Puppy nipping **

[mm0523]

No matter how hard we try, we cannot seem to get rid of the nipping. He is 4 months old and I understand part of it may be the puppy stage but there is a point where it needs to get under control. He is growing so fast and going to be upwards of 100 pounds. We need to get it under control before it's too late.

On another note, we cannot seem to get him to listen for the life of us. He will sit, shake, lay down, sometimes stay, sometimes not. Other then that, he does what he wants, not matter what our attempt to be dominant is.

Any advice? Please help!

[nightsrainfall]

Could you please give the break down of a typical day for him? And it may also be helpful to tell what you have tried so far.

I'm not a puppy-person, but others with knowledge on puppies and far more experience than me with them will probably be around shortly.

[mm0523]

Well, we have tried a spray bottle when he bites. Was effective at first but then he just began to try to drink the water.
- tried ignoring him when he bit and praising him when he was calm and then he just tried to bit when we finally pet him.
- tried handing him chew toys when he came for our hands, he wouldn't take the toy and still likes to nip hands.

He has a lot of energy although we take him for daily exercise. Jumping and nipping are normally his "excitment behaviors".

[Fundog]

First off, we don't subscribe to "dominance theory" here. Contrary to what you may have been taught, dogs don't really want to "dominate" us, neither do puppies try to manipulate us, any more than a newborn human infant does. Dogs simply aren't capable of such treachery and plotting.

Next: stop using the spray bottle on him, as you have figured out it does not work, and it really isn't very kind anyway. We teach our dogs kindness and good manners through showing them kindness and good manners. It works better that way.

Now: One thing you are doing right is always trying to have an appropriate chew toy in hand, and offering him that when he starts nipping. As it does not seem to be helping at this point, however, you can also try removing yourself from the room-- shut yourself in the bathroom-- for just ten seconds. Any longer than that, and your puppy will forget what was going on, and will fail to make the connection between his behavior and you leaving the room. And he is also likely to find some other mischief to get into. When you come out of the bathroom (we also call this a "time out"), and he resumes his over-excited behavior, just take yourself right back out again. You may have to repeat this action 60 times in an hour, but he will eventually "get it," and you will keep all of your fingers and toes intact. Also be prepared for him to try all the harder at getting your attention-- afterall, biting has worked up to now, so he is going to try even harder to get your attention by continuing to bite. You must be consistent and hang in there-- do not give up!-- and eventually he will realize that biting gets him nowhere. Do remember to praise him and do things he likes (playing with him, going for a walk outside, etc.) when he is being calm and good, so his good manners will be reinforced. This will help the bad manners to go away. (Attention for good manners, everyone disappears for bad manners).

[emmabeth]

First of all, stop attempting to dominate him - there is no need to do this and its very likely your attempts to do so have actually made things worse.

He does not need to be dominated by any one, your attempts to do so will either be misconstrued as play or if you went far enough, be frightening to him which would destroy his trust in you.

Make sure he has appropriate things to bite and chew, you are right much of this IS his age, he needs to do these things - your job is, rather than trying to dominate him, to show him waht is and is not appropriate. You cannot do this by words or by trying to frighten him, you can ONLY do this by clearly demonstrating that the wrong things will not work and the right things will be rewarded.

Because you have tried a number of things that have left your pup with the wrong messages, ignoring his biting isnt going to work, he knows if he tries hard enough SOMETHING will happen, even if it isnt what he ideally intended.

When you see him getting in the mood to be bitey, before he actually does it, stuff a toy in his mouth and distract him with that, do try as hard as possible NOT to wait for him to get to the stage where he is biting you.

IF you miss your opportunity, then use a time out - be warned though if you do not use them properly and if you attempt to rely on them soley, without the above stuff, they will not work.

A proper time out means you step outside the room and close the door for a count of ten (or you put the pup out, pick whichever is the fastest and least fuss to do, no good if you have to chase him round the room first, that becomes a game!) and you repeat this as often as you need to do so, which at first IS going to be every few seconds!!!

