How do I know?

[Lara575]

Hi everyone

I'm new here and this is my second post ( first was in introduce yourself).

I am hoping to get a puppy in the near future and am very lucky that I can take my new puppy to work with me.

However I'm finding it hard to know if my breed choice is right for me. I love the GSD there my heart breed as one saved me as a girl ( you can read about it in introduce yourself) however I am not sure if there suited to me. I'm very healthy but am not overly active I do Zumba 3x a week and go walking everyday but other than that not very active but I know I have time to be more active and would increase this for a dog. I have never owned a dog before and have very little experience around them. I am willing to go to training class's and ask for help here.

Everything about the GSD I love and have not found a flaw as I have spent time with breeders who did not have puppy's. But I am just so worried if they are to much out of my training depth as a work pal suggested a Labrador but even though I like labs to I'm not sure with them being very mouthy as adults ( Im fine with puppy mouthing as all puppies mouth)

But with the GSD I'm just worried with me reading that labs are more mild mannered and easier for the newbie as labs don't have a few issues you would have to adress with the GSD like GSD are more prone to chasing cars or more herding with them being in the herding group and then there the guarding issues that you have to make sure you or anyone else does not set off guarding reactions from a GSD. Which is why labs are more easier.

This is what I have worried about in case the GSD is to much for me to handle as my first dog as much as I love the GSD I want this to be right and I believe firmliy that you should listen to your head and the heart will follow.

I'm not sure what to do what do you tnink? My work pal also said Labrador because he also said would a GSD be happy to be around so many people as a lab would probably be happier.

At work there are 4 dogs here a Labrador who just loves everyone and loves getting attention from staff and then there is 2 Cocker Spaniels who are always wagging there tails and a bichon who sleep most of the work day.

Look forward to advice

[JudyN]

A lot will depend on the breeder and to what extent they select for a good pet temperament, so make sure you research any potential breeders well. There's a thread about GSDs for first-time owners here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19923&p=141896

I'm not an expert but I'm sure others will advise about how well a GSD is likely to cope in a work environment with other dogs.

[master2]

Hello and welcome to the forum

JudyN is right about finding the right breeder and that goes for all breeds , however there are some traits in the GSD that you won't get in the lab.

I own a GSD ( Sherlock) and an Italian spinion ( Watson also a gundog)

After owning both I can see to some extent of what you read about the guarding for example when the door bell goes Sherlock is barking away and Watson is just sat there he does not bark very often. And even when the person has come in and Sherlock has quietened down he is watching there every move. Were Watson greets them with a wagging tail and allows the to stroke him and the he settles down by me were Sherlock you can see he does not settle down until they have gone.

I also have to be careful were we walk Sherlock if another dog tries to start a fight he won't back down and he can pick fights with dogs he does not like which I'm working on this. Were Watson just loves everydog and he is the most gentlest dog you can own. My friend own a Labrador and we were actually saying last week how much Watson is like her Labrador so everything I have said about Watson can also be said about a Labrador.

I do agree that a lab may be better to take to work I know Sherlock would not be a good fit for work place.

They were both very easy to train and both are willing to please me but in certain ways GSD are just more demanding to live with but I wouldn't change him for the world.

[Lara575]

Hello

Many thanks to you both. Before I say anything or make any decision I want to see what other say as well.

[Nettle]

I would strongly advise against keeping any guarding breed in an environment where people, especially strangers, constantly come and go. This means weighing how much someone wants a particular type of dog against taking that dog to work.

Relatively few breeds could cope in that environment.

[Lara575]

Hi Nettle

1\ Would a Labrador be OK in a work place 3x a week?

2\ Are Labrador really mouthy as adults ( mouthing hands and clothing is what I read) carrying things in their mouths like toys I'm fine with I just read that they mouth your hands as adults like they do in puppyhood.

3\ And do they calm down when they mature as I read that they are happy to lie by your feet for a few hours a day? And all the hyper is only as a puppy ( first 2yrs)

[Erica]

Our GSD would have been absolutely a mess in a workplace environment with other dogs as a puppy and young adult. My dad did take her with him to a few jobs he did, but that was all home environments or places without lots of coming and going, and there were not other dogs at those places. GSDs do seem to have a period of time where they are very insecure. Once she was matured (around 4/5 years) she would have handled it fine, but before then it would have been bad for her stability.

I have a retrieving breed pup - a standard poodle - and while he is much more mouthy than our GSD, he has learned very quickly to grab a toy before greeting people. Mouthing hands etc is definitely something you can work with a dog on if this isn't a behavior you want. The two labs I sometimes take care of are both very sweet, mild-mannered adults. The lab x Rhodesian Ridgeback I sometimes care for is also very mellow now that she's matured. None of the three have very mouthy tendencies.

