Housebreaking advice 8 week old puppy & working full tim

[sheltrpn]

I am hoping for some advice. I am a single mom with a 10 year old son, we are getting a female cocker spaniel puppy from a wonderful breeder in March, I have used the crate method before, however, I was home full time at the time.

I leave for work at 7:15, my son leaves for school at 8:30, returns at 3:30 and I arrive home at 5:00.

I know realistically that a puppy really doesn't have control of its bladdar until approximately 16 weeks, so saying all that what is the best way to start housebreaking the puppy. Should I use an exercise pen with a crate connected to it and leave it open, I don't think crating for such a long time is appropriate.

Any advice would be appreciated

[Fab_lab]

Can I just ask why are you getting a puppy ?
I'm sorry to say the hours you work are to long for a puppy , there is no one around to put the training in ..Also Its alot of work to put on a 10 year old boy as he will be the main person coming home and sorting out the mess .
Puppies of that age still have four meals a day ,who is around to give the puppy its midday meal ?

would you not be better getting an older dog that can be left longer ..

[Ocelot0411]

Of course the other alternative is to employ someone to come and see to your pup a couple of times aday when you are out, say once mid-morning and once in the afternoon, to feed, play etc. Or is there another friend or family member that could help out?

[Owdb1tch]

Cancel the puppy. You are not in a position to offer it any of the care it needs. It will be every bit as needy as a human baby, and you wouldn't be leaving that alone in a crate for hours.

Try again when you are working part-time or else given up work entirely.

I am honestly shocked that the breeder is prepared to sell you a pup, given your current circumstances.

When you have the time to give it, I'm sure you will be a lovely home for a dog.

[katowaggytail]

I have to agree with the others.
I work full time but can organise my day around my dog - or he comes with me. I purposley didn't get a pup for all the reasons mentioned above, maybe an older rescue dog when you have more time... but now I feel isn't right unless you can have people go in during the day, and that will, I'm afraid cost.
Please think, a dog is a full time commitment a pup even more so to start off with.

[Mattie]

I am hoping for some advice. I am a single mom with a 10 year old son, we are getting a female cocker spaniel puppy from a wonderful breeder in March,

No good breeder would let one of their pups go to someone in your circumstances, the breeder is probably a back yard breeder, in it for the money. If this is the case, you may have problems with your pup.

It is impossible to train anything, animal or child, if there is nobody there and babies, which a puppy is, need constant attention all the time. As well as needing 4 meals a day, training they also need socialising and that can't be done in an empty house. More dogs are pts for aggression caused by not enough socialisation than any other reason.

Cocker Spaniels are working dogs and need a lot of stimulation and exercise, if you are not their how are you going to give your puppy her needs. Like babies and children, she has needs that have to be met.

It is not fair to expect a 10 year old to come into a dirty house that has pee and poo all over the floors and expect them to clean it up either. They get fed up and stop doing the job properly, they could take it out of the dog by ignoring it etc or even start to hit the dog for making a mess. At 10 years old, they don't have the mental control over themselves yet, that comes later when they are more mature.

You are not being fair on either your son or the pup to take a pup at the moment. Your son will probably get more fun out of an older day that he can't get out of a pup for some time.

[sheltrpn]

I have to say this was my first post and I am a little taken back by all the responses judging my wanting to get a puppy and the type of breeder that I am dealing with. I am prepared to have a pet sitter come in and to put in the time and take time off work and believe it or not, my son being 10 is very responsible and able to help with this.

Just because I am a single mom and work doesn't mean that my home will not be a good one and that I am not capable of having a wonderful puppy.

There are too many horror stories in my area because of puppy mills that that is why I am going out of my area for a puppy from a reputable breeder, I do not want to take a chance on getting an older dog that has been turned in because of issues.

I was looking for support not to be put down..

[danabanana]

Just because I am a single mom and work doesn't mean that my home will not be a good one and that I am not capable of having a wonderful puppy.

Nobody said your home won't be a good one. I have to agree with everyone else though a puppy is not for anyone who works full time. I am also suprised the breeder is selling you a puppy in your current situation.

7:15am to 5pm is a very long time to be left - I know you say your son will help but he is 10 and with all due respect I very much doubt he can give the puppy what she needs. Even with a puppy sitter in during the day - how much time is the puppy going to spend bonding with [/i]you?

I have a 10 week old pup at the moment - she needs to go to the toilet every hour to 90 minutes and poos 3 times a day - that's a lot of mess you are leaving your son to come home to (I also think that 16 weeks is optimistic for a pup to hold it's bladder for that length of time - I would have thought at least 6/7 months).How is he going to get on with his homework with a puppy that needs constant supervision?

