Hi from me and my naughty collies!

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carriemb
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:13 am

Hi from me and my naughty collies!

Post by carriemb »

Hi,

I'm new here, please be gentle!

I'm Carrie and I have 2 border Collies, Ben and Max. They are littermates and will be 3 in May. I have a few problems with them, nothing I can't live with but if I could find ways to sort them out I think it would improve their lives and mine.

I don't know if this is the right place to go into all this detail but I guess it is an introdution to me and my dogs, it may be a very long one!

I got the dogs with my ex-husband from a family who said their small collie had an accidental 'meeting' with a local farmer's working collie. Something didn't feel quite right about the people or the way they were looking after the puppies. Ben and Max were the only 2 left and I know puppies can be very excitable but they seemed beside themselves to have some attention from us and there was no way I could leave them there. I don't know what I thought the problem was but my instinct said they would be better out of there. Also the people were happy to take a lot less money than they had advertised the dogs for. They were being fed on very cheap tinned adult dog food and weetabix and milk for breakfast. I took them to the vets the next day and they were both covered in fleas and had worms, Ben's were very bad and he was quite underweight. I took some time off work to settle them in and booked them into a puppy training class which would start a month or so later.

The dogs were very excited to be socialising with others. Ben would not stop barking in the classes. Max was much more responsive to the training than Ben. AFter 6 weeks we signed up to the next stage of the training class with the trainers reassurance that as long as we continued the training outside of the class the dogs would eventually calm down. Ben's excitement in the classes seemed to distress Max and he became less responsive during the classes and we found ourselves having to sit apart from everyone else in the room. The time came to sign up for the next stage and we gave our concerns to the trainer that we just seemed to be upsetting the dogs by bringing them and we didn't see how that could be constructive. He then told us that we shouldn't have taken both puppies to the same class as it's easier to train them separately, that was after 12 weeks of stressful training and taking £250 from us, surely he should have told us that before we started?

Anyway, we didn't go back and the dogs weren't really socialising with other dogs anymore as in the park they played with a ball and weren't interested in anything else. At the time we lived with my parents and quite a few people visited the house so the dogs did meet new people, but that tailed off.

At 6 months the dogs were castrated on the advice of the vet. Ben was humping and becoming a little aggressive with it so the vet said it may be best to castrate before the humping became a habit. I know there are lots of opinions on when to do this but I chose to go with the vet as they know way more than I do!

When they were 8 months old my ex-husband and I moved to a house of our own and as we dont really have people round the only people Ben and Max were seeing were the same people they had always known. We had a neighbour who liked dogs and one day as I was walking them from the car to the house Max jumped up and nipped the neighbours arm. It was bruised but luckily for me the neighbour thought it was his fault because he got too close too fast. Similar things happened a couple more times but only when Max was on his lead. Ben has never done this, his problem was barking. From the minute we saw him he was a barker! Not a manly dog bark but an attention seeking yap, it hurt our ears! We were at the end of our tether and tried a D.A.P. collar. Amazingly it worked. He really calmed down. We were able to get a lot more training done like this, but it was his 'teenage' time and progression in training was like hitting my head against a brick wall so I just tried to reinforce what he already knew. I visited a new trainer at this time who had lots ofher own collies and really knew how to help me. Ben and Max are/were quite nervous and Ben would never come very close for a cuddle and hated being brushed. They didn't really respond to their own names as I always called both together so I think they both thought they were called benandmaxcome! The trainer hepled me with that and following her advice Ben started to get closer and is now so affectionate. It was a real breakthrough. I have seen her several times since and she always offers me good advice but a lot of what I need to do is ongoing and the dogs are calming down so much as they get older that I don't really know how much I need to reinforce and how much is down to them being young and excitable.

Off lead the dogs have mostly been very well behaved but had issues when it was time to go back on their leads and if Ben saw another dog running fast he just couldn't focus on anything but chasing it and when he did that Max would join him like they were trying to gang up on the other dog but when they got to it they had no interest and would come running back to me. I soon realised that the only way I could keep any of Ben's attention was to make sure he had a ball to play with. I probably shot myself in the foot by taking the easy option instead of really cracking on with the training which I have to admit I was never consistent with. Taking on 2 puppies was never going to make that easy, but even if I had known that I still wouldnt have left them at the place they came from.

On lead they pulled hard and I found it difficult to walk them on my own. I hadn't separated them much from the start and as they got older it got harder. We lived in a terraced house and if I left one of them the other would cry and howl and I was worried it would upset the neighbours. I was around all day as I worked evenings at the time. Ben and Max did settle when I went out, that was never a problem it was just leaving one in the house alone that was difficult. I should have stuck with it but I didn't. I know there is plenty I have done wrong! The point is that they were never apart so it was very hard to do any lead training with them but the place I walked them didn't need to have them on there leads except for a couple of minutes just getting back to the car so walking on lead wasn't a regular part of the day.

I did some clicker training with them a few times a day, not really anything new but trying to keep them stimulated. They seemed to be happy dogs and even though I knew I should probably be doing something more with them but I didn't as they seemed quite content and I had learned to live with them the way they were. I was careful with Max when he was on his lead and that was the only major problem.

