Rehabbing an Ex-Fighting Pit Bull?

[Mattie]

I've been doing a lot of research about dog behavior and training options, and I'm thinking about enrolling Chance in a group obedience class put on the by the animal behavior club here at school. It's run by students and a professor. I've talked to other students and to the club president about how/if they work with dog aggressive dogs. She said they're worked with specially at a distance until the dog is comfortable being moved closer and closer into the group. I've never owned a dog-aggresive dog before, and I've heard mixed reactions about putting them into group classes. I would appreciate a little input as well as any training advice, as I've got a few good friends with a few good dogs willing to help train Chance face-to-face with other dogs when he's ready.

If you are extremely lucky to have someone to go to that understands dog aggression and won't ask the dog to go faster than he can then grab it, these people are very few and do a very good job. Any sign that they are moving your dog on too quickly, run away, you are doing a good job on your own.

When we give advice on here we have to consider the safety of the owner and anyone else, move too quickly and everyone may be put in some sort of danger. Many people it is their first experience of an aggressive dog and they have to learn as well. The slower these go the better for them and the dog.

Also (sorry this is so long but I know that all details are important when asking questions), my roommate and I have been letting Chance and her puppy get more physical when they play with each other as opposed to just fetching in the yard, and so far it seems to be working out very well. Those two have literally wrestled each other for an hour straight. We always keep our eyes and ears out for any signs/sounds of distress from the puppy, but thus far we haven't had any issues. Puppy is a 15 lbs, 4.5 month mix-breed. We actually had a friend come over the other night, and we let the dogs wrestle each other (which we don't do when we have company over, but it was just the one guy stopping by), and he made the comment that Chance, while being mouthy, was gentle enough not to bite down. The puppy looks absolutely thrilled that Chance actually wrestles with him now. Chance even rolls on the floor and gives the puppy his turn being the "dominant one."

This sort of play has nothing to do with dominance, Chance is teaching the puppy to defend himself if he is ever attacked by other dogs. It is by play that dogs learn just as our children learn more and quicker by play.

[Nettle]

Go to the class without your dog and observe, observe, observe. I agree your dog should not be exposed to a class or group right now, but you can learn a lot by watching, for good and bad. You can hone your judgement about when and how the dogs will react and whether the owners are timing their controlling and distance work properly, and this WILL help you with your own dog.

[rnor1120]

So after a lot of thought, conversation with a trainer friend of mine, and more conversation with the president of the training club, I decided to attend the first class, with Chance. She said if I was still on the fence I could go to the first class and not pay or commit to more classes, so I had nothing to lose. The class is small, only six other dogs- mostly puppies. The trainer in charge told me to take as much distance as I needed with Chance, and that we'd work strictly under his comfort level, IE we don't being moving closer to the class until Chance is ready. Since this was a beginner's obedience class (see: "Today we're going to help your puppy learn his name!"), Chance and I were given special instructions to practice focusing maneuvers like "look up," "stay," that kind of thing (which I've already trained him to do), and as he gets more comfortable focusing all of his attention on me, and as he hammers that out perfectly, we'll begin trying to move closer to the group. She said, "Ideally we'll have him with the rest of the group by the end of classes, but we won't push it. We'll see what we can do with him." The class is strictly positive reinforcement and all clicker training. The trainer has herself fostered and successfully rehabilitated aggressive dogs, so she understands the importance of moving slowly and at his pace. I think we're going to stick with it, I have a good feeling about it. He really took to the clicker training and I've been working on our "look up's" and "stay's" on our walks which he of course is doing well with. He still lunges at certain fences but seems to be getting more comfortable focusing his attention on me at other ones. We're working hard. It's slow, but we'll get there.

[rnor1120]

