Giant breeds?

Breed specific discussion of your favorite breed.

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Lara575

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Lara575 »

ScarletSci- thank you for your reply my neighbour is here with me now. I'm going to with her help write a long post once I have discussed what she does and doesn't want and if you could all help her in picking the right breed for her.
Lara575

Re: Scarletsci and Nettle need breed advice?

Post by Lara575 »

OK after talking with my neighbour,

She stays at home as she does not work , she will be the main career for the dog with her being at home all day. She has NO experience with or around dogs and is not like me were iv read about body language she more a practical person than someone who learns from a book so everything to do with dogs she would be learning from her first dog. She plans on going to training class's and starting training from 8 weeks old. She will be training positively.She is a healthy strong woman

Regarding her likes and dislikes, she dislikes drooling , dislikes vocal dogs ( in other words dogs who are more prone to bark excessively). She wants a sociable dog is not keen on independence nature's for her first dog.

Physical Exercise , there is no limit but most of the exercise would be long leash walks but to help you help her she has said about 2hrs and up a day but like I said exercise is not limited.

Mental exercise, would in the form of training, puzzle toys , brain games ect.

A few breed groups are off like hounds she likes a lot of the sighthounds but thinks they would be more suited once she has experience because of the independent nature she won't know how to get them interested in listing to her. All small dogs as she just is not a small dog person. Terriers that are large like airdale she feels are to challenging for a newbie. And lastly giant dogs as much as she loves them she feels that they are to big for her first dog and would rather wait until she is more experienced. Also it will be a puppy as she's not comfortable with rescue for her first dog.

If there is anything you would like to ask her than please ask away. The main thing she keeps saying is that she really just wants you to remember that she knows nothing about dogs and she will be learning behaviour and body language from her first dog. Size wise any thing from a springer upto a Labrador.

Any recommendations?
ScarletSci
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by ScarletSci »

A Golden Retriever sounds like an ideal first dog for her. A lot of grooming commitment, but fantastic all round first dogs, and still a large dog, without being a giant. They are listed as most popular first dogs for good reason :D
Lara575

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Lara575 »

Thanks Scarletsci.

I was thinking Golden as it's the breed I'm getting as my first dog as I was originally getting a GSD but then with Nettles and Erica's help realsied there not right for my first dog and was better waiting. I shall tell her.

If anyone does have any other recommendations please keep them coming :D
master2

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by master2 »

Hi

I'd agree with Scarletsci on the Goldie. But I still disagree with everyone else on the whole giant dogs aren't first dogs. What about ARI his first dog was a rhodesian ridgeback, a large powerful, strong, independent minded breed. ARI is proof that some people have what it takes to succeed with a large powerful breed. Plus I remember a while back when someone was asking for a advice on a giant schnauzer everyone on here said go for it if that's what you truly want. GS are big powerful dogs again! And RR and bullmastiff have all been advised as OK for a newbie.
JudyN
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Re: Giant breeds?

Post by JudyN »

master2 wrote:What about ARI his first dog was a rhodesian ridgeback, a large powerful, strong, independent minded breed. ARI is proof that some people have what it takes to succeed with a large powerful breed.
Yes, but Ari has also attacked other dogs, causing serious injuries, and can very rarely be let off lead. Ari_RR also has to use brute strength on occasion to restrain him, which may well be beyond an average female, even if fit. That's not to say Ari_RR isn't an excellent owner, because he is, and it's not to say it would be different if Ari was his 5th dog. The fact remains that if something goes wrong with a large dog, even just bowling over a child through puppy exuberance, it can go very wrong, and a first-time owner, like someone who has just passed their driving test, won't have developed the instinct to prevent problems arising in situations others won't even have recognised as problematic. It's like driving an HGV as your first car.

Of course it can work out. Not recommending giant breeds for first-time owners isn't saying that they shouldn't get one, just that there are additional risks that need to be recognised, and more that can go wrong. If your friend still thinks that size isn't an issue because the dog will be well trained, I'm not sure that she understands what adolescent puppies are like. And I dare say Nettle has dealt with many cases of first-time owners with giant breeds where it has gone wrong :wink:
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Newsomefamily

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Newsomefamily »

On the subject of first time dogs in my opinion there are some that probably don't make great dogs for newbies but I don't think size alone makes a dog not a first dog. As iv know people who have had Rottweiler and great Danes as there first dogs.