My dad offered to pay for more training classes and I took Max because I knew how over-excited ben had got in the puppe class. I didn't really like the idea of classes and was more than happy with my other trainer but she was quite far from me and this one was much closer. Max was fine to start with, part of the aim for me was to get him mixing with other dogs a bit more but the class couldn't have kept them any more separate if they'd tried. Max ended up hiding under my chair and growling at anyone who walked past. Classes clearly don't agree with my 2.

Later that year I split up with my husband. We lived in the same house for 3 months while we sorted everything out. He couldn't have taken the dogs with him because of his work and he probably wouldnt have wanted to. I did want to keep them but there was no way my part time wages would have been enough to pay rent, bills and keep 2 hungry dogs! My parents said they'd help me out temporarily but didn't want both dogs in the house long term. I had to think about rehoming them but it broke my heart even though I wanted what was best for them. I heard that someone I worked with was looking for a dog for his young family and Ben fitted the bill. I thought it was a good solution as I knew where he was going and could keep in touch and also I might just be able to keep one dog which had to be better than losing both of them. Ben went to his new home and it was hard for me but it sounded like he was happy and there were kids around who played with him all the time.

Max didn't exactly seem upset at having me to himself! He did get a little more grouchy when he was on his lead. I think he may have got a bit protective of me and lunged at any person or dog who walked past us. It became quite hard to deal with and the only time it didnt happen is when he was off his lead. He became a really lovely dog on his own (not that he wasn't before!) and we played a lot more and he loved the attention.

While all this was going on I met someone new (quick I know but sometimes these things creep up on you!) and we decided that it made sense to move in together so we did just over a year ago. He is a dog lover and got on well with Max.

In February last year I was talking to the person who took Ben. I tried not to ask too much about him I just liked the comfort of knowing where he was and who he was with. I found out they were having trouble with Ben because their neighbour had complained to the council about his barking several times and the council had started to threaten the family with fines. They were also having problems getting Ben on his lead and he kept taking his ball to other people at the end of a walk so he could carry on playing. Over a couple of weeks we talked quite a lot about it and I offered to take Ben back. He said yes straight away and a week later I picked Ben up and took him for a long run on his own. It was so great to see him again and he came straight back to me at the end of the walk. When I took him home to meet Max they were so pleased to see each other. A bit wary at first but then their tails started wagging and they were playing. Max was acting like Ben's big brother and wanted to be near him but Ben was a bit quiet for a couple of days. AFter that it was like he'd never gone but he was the new and improved Ben! The 4 months away must have done him some good. He was much more responsive and confident.

We've had a couple of weeks away with the dogs and they've been the best holidays I have ever had!

My main problem now is Max's aggression on his lead or when a stranger comes to the house. I don't really know how to deal with that. I rarely walk him on a lead so it's hard to get a routine with training but sometimes I can't avoid him having to be on a lead and in that situation I don't want to have him muzzled but I always do just in case.

I bought a high visibility jacket for Ben and wrote all over it 'please ignore me, do not throw or kick my ball' beacause at the park he got very cheeky and would run to people for them to play with him and because he's so cute they always would, then he'd conveniently forget to come back to me! The jacket worked so well as I could never beat him to the other people to ask them not to throw his ball and now he's great! He might start to run towards someone but you can almost see him thinking about it and he comes straight back to me which is such an improvement.

They are both quite good now at coming back to me at the end of the walk although Ben is funny and runs around us in circles while I put Max's lead on the he stops for his to be put on!

SO, that's me and my boys! Sorry it's such a long intro, I thought it best to give the whols story because I would love to hear ideas on how I can help Max to stop being so nervous and nippy but that's for another topic.

Thanks for reading!
Ari_RR
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:07 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Hi from me and my naughty collies!

Post by Ari_RR »

Wow, what an interesting story!
I am sure you will get some good suggestions. You may get wider audience responding if you post this in "Training Advice" section.
Writing instructions on the high visibility vest was a brilliant idea, I think..
Anyway, welcome to the forum, Carrie!
bendog
Posts: 2188
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:42 am

Re: Hi from me and my naughty collies!

Post by bendog »

It's funny, my cousin has two collie crosses and they sound almost exactly like your two, except they are only a year old.

Getting two pups together is nearly always a bad idea, but you weren't to know that then, although with the seperation from each other issues etc it seems you have found out!

Welcome, and please make a post in the Training advice section when you feel ready and people will be happy to help.
dontpugme
Posts: 1294
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:01 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Hi from me and my naughty collies!

Post by dontpugme »

Hi and welcome to the forum! :D
--dontpugme
wvvdiup1
Posts: 3397
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:31 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Hi from me and my naughty collies!

Post by wvvdiup1 »

Hi and welcome to the forum! :D
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"Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius." -author unknown
CoolDog
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:21 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Hi from me and my naughty collies!

Post by CoolDog »

Hi and welcome aboard, Carrie! :D
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