I wouldn't say labs mature at 2 years old - they will be more mature than a puppy, sure, but they may not be fully adults for another couple years. Think of it like this - around 12-18 months is when your dog is a young teenage human. They're a bit wild, they like to test rules and see if they always apply, they will ignore you sometimes, they scream for no reason, are full of energy, and sometimes they might seem like a total disaster that will never turn out to be anything good.

18 months to 2-3 years is older teenager, still a bit pushy, but settling down a bit. They will be close to their mature size, but there is plenty of mental growing still left to do.

2-3 years to 4ish years is young 20s, where you still might look at your dog once in a while and think "What are you *doing*?" but mostly they have their adult temperament.

4ish years and up will be proper adult dogs.

This does vary with size, but has been my experience with medium/large dogs like labs and GSDs. And even then, dogs will vary from this. An adult lab will behave differently than an adult GSD.

Short answers:
1) If you get a puppy with a good temperament from a good breeder, most likely yes. I would make sure the lab doesn't pester the other dogs - having a crate or pen to put puppy in when it's quiet time will be good. (Keeping chew toys in there would also help set the pup up for success.)
2) While many retriever breeds are mouthy, they can be rather easily trained to carry a toy instead of mouthing hands.
3) If they have had good exercise (physical and mental), most labs will happily settle down for a nap. You might, when the dog is young, have to set them up for it (prevent them from wandering off, give them a settle-down kind of toy to chew on), but building that habit should be possible. I wouldn't count on being as productive at work with a puppy as without.

[Nettle]

All I can add to that super advice is to source your dog from show lab stock not working stock, because they will have less work drive and should be more placid. But all dogs are hectic for the first couple of years!

I thoroughly endorse choosing your breeder very carefully and taking your time to research.

[Lara575]

Hello

Thank you Erica for that very detailed information on the Labrador. And thank you nettle for your reply.

I have been doing so much more research and thinking and am still unsure as when doing my weekly shop this morning I saw a GSD and forgot about the lab for that moment, I love this breed that much I would even leave my job and become a private graphic designer just to have a GSD. But I would only do this if the GSD was right for me.

I would really appreciate it if anyone could give me a detailed information on the GSD on what they are like to live with and how this would differ to living with a Labrador?

I know that this would help me with my desicon a lot.

[Nettle]

If you want a GSD get a GSD - no good you getting a Lab then hating it because it isn't a GSD. Just that if you do get a GSD you won't be doing the best for it by taking it to work, and it won't like doggie daycare either.

It's all a series of options, none of which is perfect only you can decide the best option for you.

[Erica]

If you're a first-time owner getting a GSD, my first advice would be to find a trainer who is good with fearful dogs. As I mentioned, GSDs tend to go through a more pronounced fear period than labs, and making sure you know what you're doing during this period can be vital GSDs are active and do alert by barking when stuff happens. Even if the dog knows the person walking in the door, they will want to run up (while barking) and check them over.

I would also definitely recommend finding some sport or activity - Opal and I ran canicross, but GSDs are down for most sports, if you get an all-clear from your vet for them. Nosework is an option that is more mental work than physical so is great for young and old dogs, and can easily be done at home. Other options include agility, triebball, dock diving, frisbee, tracking, barn hunt, obedience and/or rally-o (a bit of a twist on traditional obedience), tracking, herding, and many more - see what your dog likes and there will be an activity that includes it! Daily mental work is very helpful in achieving a happy GSD.

The most testing period will be that 1-3ish year old area with the "teenager," who will view things they're unfamiliar with as a threat. ("Aah! What is that thing?! It's orange and pointy and it wasn't here yesterday! I must bark and growl at it as loud as I can to keep it away!" It's a traffic cone, pup, it's fine.) A good trainer will help you with ways to show the dog that these things are not threats, and get you through with a minimum of hair-pulling frustration. There's a joke that's only half-joking that getting a herding dog through adolescence requires patience, love, and a few dozen bottles of wine. Once you get through that, though, GSDs are wonderful (IMO). They love their people, are alert and active, and smart.

Compared to a lab, I would say GSDs are more aware of their surroundings (less clumsy, but also paying attention to all noises). A lab may not bark at an owl outside, but a GSD probably will if the owl doesn't normally hoot near your house. GSDs are a bit more dignified where labs are clownish, but both breeds tend to enjoy playing various games.

GSDs do shed a lot and can be prone to skin and digestive tract issues, as well as hip and elbow problems. Do you have any specific questions?

[Lara575]

Hello Erica

Thank you so much for your reply .

I do have a few things to ask, also I do still like labs as well and would still be happy with one but for me its getting a dog that is not out of my reach or skill as a first time owner as everything will be new to me as well as the dog.

1\ in the winter time ( when it's snowy or icy) I normally get public transport like bues and trains as I don't like driving in that weather , would both a GSD and Labrador be OK to travel or would one be happier than the other?

2\ even though all dogs need mental stimulation and a job to do do you think a GSD needs this more than a lab with the GSDs herding heritage?