Things with Chance had been going along very well for the past few weeks. I can get him to sit and stay in front of a fence with barking dogs and walk away, then command him to come and he does. He'd been doing so well at obedience class too. Yesterday was his best day! I could walk him in front of dogs and between dogs, as long as I gave him about an 8 foot buffer zone. He saw two dogs playing and really, really wanted to lunge but I commanded him to sit and look up, which he did. I was so proud. Until puppy play time started. The class is taught outdoors, and so sometime after class a few of the owners will allow their dogs to socialize. Keep in mind there are only five or six others in the class beside myself, so it's very small. Usually at this point I just leave because watching the dogs playing makes Chance really nervous and he usually starts lunging. Well two of the owners decided to let their puppies off-leash, and at that point I really wanted to leave, but they were between me and my car. I thought about trying to go wide around and sneak in behind them, but another girl tried that and both pups (about 40 lbs each) saw her and her dog and ran off after them. So at that point I figured the best thing I could do was keep my distance and keep Chance calm by asking him to do certain tasks (sit, look up, down, paw, etc). It worked until the two dogs saw Chance and took off after us. Everyone in the class was made aware that Chance is aggressive and other dogs need to be kept away, so you'd think before unhooking the dogs, someone would have thought about this. Needless to say, when the pups decided to greet Chance, running full steam at him of course, it wasn't good. He saw it coming, and first tried to jump up on me. At that point I tried calmly and quickly walking him away in the other direction, but they caught up. I'm sure this wasn't the right thing to do, but I tried to encourage Chance to jump on me so I could hold him up and he wouldn't be able to grab a dog, but that didn't work. He grabbed one of the dogs by the scruff and held on. The other owners and the trainer had come running over when the pups took off after Chance, and despite being surrounded by people, I was the only one doing anything. I grabbed Chance by the back legs and pulled while the other owner (a professor and a VET I might add) stood by and did nothing. I finally managed to separate the two (by myself) and fortunately the other dog wasn't hurt. I was so upset and frustrated that I ended up breaking down and sobbing. Not because I was shaken up by the fight, but because I knew damn well that two months of careful training were blown in about 45 seconds by two careless owners. No one offered an apology, only saying don't worry about it because it really wasn't my fault. The trainer apologized and said from now on dogs wouldn't be allowed off-leash, but I was under the impression that that policy was already a given. Chance's face was all cut up from the other dog (and yet the other dog didn't have a scratch on him - Chance didn't even break the skin). The trainer said it could have been worse and if Chance really wanted to hurt the dog he would have, it was most likely a defense thing. Poor Chance got home, ate his dinner, and didn't get off my bed all night.

Today wasn't much better. I decided to give him a week off from any other dog under any circumstance to let him defuse a little. So, in my fenced-in yard, I took both Chance and roommate's puppy outside for fetch (despite everything, he's still buds with the puppy). Chance saw another dog, JUMPED OVER THE GATE, and ran at the dog and its owner. I tore off after him and told the dog's owner to kick Chance if she had to. She never had to, he got within ten feet or so, put up a bully act, and took off into the woods. He's never done anything to other dogs on the other side of the fence before. I'm so frustrated right now I'm on the verge of tears. Two long months of carefully planning walks, hours and hours upon hours of clicker training and obedience work, heavy vigilance whenever he's outside, EVERYTHING I've done has been ruined. I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm so frustrated and upset, I'm so afraid that my dog will be able to go out in public. And I'm not talking long walks on the beach or puppy play dates, I just want to take him on a walk and not have to apologize to a surprise walker for my dog lunging like a maniac or take him to the vets' without muzzling him.

[emmabeth]

Oh no!

I know you know this isn't your fault but it bears repeating anyway - big hugs and big glass of cyber-wine for you!

You are doing exactly the right things and personally I WOULD have a chat with the trainer and have them explain to the other dog owners just HOW bad the repercussions can be, from allowing their dogs to hurtle up to a dog they KNOW isnt happy about that. And actually well done to Chance for JUST hanging on to one of them and holding it, rather than trying to kill it as I am sure he could have done. It says a LOT about him, and you, that he turned to you for help first, and then did the bare minimum to keep himself safe!

I know it doesn't feel like it at the moment but there is every chance you CAN get back to where you were - take the time out, give Chance as easy a ride as is possible and you should get back to where you were quicker than you think.

You may need to block the view through your fence and fit an overhang (just wire mesh or trellis should do) so he can't jump it again, just to be on the safe side!

[nightsrainfall]

I'd secure the fence. Chance just got attacked, if I got attacked and saw something else that might be a threat I'd try to run or chase it away too. Ever see humans who are afraid of dogs wave their arms, act big, and yell? I realize it's not quite the same - but there's two really good points in this. Chance did not break the skin (pitbulls actually have a very 'soft' mouth when they aren't intending a bite) and Chance did not actually attack the people he chased. Yeah there's some danger of him scaring the wrong person or chasing the wrong type of dog - but it's not full aggression. If Chance where in my previous animal shelter back in Iowa that I volunteered at (when I originally commented on this post), He would NOT have a "keep out" sign or "reactive/aggressive dog" sign - basically saying there's a whole lotta hope with this, so don't feel discouraged. You've been through a lot!

Take Emmabeth's advice. Secure the fence or only take him out on leash. (Actually the out on leash may be best if possible because then you can work with him so if he sees that dog five miles away and is uncertain you will be there to make it a positive experience). Also go back to basics and take it slow. He's a good dog, and it make take him awhile to come around again - but he will get there.

Take it one day at a time - and there's a lot of people here who will try to help, advise, or point you in the direction of a good resource (such as other threads, books, or ideas), or tell you to pull out some chocolates and wine. Destressing takes time for both owner and dog. Also for people and dogs, overcoming any event also takes time. I think you are doing a great job though, and I really have faith it will work out.

[Nettle]

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming on here and telling us this, and keeping faith with your dog.

Cyber wine, chocolates and cyberhugs. Together we can move on from this.

First off, secure that fence. Dogs must not come in: dogs must not get out. With the fence safe, you take a lot of pressure off all of you.

The lesson here was hard learned but those lessons stay with us. By coming here again and telling us, a lot of people who read and never post, plus a lot of people who come for advice and then ignore it, have had a wake-up call. Your awful experience is a tough reminder:

That WE ALONE are responsible for our dogs' welfare
That we cannot trust other people to be sensible
That everyone, no matter what letters they have after their name, is a blithering idiot until proven otherwise
That many dog trainers are not quick enough and so WE must be the ones who holler 'Get that dog back' or 'Keep those leads on' or 'Get out of my way NOW' and never mind what anyone thinks just yell it and get the whole class under control

I used to be very quiet and polite until a similar incident in the distant past. Now I don't give a (insert words of choice) what anyone thinks - my dogs' safety comes first.

Next time - and there will be many next times and not just in training class - don't wait for a situation to unfold and try to manage it - be pre-emptive and as soon as there is the slightest sign that something is starting to unravel, get after it and take command. Many people just stand there, as you have found - I bawled a complete stranger out two days ago because she just stood there and let her dog attack another that was on a lead this wasn't training class - I was just out walking my dogs, and neither party was anything to do with me.

You've chosen a long hard road full of ruts and chasms. We can help you. You've done well. It won't be easy but together you and Chance can go a long way. The early work you have done has not been ruined, but you have had a major setback. De-stress both of you with some quiet days and nights away from other dogs and people, and come back into it gently next week or the week after.

[jacksdad]

set back yes, all previous work blown, no.

And think about how much you have learned...your first response post attack was to take a week of and let Chance calm down...brilliant.

Jack was jumped soon after we finally started making progress last year by a pit bull. Irony is the Pit ended up on the short end of the stick on that move. It took Jack a good month to calm down and start moving back to where we were pre attack. But we did recover that "lost" ground and moved forward. Anyway, how you handle the post attack will make a difference in getting back to where you were pre attack.

my 2 cents...your week off from all other dogs, again brilliant. Then take it back to the basics. Avoid dogs on walks for a little while, then if pre attack you could be 10 feet away, post attack make that 15 feet from dogs. that kind of thing. Be very generous with the yummy treats when dogs are around. DON'T be stingy. Do some heavy classical conditioning. Dog = treat any distance. heck even IF your not sure he notices the dog...which is unlikely that he hasn't. and don't worry about 100% calm. some low level reaction, pacing, chuffing, even light lunging...still treat. BUT if your getting those reactions don't just stand there and treat, move for distance as calmly as possible.

then after a while phase back in what you were doing before the attack.

I know this has been discouraging, but all isn't lost. I very much still remember achieving some fragile progress and the HUGE emotional downer it was to have that progress disrupted and set back. But each time Jack recovered quicker and we got back on track quicker. So don't lose hope.

[Secret Someone]

Just wondering... How is Chance doing now?

It's sounds like he's incredibly lucky to have you. I wish more people had the patience for their dogs that you seem to.

[rnor1120]

Thanks for asking! Chance is doing very well. Unfortunately I've taken a bit of a break from other-dog training in the wake of finals, but I did keep up with basic obedience training. As of late there's been a chow chow-ish looking dog wandering around my block on my "dog free" route, so i've been keeping heavy watch on our walks. The other day after he relieved himself, I dropped the leash without looking (dummy move, d'oh) to clean it up and as usual commanded Chance to sit. Well he started getting antsy like he wanted to take off after something so I re-commanded him to stay, which he did. I grabbed the leash and turned around just in time to see the other dog running up the hill. I couldn't have been prouder. I'm on holiday now in the USA (he's with my roommate...) for a week. I've gotten him theonine (an herbal supplement) to help him relax a bit when I'm doing training with other dogs, so we'll see how that goes. NOT as a cure all, just to help him chill out when we're training.