One of the sweetest rotties I know is owned by a first time owner who researched and researched and researched all that she could on the rotties , met loads at shows, in breeders homes ect. and then searched and searched for a really good breeder who she is still in touch with now her breeder is always there to help with anything. So have a good breeder who you can have a good strong relationship with is a big help. Then she worked with a positively trainer from day one and she has never had a problem as she has had support group in the form of her breeder , trainer and other experienced rottie owners.

So I think size in not what makes a first dog work it's the owner, how committed the owner is to the choosen breed and the support they have in the first year or two.
Newsomefamily

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Newsomefamily »

JudyN - just read your last post, obviously I'm still very new to this but as far as I know if Ari is attacking other dogs then either he's not been neutered or he's not been socialised enough ect. As dogs don't attack for no reason. The person I know who owns the rottie has never attacked any dog as he is neutered, VERY socialised and well trained.

And what I really don't get is your all saying about that a giant breed can go terrible wrong when and if it goes wrong yet the advice to Lara's neighbour is get a Golden yet I have seen people get pulled over were they land on the floor because the Goldie was so strong and a Goldie can go terribly wrong too. I seen first hand what goldies can do when the owner has not got a clue as Elsa who loves dogs was attacked by ond. She was minding her own business when the golden ran over to her and grabbed her leg and shook it like a toy. She was at college just sitting on a bench when it happened.

If you think she can't handle a giant breed then no I don't think it's wise to recommend another large breed that can be quiet boisterous in adolescent.
Lara575

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Lara575 »

Very interesting points to consider.

Forgetting about my neighbour for a min. I was thinking of what JudyN was saying

"
The fact remains that if something goes wrong with a large dog, even just bowling over a child through puppy exuberance, it can go very wrong"

Yes but a small dog can still cause damage or even trip a child up if the child did not see the puppy. It might not cause as much damage but that does not mean small dogs are any easier.

I'm also surprised by everyone response really about large breeds when you were all telling me to get a GSD if that's what I want as my first dog? Why if you all feel that a large breed is more of a handful and to strong for most people? Did I get different advice because I knew my breed and was committed?
Theo400

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Theo400 »

I think large dogs are easier than small to be honest as your more likely going to not treat a big dog like a toy like so many small dogs get treated.

Large breeds aren't as bad as some of you are making out. There is NO such thing as a first dog just first owner and life is to short you should get what breed you love the breed you would commit all you engery into training and socialisation.
JudyN
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Re: Giant breeds?

Post by JudyN »

Part of the issue may be that I don't think of GSDs and GRs as particularly large, not in the context of 'giant breeds'. A great dane is easily twice the weight of a GSD or GR so in very simplistic terms the difference between being bowled over by a great dane and a GSD/GR is like the difference between being hit by a car going at 60mph or 30mph. And an average person can probably hang on to a GSD/GR if it's kicking off, or keep their footing if it jumps up, but it may be impossible with a dog twice the weight. So sure, smaller dogs can also pose risks but the outcomes can be very different.

From my experience, particularly the number of people who mistake Jasper for a deerhound/wolfhound (and even great dane :lol: ), people really don't appreciate the size of these dogs until they meet one. So anyone contemplating getting one should definitely meet several beforehand and ideally have a go at walking them, just so they do really appreciate their size & power.

Newsomefamily, I suggest you read some of Ari_RR's posts - Ari is usually a perfect gentleman, and has matured into a wonderfully well behaved dog, but Ari_RR has put in a lot of work and I'm not sure someone physically weaker would have managed. It's not true that careful socialising guarantees a dog that will be fine with other dogs. But that's a discussion for another thread.

I do agree though that many large breeds can be very mellow and have a good temperament for a first-time owner. They may even jump up less as they don't need to jump up to greet you! And, as Theo says, it's far easier to avoid the pitfalls of training a smaller dog. You're not going to be picking up a wolfhound to shift it off your bed :lol:
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Lara575

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Lara575 »

JudyN - now it makes sense. Giant breeds are not for me anyway I know I would not be happy with a big Newfoundland jumping up on me not just the size but all the slobber to :shock: . This is why I asked on her as I really don't think that my neighbour is a giant person she's to nice but in a good way.