3\ when you were describing the traffic cone with the GSD would a lab not respond like this if he saw one? And does the GSD respond like this because of his guarding insinct?

4\ lastly who would you say is the more noisy one between the too? I actually love dogs barking but I know my neighbours won't like it .

[Erica]

Apologies! I thought I had responded to these but apparently I misremembered

1\ in the winter time ( when it's snowy or icy) I normally get public transport like bues and trains as I don't like driving in that weather , would both a GSD and Labrador be OK to travel or would one be happier than the other?

That would be a matter of introducing the dog to them as a puppy. Any breed of dog will need to be introduced to these situations with good things - eg treats as you get on, as it starts moving, and every now and then through the ride - just as you would with a car. Otherwise, as long as you keep strangers from messing with your dog, neither breed will be more or less adapted. The adolescent GSD might not enjoy it if it's very crowded, but especially if you do work when they're a puppy (whether it's summer or winter - just get the experience in!), they should take it in stride.

I am unfamiliar with taking dogs on public transport - GSDs are a bit more intimidating and you may have trouble with people feeling threatened by your dog. Hopefully someone who lives somewhere with public transport will be able to expand on this a bit more!

2\ even though all dogs need mental stimulation and a job to do do you think a GSD needs this more than a lab with the GSDs herding heritage?

I do feel GSDs get a bit more wired up and unhappy without mental stimulation, but both do need it on a regular basis - daily is ideal, but the occasional day without it shouldn't be disastrous, eg if you're sick or something.

3\ when you were describing the traffic cone with the GSD would a lab not respond like this if he saw one? And does the GSD respond like this because of his guarding insinct?

A lab may have a fear period as well as an adolescent, but generally they're...somewhat oblivious, honestly, and might not notice it. I don't know if I would say it's related to their guarding instinct; it's definitely an "I fear for my safety" situation, whereas a good guard dog is confident and unafraid. As I've mentioned, young GSDs can be prone to fearfulness.

It can help a TON to work with the dog as a puppy, in a good puppy class, where you introduce them to various objects. Open umbrellas, sideways trash cans, hula hoops on the ground or held in the air...as many objects and flooring types as you can manage. This pdf, along with its sequel "After You Get Your Puppy," is something I will always recommend. It helps explain the socialization process in more detail.

I developed a cue with my dog. For things that are new and strange to him that he seems scared of, I have two choices - I can tell him it's safe to investigate with "check it out!" or I can tell him not to investigate and to keep walking past it with our "leave it" cue. "Check it out" is something I only use for stationary, safe objects, like a mound of snow, or a funny stick, etc. "Leave it" is for when I don't know what he's sensing (could be a venomous snake, could be a mouse, but I'm not taking any chances) or when it might move and startle him, or when it's dangerous (snake, mushroom, roadkill, etc). He trusts me to protect him from whatever is bothering him, and if I tell him to check it out, he feels much more confident immediately because that set of words means "it's safe, it won't attack you, you can investigate it to your heart's content."

4\ lastly who would you say is the more noisy one between the too? I actually love dogs barking but I know my neighbours won't like it .

Probably the GSD. They do alert to strange noises, people at the door, etc. It is quite possible to teach the dog a "quiet" cue and I wouldn't say that all GSDs bark to the point of annoying neighbors - our dogs are actually some of the quietest on our street. Opal only barks if there's something outside, and Delta only barks if there's something outside and he feels threatened by it. (Opal is a GSD, Delta is a Standard Poodle.) Our neighbors' dogs will bark at nothing and everything - they're terriers and terrier mixes, for the most part, with a few other breeds around. The labs I take care of, one is almost silent but does occasionally alarm bark, and the other barks for joy when you come home and when he wants to come inside from the yard, but otherwise both are quiet.

[Lara575]

Hi Erica

Iv only just read your reply. I'm starting to understand the GSD more I have one last thing to ask , what steps could I take in making sure my GSD grows up to be confidant like a lab for example?

[Nettle]

I'm not Erica, and I'm sure she will be here soon to answer your question, but I have added my comments to help your way of thinking.

A GSD can never be confident like a lab. It is the GSD's lack of confidence that makes it such a good guard dog and easy to train in guarding matters. They are needy dogs, so they like to be with their owners, don't like others (people or dogs) getting between them and their owners, and are easy to train in matters that involve staying close to their owners because of that neediness. This is a trait bred into them for untold generations and no matter how well we train, we cannot train it away because it is a behaviour.

Having said that, we can socialise constructively by introducing the young GSD to new things/places/events gently and positively so that each new experience is a pleasant one, and the dog gains and retains confidence in its owner. What we cannot do is make them friendly and extrovert in the way that a labrador is.

So stay with the art of the possible you cannot have a GSD body with a labrador mindset. If you crossbred the two, it would still not be a 'given' which mindset and looks each pup would inherit.