really isnt a massive deal. I bet if you chill out, she might well respond better as well.

[Owdb1tch]

i have caughther just stand up and sqwat for a poo without even attempting to let me know she wanted out.

And THAT is a VITAL piece of information.

Most dogs don't do that. When a poo is imminent, they circle and sniff and potter until they find JUST the right place. Sounds as if she is being caught short, which means either stress is loosening her bowels or she has a (probably very minor) health issue.

So - try probiotics. Several ways of doing this:

Proper canine probiotics from the vet. Expensive but excellent.

Plain live bio yoghurt with a big blob of honey and grated or stewed apple mixed in with her food every time you feed. Continue until you have had several poo-free weeks. Cheap, effective but takes time and application.

Homeopathic bowel nosodes. You need a consultation with a homeopathic vet for this. Expensive but quick results.

No matter how normal her poo looks, something isn't quite right. Was she very wormy when you got her? Puppies often have worm damage if the breeder did not worm them often enough.

[Ocelot0411]

As far as dogs and babies go, everyone is an expert and everyone elses is doing whatever faster, better, sooner.....

Truest words ever spoken Em. I am unfortunate enough to have a number of 'experts' in my life. Most of them are incredibily special as they are experts in almost every field, especially dog training despite having never having owned dogs themselves . They are either very special and talented people or full of it - and I can tell you where the smart money's at! I also find that its the people who offer their opinions the most readily, who have the least knowledge about the subject they are about to spout drivel on.

So yes Sportfish ignore them, or better still tell them to butt out, if you want an opinion you can ask for it and ask for it on this forum where there are peole who do know what they are on about (like Emmabeth and Owdb1tch). Also as Em said, I think that dogs are far more sensitve to our emotions that we think and the fact that you are anxious about it is probably exacerbating the situation. I understand that the fact that your husband is away and you are heavily pregnant will not help at all, but also try to think that stress is not good for you and your baby either. So deep breaths.

Best of luck and lets us know how you get on. We are all rooting for you!

[katowaggytail]

Hi,

I know all the advice is daunting and H/V's and Midwives get the hebbies over pets esp dogs in the house. They probably mean well, but in the end they just freak you out! Your husband is away and you have no one to bounce off and help you talk things through.

I know it is easier said than done to chill! but Emm and OB and all the others that use this forum are here for you, and have you and your dogs interests at heart.

Please keep us posted and no matter how trivial you may think it is, or how bad you feel, post it here. We will try our best, all be it remotely, to advise and support.

It will get better - until you have your baby and then you'll get loads of unwanted/contradicting advice that will make you want to scream and head for the nearest bottle of red!! I'm speaking from personal exprience here!!

Have heart.

Fi

[Mattie]

I had a pup and a baby, pup had to be toilet trained as they all do but no harm came to my son, I had 2 more sons afterwards and they are all big stapping men over 6ft

It is now suspected that the reason so many children have asthma is because they are not introduced to enough germs as babies/toddlers/children and those brought up with pets have better imune systems than children that are i pet free houses so you are doing your baby a favour.

When my boys were little, I cleaned the floors nearly every day and when my pup had an accident I cleaned up as soon as I discovered it. In those days there wasn't biological washing liquid so I used whte vinegar. These days I dilute it 50/50 but when my sons were little I used it neat.

It is lovely on a summer's day pushing your pram with a dog trotting happily next to you.

[sportfish]

hank you to everyone who has given me avise i am really grateful. emmabeth yes i do go out with her when she goes to the toilet i stay until she has done something and then probably got ott with the praise and treats when something is done my neighbours must think im a nutter !!. silly as it sounds im worried about changing her food for fear of coming down to watery poo (nice) . ill give everything a go and ill keep you all posted once again thank you

[sportfish]

well, after over a week of being really good i came downstairs to 3 piles of poo!!!! i give up i am thinking of changing her food do you have any idea what would be the best food to try i am on a budget so not too expensive please. thanks for your help AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ocelot0411]

3 piles of poo over night sounds a lot to me. I think this is now a health issue. I am sure some of the more experience people on here will be able to point you in the right direction.

[katowaggytail]

Please get a check up - like Ocelot says, 3 is alot.

What food do you use now? I've recently changed from Bakers to Burgess Sensitive...(recommendation from here!), it has less additives than most and is reasonably priced. It has also had the effect of smaller poos and less wind!

Fi

[Mattie]

I used to have a lot of poos from Joe before I realised he had food allergies, when I changed him to Burgess Sensitive, the poos are now about 3 every 24 hours, he gets fed 3 times a day, and are much smaller than they were.

What food are you feeding?

I have just realised, she is still a baby, about 10 months old.

[sportfish]

She is on chudleys original i kept her on the same food that her breeder was using (obviously she was on puppy then) i decided today that she needs a check up at the vets which i will endevour to do as long i dont go into labour. it never occurred to me she might have an allergy or IBS!! i realise she is also still a baby but is this really normal?? keep thinking i have done something wrong or im missing something. although i made progress this time i didnt get stress or upset i just calmly and quietly cleaned up. hoorah!! thanks again for advise

[Mattie]

Not sure which of Chudleys you feed but in the Life Stage Junior the main ingredient is wheat, it also has maize which isn't good, and I have never heard of prairie meal.

In the Supreme, it has Cereals, Meat and Animal Derivatives (min 14% chicken), not good, it doesn't say which ceareals or meat.

Going through them all, there is far too much cereal in all of them.