My New GSD Puppy

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master2

My New GSD Puppy

Post by master2 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:31 pm

Hi Guys

After reading everyone's views on my last post why are show lines hated so much I have decided to get a working line GSD as I really want to do agility and other dogs sports. I still love the show line but with what nettle said I knew a working line would be better for me so thank you nettle. my best friend is a policeman and I asked him why the police use working lines and he said because show lines could never do a police dogs job as there drive has been bred out of them and they would most likely run then defend there handler and he say's about there back legs being to weak as show lines are bred for there looks not working ability or drive or temperaments. so I asked were they get there police dogs from as I want a dog who will be focused on me and that wants to work so he asked the police handlers and got back to me and told me that there is not one breeder they go to there are quit a few but there was one breeder the handler recommended and said that not when they start to train the dogs that not all the litter has what it takes to be a police dog and that's why he recommend this breeder as he said that every litter they have had from him the whole litter has become police dogs and that they are amazing dogs and have been going to him for the past 12yrs and that his dogs are know for there working ability and good temperament and they have also been the healthiest dogs they have had.

so I contacted the breeder and he told me that is reason for breeding is to provide to services like the police, military, guide dogs and PAT dogs etc. he also has one litter every other year for family, sport, working (trials) homes and he breeds only when he wants a dog for him self as when he has a litter that is not for services it is because he wants to keep a puppy for him self as he dose working trials and dogs sports like fly ball, agility, obedience and tracking. he is also a dog trainer and can help thought out the dogs life as he like to know how they get on not only as puppy's but thought out there life. the kennel is called Kazzardsway and he is having a litter expected to be born in feb and they will go to there new homes in April at 8weeks.

this is mom http://www.kazzardsway.co.uk/jeri.html

and dad is http://www.rockforcegsd.co.uk/tazar.html and here's another link http://www.rockforcegsd.co.uk/tazar_gallery.html

I have put my name down for a male and I have been to visit and he is very friendly and showed me all the health test's and he really asked a lot of questions about my lifestyle what I do day in day out a=I had a lot of things I asked him and we were both very happy and am so excited and can not wait for him to be born and bring him home in April. I will post pics when I do bring him home.

JudyN
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Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by JudyN » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:31 pm

Brilliant - I can't wait to see the puppy photos!
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

Theo400

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by Theo400 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:56 am

Hi Master 2

I would like to ask will this be your first GSD as I do know Bernie very well (the breeder of Kazzardsway) as before I got Theo my first choice was to go to him as I do prefer the working line than show line but the reason I decided not to go to him was when I met his dogs I could see after 2hrs with them I could see they were to high driven for me they are not for the faint hearted as all they want to do Is work all day and I knew they were not right for me. Jeri I have met a few times and the mother if I had gone to him would have been jade and she was very headstrong and Bernie told me she was a challenge to train as you have to show her your boss as she tried to rule his house. I am just saying that working lines don't tend to be a great first pet as they just want to work all day and his really do as that's what he dose all day is work them.

just be careful

master2

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by master2 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:01 am

Thank for your reply.

I was worried about that as they did seem full of energy and seem more happy when he was working them or playing fetch with them.

but it will be my first GSD and my First dog and I thought all this high drive thing was a load of rubbish and that any dog can be a good first time dog. all I have to do is train it and exercise the dog both mentally and physically.

Theo400

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by Theo400 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:09 am

Hi

it is not a load of rubbish Theo is no were near a high energy as his dogs Theo has 1hr 30mis of exercise every day and loads of play and he is happy with that but his dogs as he told me get worked most of the day and in a pet home would need round 2hrs and more a day. even though Theo is energetic he is no were near there level of wanting to work. you have to rember these dogs are bred to work so if you had one you have to be certain that you do want to do the things you say you will and that you can handle a working dog on top of that.

master2

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by master2 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:21 am

Thanks for your reply.