So would you consider a GSD a better dog for a newbie than a giant breed?

Iv walked GSD and can keep in control but anything bigger I think would definitely drag me on walks or of he kicked off.
Ari_RR
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Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Ari_RR »

My 2 cents worth of advise - if a dog can be interested in a ball, it will help a great deal :lol:

Ari is indeed intact. He is not "attacking other dogs" as a matter of routine :lol: but in mostly neutered world here it adds a bit of complexity. And a bit of responsibilities to his owners.

Same, I think, with huge breeds. Size matters. It adds responsibility..... (And grooming, if it's a hairy one)
Last edited by Ari_RR on Tue May 31, 2016 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Erica
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Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Erica »

You can socialize a dog properly and well as a puppy and still end up with a dog-aggressive dog. Genetics do influence behvaior - it's why a retriever likes to retrieve and a collie likes to herd. The raising of a dog does also influence the dog's behavior, but it can't turn a herding dog into a livestock guardian. This article is a good and well-explained read of why it's not all socialization or lack of that determines a dog's response to a situation.

The family I nanny for has had five dogs - two giants, a very large, and two small. They're committed, and do a lot for their dogs. Since their first dog, a giant breed, developed guarding issues, when they got their second, the large Alaskan Malamute, they took him to puppy classes. When he started developing aggression towards other dogs, they neutered him and got private lessons. It did nothing. Ami still hates other dogs, and probably always will. It's not uncommon in malamutes, but many people believe it's "all in how you raise them" and neglect to mention this trait to potential malamute owners.

Their second giant dog, they knew they had to get a start on training early. They didn't take him to puppy class - instead, they got private lessons weekly for about the first four months they had him, going over everything from socialization to leash walking manners to training him for vet examinations. They put a lot of effort into his training. It didn't make him a perfect, manageable dog when he was an adolescent and 200 pounds. He still lunged towards people (to greet them, but I dare you to feel happy about a 200lb dog dragging their owner onto the ground and charging towards you) and pulled on leash a LOT. Consistent training and lucky genetics meant that, on the other side of adolescence, Zeus was a great dog, but during adolescence there was a lot that was difficult to handle.

Their most recent canine family members are two 20-pound Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, a breed known and loved for their friendly nature. They didn't take these two to puppy class, or get private lessons to train them, or take them out daily for socializing - it was more like once or twice a week. But the littles are perfectly friendly, if a bit excitable. They have a genetic advantage over the malamute. The family have all said they'd like to stick with similarly friendly breeds in the future, even though they do now have more time to socialize and train their dogs since one parent has retired.

This is why certain breeds are recommended for first time owners. Even if you're dedicated, a lack of experience or just genetic quirks can give you a very difficult dog to handle. If you are set on a breed that is less genetically predisposed to be friendly, you are more likely to end up with an aggressive dog, whether by genetics or training mistakes or who knows. If you can accept and handle this outcome for the next decade-and-a-half, all the power to you. But it's not a bad idea to start with a dog who, if you mess up the socialization of, may still be as friendly as a perfectly socialized dog of the more tricky breed.

Edit: Agreed with Ari - having a dog who ADORES fetching a ball makes training recall or rewarding outstanding feats of bravery (first intros to tunnels and teeters in agility) very very easy :lol:

Edit2: And neutering is not a cure-all for aggression, nor are a dog's gonads the sole cause of aggressive behavior. In some cases neutering may reduce aggression -- but in some cases, it makes it worse. It's a complicated subject, not black-and-white.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
Lara575

Re: Giant breeds?

Post by Lara575 »

Thank you so much Erica. I always look forward to your advice as you really explain things in detail.

What you said about genetics is exactly why I'm waiting until I'm more experienced for my GSD as I am already aware that GSD can be aggressive to other dogs and people. And I don't feel comfortable enough to own one as my first breed which is why I'm getting a Golden Retriever as my first dog so that even with all the training, socialisation if I still mess up or make a mistake the Goldie is more inclined to still be friendly like the Cavalier.

Thanks so much Erica I think your advice will really open my neighbours eyes.

Are there any other large (Golden Retriever size) dogs who have the friendly genetic you talked about Erica. A list of her likes and dislikes are further up on the post.
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