which breeder

Breed specific discussion of your favorite breed.

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frozen3
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which breeder

Post by frozen3 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:42 am

hello

this is my first post!!.

I would really be greatful if you could help me choose which breeder to go to. I have narrowed my choice down to these and would like to know if these were the only breeders on earth of the GSD which one would you go to. I an not interested in rescue as I would prefer a puppy. these are the choices

http://www.champdogs.co.uk/litter/32244

http://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeder/26654

http://www.champdogs.co.uk/dog/41324

tell me which one you would go to? my last shepherd was from working line and I had many years of happiness with him but want a show line this time. I am aware that some shepherd can have frog legs and that's why I am asking you to see which one you would choose?

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JudyN
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Re: which breeder

Post by JudyN » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:31 pm

I'm not an expert, but I don't think you could make a decision based on the information there. I have an idea of the sort of questions I'd be considering though:

- Constitution: show GSDs have sloping rear ends which can lead to severe problems: see this thread: https://positively.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19923 Is it possible to have a GSD who can do well in shows but be sound and fit? (Obviously any breeder of show GSDs will tell you it is, so you'll have to do your own research.) Once you are able to assess the fitness of a GSD from its conformation, then you could ask to see the parents in the flesh.

Then I'd be asking each breeder:
- How many litters do they rear a year?
- How many breeding dogs do they have?
- Where do the dogs live? i.e. in the house as part of the family, or in kennels?
- Where are the pups born & where do they then live? You don't want to take on a pup who has never seen the inside of a house before.
- What are the pups fed?
- What socialisation do the breeders do with the pups? How many people do they meet, have they been taken to see the big outside world, do the individual pups ever spend time away from the other pups (so being removed when they are bought isn't so stressful)?
- Will the breeders take the pup back at any time if you have problems? (A good breeder will be willing to do this if at all possible.)

Other more experienced members may have something to add to this, but I hope this helps a little :D
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Ari_RR
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Re: which breeder

Post by Ari_RR » Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:21 pm

I would be very tempted to rescue that poor Rottweiler puppy from your cousin.
Assuming that someone can rescue her from the police first, before it's too late.

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Nettle
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Re: which breeder

Post by Nettle » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:45 am

If going to a commercial breeder, it's useful to see if they have any old dogs. Meeting the old dogs shows you how the puppies will age. No old dogs rings alarm bells.
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frozen3
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Re: which breeder

Post by frozen3 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:31 am

hi everyone

I did decided on http://www.champdogs.co.uk/litter/32244 as my other choices did not return my calls but Michelle did and she was very polite and I asked her the following

1/ how many litters do you breed in a year/ she said that she only breed 1 litter a year some years she dose not have a litter as she like s to give twiggi time to rest from having a litter as she did not have a litter in 2013 but had one this year and may, may not have one next year she prefers to see how twiggi feels first and if she is ready to be bred again.

2/ how may breeding dogs do you have/ she said just twiggi as she is not interested in making money from a litter like some people who will have more that three females. she said I only plan on having a litter every other year at that. and she has her own stud dog so I can see both parents.

3/ were do the dogs live/ she said that they live in the house with her and her puppies are reared in the house as well.

4/ what dose she feed her dogs/puppies/ she said Arden grange and some nights her dogs get a home cooked meal

5/ what socialization do the puppies get/ she said that they get to explore her garden and go to the vets in a car and are exposed to TV's/ washing machine/ cooker/ hoover and children and other people .
I have not been added to her waiting list yet I just want to know what you think she did invite me to meet her dogs and I went down and they were wagging there tails and seemed very friendly and they even played with me they seemed fine when moving and she told me she had help from her father in choosing both dog (her father is an ex-forces handler) Kaiser came first and then a few years late she got Twiggi. what do you think should I go for it? ( I may have to wait for a puppy though as she dose not know when her next litter will be she did say either 2015 or 2017) but I would be happy to wait.

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JudyN
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Re: which breeder

Post by JudyN » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:52 am

It's brilliant that you're prepared to wait so long for the right pup - respect! :D

This breeder seems to tick all the right boxes. Apart from getting a closer look at both parents' rear ends (which don't look as bad in the photos as a lot do), you could maybe ask if you could be put in touch with anyone else who has had one of her pups, and either speak to them on the phone or, even better, go and meet them.

Of course, you could still put your name down on the waiting list and pull out later if you did find an even better breeder or your plans changed at a later date.
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emmabeth
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Re: which breeder

Post by emmabeth » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:35 am

I think I would also ask her, why is she breeding - because if she isn't breeding to keep a pup for herself... particularly if she isn't showing/working/involved in some activity which demonstrates her dogs strengths compared to others... That doesn't automatically make her a bad breeder, but it does make me wonder.

I would ask if its possible to meet or talk to some owners of previous puppies - if you CAN that would be interesting to see how those pups have grown up - if she can't or won't let you do that that probably says a lot about her, so Id be more inclined to walk away if thats a huge issue for her, than if I spoke to an owner and found their pup was difficult, because all pups are different and each home will raise a pup slightly differently... but if she cant or wont put you in touch, she's not kept details or is trying to hide something which is far more worrying!
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frozen3
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Re: which breeder

Post by frozen3 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:43 am

Hi everyone


I asked for a few puppy buyers details and after she talked to all of them she said these are the ones who were fine to talk to you. tow I spoke on the phone to and one of them invited me to see her dog up and close so got a lot of good advice from all three.

the thing is I am on her waiting list now but she wanted to know weather I wanted male or female I was advised by my vet to get female with me being a first time owner as there less dominant and are less strong both physically and mentally. but Michelle says that she has not seen any difference and that even females can be strong willed like males and that her female is more independent than her male.

my question is are females easier for a first time owner or are both genders the same?

Thanks FROZEN :)

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Erica
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Re: which breeder

Post by Erica » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:34 am

Any time someone says something about a dog being "dominant" towards you you can pretty easily ignore their advice. They have outdated information and aren't keeping up with the newest research!

As for male vs female, I haven't personally seen much of a difference. Breed and family temperament are much better predictors than sex. If the breeder says that there's not much of a difference in her pups, and so far has proven to be a good responsible breeder, then I would be inclined to believe them.

I would consider when you want to neuter (check the health section of the forum - many interesting articles there and I can link some later). Latest research is pointing towards it being better to wait on neutering - in fact, my poodle pup's breeder's contract is void if the dog is neutered before a year old because of the increased risk of so many things. If you can and will wait to neuter, will you want to deal with a teenage boy or a female in heat? Adolescent intact male dogs have something like seven times as much testosterone as a mature intact male and can behave very obnoxiously. A female in heat has to be exercised but kept away from other dogs, especially males, ESPECIALLY intact males...and you may have to clean up a few spots of discharge off the floor. (Dogs have much less mess than humans though!)
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JudyN
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Re: which breeder

Post by JudyN » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:54 am

Erica wrote:Adolescent intact male dogs have something like seven times as much testosterone as a mature intact male and can behave very obnoxiously.
And other dogs are likely to behave obnoxiously towards them - some male dogs really don't like young unneutered males (this should be the other owners' responsibility of course, but many owners don't make allowances for it).
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minkee
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Re: which breeder

Post by minkee » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:15 am

"less strong both physically and mentally" - this part makes my blood boil!!

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Erica
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Re: which breeder

Post by Erica » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:11 am

Yeah...pretty gross. :/ I would look for a different vet personally, if possible!
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

frozen3
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Re: which breeder

Post by frozen3 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:38 am

Hi everyone

thanks for your advice as I do prefer males.

thanks for your advice :D

frozen3
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Re: which breeder

Post by frozen3 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:09 am

Hi Everyone

I was contacted last week by one of the puppy buyers as I left a message and he got back and said that even though Michelle raises them well he said that his dies at the age of 2 from a stomach disease and he also said that he never heard from her again after he brought the puppy and she did not answer his phone calls. so I decided to not go with her.

I have been in contact with another breeder http://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeder/32161

when I asked about puppy's she said invited me down to come and meet her dogs and talk over a cup of tea as she said that would be a better idea so both of us could ask what we wanted.

I asked her all the things I wanted to know her puppies are reared in the house and are fed a home cooked diet the get lots of socialization and they are wormed and have there first vaccine and come with all the paper work 5 generation pedigree, contract of sale, puppy advice, kennel club papers, toys, food and a blanket and lifetime advice. they are all endorsed so can not be bred from and she told me they will not be lifted for any reason. she also holds puppy reunions she had one the other day and invited me as she said it would be the best time for you to meet the owner's and have a chat and also see how the puppies have turned out. she also asked me lots of things, she asked

why I chose the GSD
why a puppy
is your garden fully secured
what experience do you have with dogs
who lives in your house
are you prepared to go to training class's and exercise the shepherd everyday rain or shine

they are just a few things she asked as she asked more than that. all 9 puppy owners turned up as the puppies are 9 months now and they all said how wonderful there dogs are and have had no problems and that anytime you need her she's there.

she also then asked if she could come and see my house for her self so she can see that it is right for a shepherd and that its safe for a puppy. she came yesterday and she said that fine and the house is great. she did say that not every breeder dose this but I want the best for my puppies and that I can be 100% happy that they are going to honest, safe, responsible owners and I can trust them with a shepherd.

so she is very strict which I like. I just wanted to give you an update and to see what you think of her dogs.

many thanks Frozen

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minkee
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Re: which breeder

Post by minkee » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:41 am

So long as her answers satisfy you, and the dogs appeal to you, and you think your lifestyles would work well together... then she sounds great! Everything you could ask for in a breeder.

Here's some questions you should ask: What are the bad bits about owning a shepherd? What are the problems and / or difficulties of her dogs in particular?

Try to find out what the 'bad bits' are because every dog has them!

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