Early planning of possible second dog

Breed specific discussion of your favorite breed.

Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost

Post Reply
Lotsaquestions
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Lotsaquestions » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:11 pm

Hey all,

We have considered adding a second dog to our home when our current dog is mature and stable (so not for a long while!). While we love current dog, we weren't overly responsible in getting him. Yes we saw the parents, we're still in contact with the 'breeders' who are lovely and have now neutered his dad to avoid future accidents, but he was backyard bred, has a possible genetic tendancy to be possessive (showed up at 10 weeks old), and isn't all that confident. SO this time around we want to do it right.

I've researched lots of breeds, and have narrowed it down to a few. If anyone has any words of wisdom of the following breeds please share, for good or ill, I want to make the best possible decision.

- Finnish Lapphund
- Japanese Spitz
- Whippet
- Silken Windhound
- Toller

Now I'll just share our circumstances briefly and what we're looking for and why, incase we've missed out any breeds!

- Youngish couple who may possibly have children in the distant future
- Good sized garden, not that wide but long. Average (I think) terraced house.
- Very active in dog training and want to continue dog sports (both for fun).
- Work from home
- Able to give dogs up to 3 hours off lead a day if necessary, more if we visit somewhere nice.
- After a small-medium sized dog that is robust enough to go on long walks but won't demand them. Smart enough to get the most out of activites but not neurotic. Affectionate but not a clingy lap dog. Confident and friendly. I don't mind cheekiness, a mind of their own, being a bit barky, or a prey drive, though I won't say no to a wet nosed people pleaser either. Have experience with Lurchers, Spitzs and Terriers, but would prefer to avoid Terriers. The healthier the breed the better, and looks / grooming needs don't bother us!
- Current dog will likely be around 10-11kg fully grown and does better with dogs his size or bigger, and if he's anything like his parents once mature he'll be very, very playful.

Thanks and I hope you guys can help us plan properly for the future!

User avatar
JudyN
Posts: 6681
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Contact:

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by JudyN » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:35 pm

Bear in mind that all dogs are individuals and you can choose a pup with the most laid-back parents and find that he's got the devil in him - but of course choosing carefully will optimise your chances of getting a little angel.

Are there many silken windhound breeders in the UK? Looking at photos of them I'd want at least to research the constitution of the sloping rump that several seem to have - there might be more info on that relating to borzois, which silkens were bred from. I don't know the history of either breed but I'd want to make sure the rear end wasn't on the same slippery slope (pun intended) we see in GSDs.

The whippets I've met are lurchery in nature, but generally more twitchy - I get the impression they're pretty sensitive and startle easily, so would need to be introduced to the big wide world & socialised very carefully. They also have the typical sighthound 'What's in it for me?' attitude to training, which is fine as long as you don't expect them to think that doing 'sit, stay, stand, down' for five minutes is a great idea.

I'm completely biased towards the sighthounds and don't know any of the other breeds... so I'm not much help really :lol:
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Lotsaquestions » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:07 pm

Hm, not even noticed the slopey rump on the Silkens, will definately take a closer look. There aren't many breeders, so if we did go the Silken route we will be in with a long wait. The reason we considered those was because they are supposedly Whippety in personality but a bit more trainable. At least, that is what I've read. I've also read that they were crossed with Shelties at one point and carry the gene, but that this is also vehemently denied by Silken breeders. :lol: Of course like you said individual dog personalities you cannot predict! Merlin's sister, for example, is a cuddlebug whereas cuddling is like nails on a chalkboard to Merlin. I see choosing a breed as having a list of unchecked boxes with breed traits, and as the pup grows up they will tick a good chunk of them and sometimes scribble the odd new one down.

I can cope with a sensitive dog, but I didn't know Whippets also startle easy. The ones I have known have been either bonkers or calm, depending on when the mood takes them (which could be whenever they decide!). Because Merlin startles fairly easy, I would think having two may not be the best pairing in the world.

User avatar
Erica
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Erica » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:36 pm

I'm following the growth of a few silkens that my friends own. They seem like lovely stable dogs, but they were from fantastic breeders so that definitely has something to do with it. Multiple are service dog prospects and are showing promise in that field.

If you're interested in the structure of sighthounds, this website is very interesting -- lots of data gathered in terms of what makes a dog fast. In the url, you can change the number. speed1.htm is an overview of anatomy terms and how the data was gathered. speed3.htm has pictures and videos of how different structures contribute to the speed of the dog.

Personally, as some silkens have been found to have MDR1 gene mutations, I believe there is sheltie in their bloodlines. I'd look for a breeder who tested for MDR1 or test my own dog.

Tollers are generally highly inbred, so personally I would avoid the breed.