If you leave him longer than the count of ten, if you give up after the first couple of repeats, he WILL learn it is worth trying harder because eventually biting will lead to fun and attention so you really do have be totally consistent with it.

Can you give us an idea of his typical day, including walks, training, games, feeding and if he is left alone (and for how long if he is). The more details you can give us the better we can help you.

[mm0523]

Everyone I have talked to until now has stated that there must be a leadership role and the dog must understand he is not in control. Which I believe KC (the puppy) believes he is.

His day normally consists of:

Waking up- breakfast- playing in the apartment- I leave him to go to class- come back and feed him lunch- taking him outside to walk/play- back to the apartment- naps most of the time- dinner and play- then bedtime

[Fundog]

Everyone I have talked to until now has stated that there must be a leadership role and the dog must understand he is not in control. Which I believe KC (the puppy) believes he is.

His day normally consists of:

Waking up- breakfast- playing in the apartment- I leave him to go to class- come back and feed him lunch- taking him outside to walk/play- back to the apartment- naps most of the time- dinner and play- then bedtime

Yes, there must be a "leadership role" from us, as our dogs' protectors and caregivers. What the dog needs to understand most in terms of "being in control" is that he can depend upon you to take care of him, protect him, keep him safe, and meet all of his needs. He does not need to worry, fear, resource guard, or defend himself, because he can trust you to do all of that for him. Right now, yes, you are correct in that KC is in "control" of how he gets attention from you-- but it is not in a way that makes either of you happy. It is up to you to teach him a better, more polite way of getting attention from you. And even then, yes, he will still be in "control" of how and when he gets attention, but you will be happy to give it to him then, because he will be using good manners. -- And you will be the one to get the credit for teaching him such wonderful self control. Does that make sense?

[mm0523]

I will give it a try. Thanks for the help.

[GundogGuy]

I use/teach the "yowch" method. I've seen Victoria do this and also Ian Dunbar (amongst others). If the puppy nips at you during any interaction simply (in the highest pitch voice, not necessarily the loudest) yell "yowch" and stop the interaction (or time out as suggested) for 10 seconds or so... This gets the message across pretty quickly that teeth on humans means the world gets boring...

[GundogGuy]

On another note, we cannot seem to get him to listen for the life of us. He will sit, shake, lay down, sometimes stay, sometimes not.
Any advice? Please help!

I'd say if he's sitting, shaking and lying down on cue and has a basic (if shaky) stay at 4 months then he's doing pretty well... What do you expect from him?

[mm0523]

Isn't this a place to get positive feedback?

No need to be rude, I was just seeking advice like everyone else here.

[nightsrainfall]

No one here is generally trying to be rude. There are a few more blunt personalities, and like most internet forurms the lack of tone, body langauge, and facial expression can lead to a lot of misunderstandings. Also we have a large variety of backgrounds on the boards, so there's a good number of different writing and communication styles here.

I usually reread things and imagine a friend offering the advice or stating the question, if I'm thinking it sounds 'off' to me. I have some pretty blunt friends though, but the intent is still usually to enlighten and assist.

[emmabeth]

Ok, why isnt he listening to you..

First, what are you expecting from him - be honest, we can't really help if you aren't. 4 months old is not very old at all so it may not be that you are doing anything wrong, just that he is too young.

Can you give us a really detailed run through of what you are asking from him, how you are asking, what his motivation is to comply and currently why is what he is doing not enough?

So.... what breed is he/breed mix?

What rewards are you using for training sessions?

How long is each session?

How have you taught him what each command/cue means?

[Blappy1215]

try the Ouch method, My puppy Cooper is only 14 weeks old and his very nippy when he gets excited. When he nips me anywhere I say ouch in a loud voice and stop playing with him and turn my back to him for a few minutes, then resume what ever it was we were doing or I will give him a suitable chew toy to play with. Cooper is getting better with the nipping he is only a baby so you will have slip ups but they do get it just requires a lot of patience. Good luck with your puppy.

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