I agree that an older dog would be more appropriate in your situation - or a cat than can look after itself?

[Ocelot0411]

I am sorry you feel that way as I assure you that no one was trying to 'put you down'. All that we are driving at is have you thought this through and are you aware of how demanding a puppy is going to be? If you have not had a puppy before (obviously I have no idea of your doggie history) then trust me they are really hard work and you can expect the same sleepless nights, tearing your hair out moments that you probably had with your son as a baby.

Just because I am a single mom and work doesn't mean that my home will not be a good one and that I am not capable of having a wonderful puppy.

I don't think you being a single parent has any bearing on this at all, nor do I think anyone else was insinuating that it did, the issue is simply the amount of time pup would have to be alone, or in the care of your child. I understand that we all have to work and that very few of us have ideal circumstances or are priviledged enough to not have to work for a living, but if that is the case then we have to ask ourselves are we being fair getting a puppy?

When getting a dog or puppy, we all have to look at our individual circumstances to decide what breed, what age of dog etc, will fit in to our lifestyles. I think what the people on this forum are trying to say to you is that, at present, it doesn't sound like a puppy would fit into your lifestyle.

With regards to the comments about the breeder, I am afriaid I would agree that the comments made are justified, as these are the questions that they should have been asking you before agreeing to let you have the pup.

I am sorry if you feel offended by the responses you have recieved, but please give them some thought nonetheless as everyone genuinely has the best interest of the puppy at heart.

Take care.

[Mattie]

I have to say this was my first post and I am a little taken back by all the responses judging my wanting to get a puppy and the type of breeder that I am dealing with. I am prepared to have a pet sitter come in and to put in the time and take time off work and believe it or not, my son being 10 is very responsible and able to help with this.

We can only reply to what you post, you never mentioned getting a pet sitter. If you read my other post you will see that a 10 year old no matter how responsible should not have to come home and clean up after a puppy. I have seen this happen, a child begged for a pup and she would care for it, but coming in from school day after day to the mess she couldn't cope with. She was a responsible 10 year old.

Just because I am a single mom and work doesn't mean that my home will not be a good one and that I am not capable of having a wonderful puppy.

Nobody has said this, you are twisting what has been said. Several have suggested an older dog instead.

There are too many horror stories in my area because of puppy mills that that is why I am going out of my area for a puppy from a reputable breeder, I do not want to take a chance on getting an older dog that has been turned in because of issues.

Not all dogs are tuned in because of issues, many are because the owner has health problems, changed circumstances etc and there is a lot of knowledge about these dogs.

I was looking for support not to be put down..

Nobody is putting you down, you asked for our opinions but because you didn't like what we said, you are now saying we have attacked you. We gave our honest opinions that a puppy is not suitable for someone who works all day and that goes for partners as well as single people.

[sheltrpn]

maybe I didn't post enough about the circumstances. I have had dogs before from the puppy stage and worked full time.

I do realize puppies are alot of work but they are worth it. It has been many years since I have had a puppy and was just wondering if there were other methods for training that are newer than I am use to.

I am not expecting my son to clean up a mess, I am thinking of using a play yard where I can have fresh water for the puppy during the day and a crate attached for it to go in there and sleep as its den.

the breeder is aware of my situation, has asked many questions and has offered to keep the puppy until it is 12 weeks old

Sorry for any misunderstandings.

[katowaggytail]

I am a single mum also, have been since my daughter was 2. It's hard work all round. Please don't be too upset, it wasn't meant that way - honest!

[emmabeth]

Ok with my mod hat on.. no one has been mean, no one is putting you down.

From a purely mathematical point of view.

24 hours in a day.
8 hours for sleep.
10 hours out of the house for work.


That leaves 6 hours. In which you will need to cook, clean, wash, eat, spend time with your child, go out, relax in front of the TV, go to appointments...

SO realistically, given you and your child must take priority over the puppy.. you have probably less than 4 hours a day for the puppy.

4 hours a day. Read that.. Four Hours.

IS that honestly sufficient time for a puppy? Do you really think that you are offering that puppy the very best home possible when you have only four hours?

If you do, may I suggest you are kidding yourself.

I have a 5 month old puppy here. This is roughly what we aimed to do every day when she was 10 weeks old...

6am breakfast.
6.20am - 6.40am - outside toiletting (could be quicker, often longer).
6.40am - 9am - sleeping.
9am - 9.20am - toiletting, playing in the garden.
9.20am - 9.35am - clicker training, practice grooming, recall training.
9.35am - 10am - supervised play with other dogs.
10am - 12noon - nap time, supervised to prevent idle chewing of cables, shoes, sofas etc.