I don't know much about the others, though I believe silkens are said to have a steadier temperament than whippets. Given a choice between a good whippet breeder and a mediocre silken breeder, I'd go for the good whippet breeder though.

I'll also give a shoutout to poodles. A small standard poodle, or a "moyen" sized poodle, might be a good fit. I'm biased towards the breed though ;) They are cuddly and it's good to plan ahead and work when they're young to make sure they don't get overly clingy/anxious when left alone, but again, a good breeder and training as a puppy should help avoid any of that.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

User avatar
JudyN
Posts: 6681
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Contact:

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by JudyN » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:07 pm

That's an interesting website Erica, thanks. There's a website here with more info on the Borzoi topline: http://judgesl.com/Borzoi/topline.html
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Lotsaquestions » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:12 pm

Oh wow, I wasn't expecting someone to have first hand experience with Silkens. Also I did not know that about Tollers, that's a shame. I'll cross those off.

What are the good breeders of Silkens? I've heard of Endeavor but that is about it. Also is the sloped back that Judy mentioned a problem healthwise in the breed? A steadier and more trainable Whippet ticks pretty much all of my boxes.

Unfortunately for Poodles my partner was bitten by one as a child so he isn't keen on them. I do think they're lovely dogs myself, but I had to rule them out :(

User avatar
JudyN
Posts: 6681
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:20 pm
Location: Dorset, UK
Contact:

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by JudyN » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:58 am

Erica's in the US, so won't be familiar with the breeders in the UK - and silkens in the UK could differ in some ways to those in the US.

There's a silken windhound club in the UK: https://www.uksilkenwindhoundclub.org/home It could be worth you contacting them, finding out more about what breeders there are, and even talking to the individual breeders about their dogs, and the breed in general. A good breeder will be happy to share the good and the bad about the breed, because the last thing they want is for one of their pups to go to a home where it doesn't work out. A good breeder may well also have a waiting list for pups and will be picky about who their pups go to, so starting your search early would stand you in good stead.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Lotsaquestions » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:45 am

Ah, I know they're more common over in the states. I'll try and get in contact with someone at the club to get more info on the breed, and hopefully even meeting one in person. It would mean buying a new back garden gate, 5 ft is nothing to a springy Sighthound. My old whippetx Lurcher taught me anything under 6ft is easy, and 6ft is doable with a scramble. :lol:

Another breed I had discounted but am reconsidering is a Sheltie. I had discounted them initially because I'd heard they can be snappy and overly timid, but I've since met one at training who is anything but. I also know their herding instincts can be put to use in Trieball so I'm not worried about their herding drive having nowhere to go. If anyone has experience with Shelties I would love to hear your thoughts on them.

User avatar
Erica
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Erica » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:07 am

We've had two very different shelties in our classes recently. One is a firecracker, smart as a whip and confident. The other is soft and sweet, still very smart but not as confident. I believe she was a recent rescue and she grew more sure of herself through the class.

They can be barky, so if that bothers you I'd reconsider. They also like to chase things that move quickly, so if you'll have them around children, it will be important to work on self-control around fast-moving things. Even with an outlet for herding, they'll want to try to herd kids or even adults. From a good breeder and with good socialization, they can certainly be fantastic dogs!
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Lotsaquestions » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:22 am

Current dog is barky and has a high drive to chase things. If we moved too fast we had our ankles bitten and he really did not like when we changed direction, he would run after us and get really worked up. No idea if that is what Shelties are like too, but we've practised ALOT of self control for him to not nip fast moving people. On the flip side, running off in the opposite direction is a sure fire way to get him to recall away from ANYTHING, so it had its plus points. IF that is what Shelties are like, we have alot of experience already. If they're worse, then perhaps not :lol:

User avatar
Erica
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Erica » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:55 pm

It does sound like you have practice working with the kind of behavior shelties sometimes have! :lol: I would probably avoid herding line shelties (if people still breed them for herding specifically), but otherwise if you don't mind repeating the training, it will at least be a familiar path. :)
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: Early planning of possible second dog

Post by Lotsaquestions » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:16 am

After talking with owners, we've narrowed down our list (and added a new one!).

- Finnish Lapphund
- Keeshond
- Shetland Sheepdog

We're leaning more towards a Keeshond, mainly because I'm thinking that perhaps having two very clever, highly strung chase obsessed dogs might end badly! If anyone knows the breed and can give some insights that would be great. I've heard they're calm, friendly, clever but stubborn, and are a bit 'velcro'. We've decided on another double coated breed mainly so weather will affect them both in the same way, so we won't have a reluctant sighthound refusing the cold and rain while Merlin is chomping at the bit to get out, or Merlin exhausted by the heat and another dog going at 100 miles an hour!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest