How and When to speak out

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NachosMoma
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How and When to speak out

Post by NachosMoma » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:15 am

I had a very upsetting experience yesterday at the Park. I saw a "trainer" using a choke chain on a tiny whippet. The little whippet was being "trained" to stay in one place and she got up to greet my dog. The "trainer" said, "sophie, PLACE" and sophie sat where she was. The "trainer" said, "that's not your place" and proceed to take the dog over to a small dog bed. She then gave the dog 3 jerks on the choke chain and the dog cried out with each one. I was so stunned I'm sure my face spoke, but my mouth didn't.

My question is, what should I have done or said? I can't stop thinking about this incident. I want to be prepared next time.

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Mattie
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by Mattie » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:50 am

You really need to be as gobby as I am with situations like this, I have to admit I can let rip at times, far more than I do on here :lol: but do try to reason with them first, if the are blind to the suffering of the dog I will let rip and have been known to report them to the RSPCA in the past if I knew who they were and where they lived.

You do have to put your own and your dogs safety first, growing up in a rough area taught me how to look after myself.
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Christie
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by Christie » Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:00 am

NachosMoma wrote:I had a very upsetting experience yesterday at the Park. I saw a "trainer" using a choke chain on a tiny whippet. The little whippet was being "trained" to stay in one place and she got up to greet my dog. The "trainer" said, "sophie, PLACE" and sophie sat where she was. The "trainer" said, "that's not your place" and proceed to take the dog over to a small dog bed. She then gave the dog 3 jerks on the choke chain and the dog cried out with each one. I was so stunned I'm sure my face spoke, but my mouth didn't.

My question is, what should I have done or said? I can't stop thinking about this incident. I want to be prepared next time.
That should of been filmed on your cell phone that way you could send the video clip in to the police department.
I don't like those chock collars because 15 years ago I nearly killed my cocker spaniel Toby when he was in Basics at Pet Smart I was so nieve in that area they used those chock collars and prong collars at that time that was before I heard of some of those other training collars he had that same issue like my Basset Hound Dutchie and my Pomeranian Betsy are also pullers but I won't use a chock collar or a prong collar on Betsy because of her size :( :shock: :x

wishing_away19
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by wishing_away19 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:07 am

Thats horrible!, but I also don't believe that choke collars are always bad. They are a training device, that some trainers use. They can ve very damaging to your dog if you use them incorrectly. I've used a choke collar on all of our dogs, but I didn't train our dogs to walk nicely with them. I used the 'tree method'. The choke collars are easy to get on a dog and off a dog, and that's the only reason why I use them. All I have to do is slip it on and I find that our dogs like how they have something loose on their neck. I also use them because they easily slip out of other collars. Sure there are other collars, that can do the same thing. Like the martingale. I think that if someone is going to use a choke collar, than they should learn how the right way. If used the wrong way, they can be very damaging to the dogs wind pipe.

If I were you I would say something next time you witness a dog being 'abused'. I have a big mouth though, so that might be why. :) I would have been like.."Um..do you hear the dog whimpering!?"

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Mattie
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by Mattie » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:36 am

Christie wrote: I don't like those chock collars because 15 years ago I nearly killed my cocker spaniel Toby when he was in Basics at Pet Smart I was so nieve in that area they used those chock collars and prong collars at that time that was before I heard of some of those other training collars he had that same issue like my Basset Hound Dutchie and my Pomeranian Betsy are also pullers but I won't use a chock collar or a prong collar on Betsy because of her size :( :shock: :x
Does that mean you would use these collars on dogs of a different size?
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Christie
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by Christie » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:25 am

I stop using those years ago. even though I do have a couple of those choking collars that a friend gave me they are in the toy box anything I use to train my dogs stays on top of their crate to make it more accessible to get to including their treats
with the exception of their 4 clickers that are hanging up next to the French doors in the living room everything with the exception toy bowling pens are in the living room a friend of mine who use to teach basics and agility suggested the bowling pens to teach Betsy weave since my father doesn't want agility equipment in my back yard I wish I knew how to send you photos from my Cellphone so you understand what I am talking about since I don't have a regular camera. :(

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Mattie
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by Mattie » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:42 am

I didn't think you used them Christie but from your post it looked like you may depending on the size of the dog, best way to make it clear to others was to ask the question.

Most if not all of us have used methods we now regret, we have all learnt from our mistakes and moved on and it is our dogs that are benefitting as well as us, I don't react now like I used to, I am a lot calmer person but that could be old age. :lol:
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Noobs
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by Noobs » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:47 am

wishing_away19 wrote:Thats horrible!, but I also don't believe that choke collars are always bad. They are a training device, that some trainers use.
Choke collars do just that, used correctly or not.

The training philosophy of this forum is that you train your dog by showing him what you want, not "correcting" him (with a choke collar) for doing things wrong. Even in the "right" hands this can be abusive. This is the difference between trainers like Victoria and other "traditional" "old school" "crank and yank" trainers.

If you are teaching a child how to play piano, he will enjoy lessons more if you set him up for success and go at his pace, not if you hold a ruler over his fingers and wait for him to make a mistake so you can give him a whack. Same can be said for dogs.

I used a prong on my dog. I used it correctly, timed my corrections right. I had a miserable dog who still went on walks because he liked being outside, but walked with head and tail down and stayed by my side (that's good right? if so then I don't want that) and had no fun. Never again.

wishing_away19
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by wishing_away19 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:04 am

Noobs wrote:
wishing_away19 wrote:Thats horrible!, but I also don't believe that choke collars are always bad. They are a training device, that some trainers use.
Choke collars do just that, used correctly or not.

The training philosophy of this forum is that you train your dog by showing him what you want, not "correcting" him (with a choke collar) for doing things wrong. Even in the "right" hands this can be abusive. This is the difference between trainers like Victoria and other "traditional" "old school" "crank and yank" trainers.

If you are teaching a child how to play piano, he will enjoy lessons more if you set him up for success and go at his pace, not if you hold a ruler over his fingers and wait for him to make a mistake so you can give him a whack. Same can be said for dogs.

I used a prong on my dog. I used it correctly, timed my corrections right. I had a miserable dog who still went on walks because he liked being outside, but walked with head and tail down and stayed by my side (that's good right? if so then I don't want that) and had no fun. Never again.
I don't use the choke collar to correct them. I did in the past, and I'll never do it again. I was saying that since I have a choke collar at home, I some times will use it for walks because they don't pull anymore. When I taught them not to pull they were actually in a harness, and I used the 'tree' method. A local trainer uses them for dogs that are afraid of things being put around their neck, because they are easy to get on. She is using them as a training device, but not to 'choke' the dog. Thats what I meant.

dontpugme
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by dontpugme » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:29 pm

Just adding to what Mattie said.... I used to use a choke chain with max and my dad would use the prong collar. I remember i was outside with max on his choke chain and there were these girls playing basketball across the street. I heard one of them say, "Look, she's choking her dog." After that incident, I "lost" the choke chain and prong collar somewhere in the laundry room. I don't remember where i put them, but that's probably a good thing.
--dontpugme

Christie
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Re: How and When to speak out

Post by Christie » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:30 am

Well I haven't used neither for years or your infomation.

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