I would like to see what other people think on the matter. I was a bit worried about this being my first shepherd and whether I should go with a show line as I know them very well. as I did read on the GSD forum that WL are more determined

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Nettle
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Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by Nettle » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:49 am

Working lines are very different, and very hard work even for those who know and love them. Maybe think a bit more on this, figure how much time you have to spend with the dog and how much 'downtime' it will have when there is nobody to occupy it. If your chosen kennels is near enough, perhaps the breeder would allow you to spend time with the dogs and see how hard their drive is. You really do not want police-dog drive for the activities you plan. It is absolutely your decision, but there is no harm done in thinking some more.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

master2

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by master2 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:46 am

Hi Nettle

and thank you for your reply.

I have already met his dogs and they really have a high drive to work as I saw it for my own to eyes. Jeri got very restless and was pacing up and down and we had (me and the breeder) had been out on the field with her for 3hrs playing fetch and she was still full of fuel and wanting to go. she only lied down for the first 15mins of coming in and wanted to get back out again. he said that the puppies would be like that.

would you say nettle that they are more hard work than the show lines like what Theo400 has said? as even though I would like to do those sports the most important thing to me is to choose the right line and breeder. I work part time so could only do sport about 3x a week and on non sport days could only manage 2 walks a day maybe three. how are working line more harder than show? (I know it depends on the dog but as a general for working dogs how are they harder than show) as you say they are very different and very hard work. how?

bendog
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Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by bendog » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:11 am

Working lines are a totally different kettle of fish to show or "pet" lines!
You'll have your hands full - my friend has a working line pup who has just turned a year old and although she loves her, she really struggles to manage her. And she has developed some dog aggression and guarding issues as a result of poor training, frustration and just being a very headstrong line.

You are right that all dogs need training and mental stimulation but what differs is the amount of each of these they need. One dog might be ok with two 45 min walks and a couple of food toys, others need ALL of their food from food puzzles, over 2 hours of exercise, plus plenty of brain activities whether that's obedience training or scent work or tricks or something else.

Just an example but I have terriers and my show/pet bred border terriers are MUCH easier than my working bred Lakeland because she just wants to work or train all day and if I don't give her enough to do she can be a real pain!

Theo400

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by Theo400 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:31 am

Hi

Bendog is right this is the reason I got Theo as I knew I would not be able to cope with a working line. they are always on the go and need something to do. as long as Theo gets his walks he will happily snooze for 2hrs were a working line would be like ok we have gone for a 40min walk what's next what do we do know. Theo is half working and Half show but he is way more Show line than anything and looking at him you would of thought he was full show. he is not even interested in working or dog sports. I once tried agility with him and he followed me with the treat and got to the obstacle to jump over and he stopped and looked at me as if you expect me to jump over that and he just lied down and the trainer tried to get him interested but he stayed there and fell asleep. :lol: he's a very funny dog. and very laid back. I know one of the owners of Theo brother and he is more like the working side and she said he was soooo hard to train to challenge that energy. even know he is 2yr like Theo and she still finds him hard to mange.

I would 100% say show are easier than working.

mum24dog
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Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by mum24dog » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:26 pm

I've never had a GSD myself but the same claims are made about working collies - need loads of exercise, stimulation etc etc.

I'm guessing it is just as misleading to say that about other breeds as it is about collies. Just because they can run all day doesn't mean they should and in reality the most important thing is to teach them to switch off, not spend 3 hours throwing a ball getting the dog wound up. No dog should be on the go all the time and I would be wary of any that show signs of constant pacing. It just isn't fair on the dog not to make sure it has an off switch. Being working bred is no excuse.

My very much working bred collie pup is 6 months old and dozing by my side as I type. He has been a pain in the backside in the past and a reminder why I don't like puppies much but at last seems to have grasped that I am not constantly at his beck and call to provide him with entertainment. I'm not sure if I would have got him as a first dog though, and I'm not sure that a shepherd of any breeding is likely to be a suitable choice for a first timer. Maybe an older one where you know what you are getting but a pup is an unknown quantity and may not turn out to be what you imagine.

Theo400

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by Theo400 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:29 pm

Hi

I disagree with mum24dog when she says that GSD of any line are not good first time dogs that is 100% rubbish and the fact that you have never had a GSD show you don't know them my first dog was German Shepherd Dog and I love him so much he is the best thing to happen me. GSD can be great first dogs, my brother found his Labrador to be way more harder as a first time dog than Theo and Labradors are considered the best first time dogs :roll: and it all depends on who the first time owner is.
mum24dog wrote:I've never had a GSD myself but the same claims are made about working collies - need loads of exercise, stimulation etc etc.