12noon - 12.30pm - outside the house watching traffic/meeting people (socialisation).
12.30pm to 1pm - lunch time
1pm - 1-20pm - outside toiletting.
1.20pm - 3pm - napping/playing/beating up other dogs - all supervised.
3pm - 4pm - 'training play' ie more grooming, clicker, visit neighbours etc. plus toilet break.
4pm - 5pm - sleep.
5pm - 5-20pm - tea time
5.20pm - 5.40pm - toiletting outside.
5.40pm - 7pm - playing/sleeping/toiletting
7pm - 7-30pm - visiting neighbour/watching traffic/meeting people
7-30pm - 8pm - toiletting, recall practice in garden.
8pm - 8.20pm - last meal
8.20pm - 8.40pm - toiletting outside.
8.40pm - 10pm - sleeping, playing, all supervised
10pm - small snack (carrot or treats in a kong)
11pm - lights out and big dogs go upstairs, i went to sleep on the sofa.

In with all that lot, there were also the mad 'drop what you are doing and run' dashes to the backdoor to go out for the inevitable unscheduled wees/poops.

Ditto, the mad dashes to remove from the puppy some 'non puppy' item she was chewing up (ie the sofa..)

As you can see.. there are no times there where she wasnt supervised, barring 3 minutes it takes me to go to the loo - i cooked with her there, she was supervised whilst i showered, i slept down here with her...

These are the things you NEED to do, these things really are not optional, with a puppy.

Because i did do these things, at 5 months she can now be left for an hour or two, she now asks to go outside to the toilet and will attempt to wait (*she still doesnt always manage that but thats fine), she is not likely to chew up all the wires or eat the sofa.. BECAUSE the work was put in when she was very tiny.

The first two months of your puppies life with you are absolutely crucial, you will achieve more then than at any other time and do so more easily as well.

You may think 'well thats easy for you, you are not a single parent, you don't appear to have a job', but that isnt the truth. I have many commitments, not least of which are my other half, my other four dogs who all need walks, training, feeding, playtime, grooming.. AND my paid job, AND running this forum as well as my own leisure time.

So even though I dont have a child and i dont have to go out to work as I work from home, i STILL never achieve more than 5/6 hours sleep, because that is the only place i can steal an extra few hours from.

You cannot do that. Having a puppy means making sacrifices to fit YOUR life around the puppies needs.

What you are attempting to do is to fit your puppies needs into your existing life, and that is not the mark of a 'great owner'. I am sad to say that, but it is the truth.

You cannot sacrifice your work, your sleep your time with your child or feeding/cleaning/running your home.

You will end up compromising on the puppies needs instead - do you honestly want to spend 15 years with a dog you didnt have time for, with all the problems that creates?

I can safely predict, as can Owdbitch, Ocelot, Mattie and the many other experienced posters on here that:

Your puppy will take far longer to housetrain, miss out on valuable socialisation, struggle to 'grow out of' puppy behaviours such as play biting, have difficulty bonding with you as the owner...

Your son may very very well get well and truly sick of coming home to wee and poo, a turbo charged puppy whose only desire is to leap on him and bite him very hard and bounce around like a lunatic until you return.

This will not be the dream dog he visualises, as responsible a child as he is, he is still a child and he WILL get sick of it, and he will very likely ignore the pup as he comes home, which will inadvertantly create a lot more problems.

Can you be sure he will not shout at a whining howling puppy who is covered in wee and poo (because 8 week old puppies do stand in their own poo and it will have been several hours since the puppy sitter was there), teaching her that if she whines and yells someone WILL respond eventually?

Will he know to stand stock still and ignore her when she play bites his ankles, or will he get sick of it as any child will, and dance about yelling because it hurts, teaching her that this is a fantastic game?

You are responsible for your puppy, not your child - you are risking your child becoming responsible for training mistakes that will affect both your relationships with the puppy.

This is a recipe for disaster.

Why not set yourselves up to succeed with an older dog, used to being at home, already at the very least, capable of holding his/her bladder for several hours at a time.

Make life easier for all of you, and cancel this puppy.

[Mattie]

In December 2006 I took on a 20 week old pup straight from the pound to foster over the Christmas period, muggins here adopted her in January

Tilly is a lovely girl but does have problems from not being socialised properly when a pup, although most are sorted now. She should have learnt about the noise of a hoover, washing machine etc, but didn't. These did cause her problems.

She should have learnt about traffic, this is still a small problem because she is nervous of traffic. She should have learnt how to approach other dogs, thanks to my other dogs she does speak dog language but didn't when she came.

At 20 months old I should be able to leave her without crating her, but because she didn't have the early training, I can't. Not very nice for her but essential for her safety.

Tilly isn't a bad dog, in fact she is very good, but it would have been a lot easier on her to learn all this when she was younger.