I'm guessing it is just as misleading to say that about other breeds as it is about collies. Just because they can run all day doesn't mean they should and in reality the most important thing is to teach them to switch off, not spend 3 hours throwing a ball getting the dog wound up. No dog should be on the go all the time and I would be wary of any that show signs of constant pacing. It just isn't fair on the dog not to make sure it has an off switch. Being working bred is no excuse.

My very much working bred collie pup is 6 months old and dozing by my side as I type. He has been a pain in the backside in the past and a reminder why I don't like puppies much but at last seems to have grasped that I am not constantly at his beck and call to provide him with entertainment. I'm not sure if I would have got him as a first dog though, and I'm not sure that a shepherd of any breeding is likely to be a suitable choice for a first timer. Maybe an older one where you know what you are getting but a pup is an unknown quantity and may not turn out to be what you imagine.
I disagree that a puppy might turn out what you did not imagine a puppy turns out the way you train him/her. Theo was easy to train and I never once felt like I wanted to scream, I never had any trouble with him. a puppy turns out the way you want him/her to be.

JudyN
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Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by JudyN » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:08 pm

Theo400 wrote:I disagree that a puppy might turn out what you did not imagine a puppy turns out the way you train him/her... a puppy turns out the way you want him/her to be.
Now, I'm afraid that is not true. I got a puppy at 7 weeks, followed the advice in a good positive puppy training book, and have a dog who developed a huge resource guarding problem at a very early age. After 5 years of hard work he is better than he was, but without management he would still bite, and bite badly. Several positive behaviourists and trainers have had a lot of input, all have assured me that I haven't done anything to cause the problem and no one can really understand why he is the way he is. I've also had to battle with separation anxiety, and jumping up & mouthing that left my arms black & blue when he was young.

A GSD may be a great first dog if you're lucky. When I was a child we had a rough collie and a Yorkie b!tch, we did everything wrong (hardly ever walked, no real training beyond 'sit', used a choke chain on the collie, as children we were allowed to climb all over the collie) but they were easy, happy dogs - I can't remember hearing either of them even growl. We were lucky.

You really can't extrapolate from your experience of one great dog to whether a particular breed is a good choice for a first-time owner or not. You say yourself that a working GSD would not have been a good first-time dog for you, and as is clear, there are grave concerns about the health of show lines - this suggests to me that a GSD is not a good first-time choice unless you know that you can commit a huge amount of time and energy to the dog, which not many people can do.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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Nettle
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Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by Nettle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:58 am

With phrases like "first time dog" we also need to factor in the experience of the new owner. Someone can have worked extensively with dogs but never had one of their own because life didn't permit. This person could sail through the ups and downs of a dog that an equally committed but less experienced first-timer could not.

master2 I know you are desperate for a puppy - and I know how that feels! - but is there a way you could get some hands-on GSD experience, maybe helping out at a kennels or a breeder's, and then you would see for yourself what you felt comfortable with and what you'd be glad to avoid? A little practice is worth a ton of theory, and we all want you to be happy with your dog.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

master2

Re: My New GSD Puppy

Post by master2 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:17 am

Hi Everyone

Nettle- I did go and help my friend at her boarding kennels as she asked if I wanted to help as she had 4 GSD in and she knew I liked them. so I did and fully enjoyed walking them but I could only mange tow as the other tow were to strong on the lead. I also walked a Lab and I really fell for him. I then worked at my local Labrador rescue and every Lab I walked I fell in love with as they made me laugh. I did want to volunteer for a GSD rescue but they said no as I have not got enough experience for the GSD they take in as there a headstrong breed.

I did narrow my breed choice down to a Lab and a GSD but my auntie put me off labs telling me that they are so mouthy and hyper and that a GSD would be better for me as labs are cracker? I don't know whether that is true. but when I was walking both breed I felt more safer with the Lab if that makes any sense.

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