Papillon experience?

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Sherlock
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:59 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Papillon experience?

Post by Sherlock »

Hi there,

Sherlock is 5 months old, I have had him for 6 weeks, and he nips to get what he wants occasionally. (I posted about his nipping a few weeks ago in the Dog Training Advice forum.) He's gotten MUCH better about nipping. He only seems to do this when he is terribly worked up or if we didn't give him enough mental/physical stimulation that day. So I will either crate him to get him to calm himself down, which works beautifully, or run him through his training routines until he's tired, which also works well. So I am learning what he needs and he is learning not to nip.

We had one instance where he actually seemed to try to bite me. Not a nip with incisors to get my attentions, but a full mouth around my hand threatening to bite down but not actually biting situation. There was some air snapping at me too. He doesn't like to have the mud wiped off his paws. Unfortunately, I made a rookie error here. It was no big thing to our last puppy. He would come in the door, I wiped his paws, he ran off to play. Simple. I mistakenly assumed that Sherlock would behave the same way. He didn't. I should have stopped and slowed down when he first started to show signs of discomfort. He warned me. He growled, he tried to wrestle himself away. I was too focused on getting the job done to listen to him. Since then we have been doing acclimation routines with wipes and treats with him.

Recently I had an unsettling experience with my vet. Sherlock was stung on the front right paw pad. I didn't know that. I just knew that he was spinning on three legs in circles and screaming. So I picked him up and took him down the street to the vet, thinking he had broken a toe. When my vet tried to examine the paw, Sherlock snapped at him. The vet ordered the tech to hold down my 8 lb puppy while he looked at the toe. When I said I had been working with Sherlock to not nip or bite, he told me that "It's just a Papillon thing. They all do that." I replied, "Not in my house." I might not be the best dog trainer or puppy Mamma out there but I work with my dog every day. My husband and I are with him almost 24/7. We put in the time and energy to train him. I was really upset that my own vet already thought my 5 month old puppy was a lost cause. As I was leaving he said, "They are yappy, biting little dogs. That's just what they are." My breeder is a dog trainer for obedience and rally. We work 3 days a week with Sherlock together. Nothing I have read or seen says my dog MUST be yappy and biting. But we have had this vet for 11 years. He's been with us through two cats and our tragic puppy, Meshach. I'm upset and I don't know what to think.

I am not giving up on my dog. That is for certain. But I might give up on my vet. What is your experience? Are the papillons you know yappy or biting dogs?
SM - Grateful that dogs love us even when we make our mistakes with them. God bless them.
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Nettle
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:40 pm

Re: Papillon experience?

Post by Nettle »

No more yappy or bitey than any other scared dog in pain being manhandled by an inconsiderate stranger. I'd go with the 'change to a better vet' option.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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ClareMarsh
Posts: 2008
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:11 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Papillon experience?

Post by ClareMarsh »

I have a 6lb chi, apart from having his mouth forced open (and to be honest who likes that :evil: ) he is fine at the vet but my vet from day one talked a lot about "Oh you have to watch these little dogs" etc Sadly I just don't think most vets take the time to get the dog comfortable and if in their head they are thinking a dog is going to try to bite them then they are already setting the dog up to fail.
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WufWuf
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 7:53 am

Re: Papillon experience?

Post by WufWuf »

I think what happens with little dogs is that they are far more likely to be pushed out of their comfort zone and man-handled more than big dogs. People tend to not listen to what the little ones have to say more often then the big dogs as it's not as dangerous for the humans as it would be with bigger dogs. This means that they are forced to resort to stronger and stronger communications - which of course leads to them having to snap/bite. I think it's very important that they are treated with the same respect as the big dogs and that they get a say in what happens to them.

People often presume my little dog (8lb) is yappy and snappy when she actually very quite and gentle compared to lots of the big dogs I've met (unless furry things are involved then she's all terrier :roll: :lol: )

Keep going with the handling work you are doing reward heavily and if it is possible consider asking around for a vet who's a little more patient, though I do understand it's not always possible.
Operant conditioning rocks but classical conditioning rules
Sherlock
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:59 pm
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Papillon experience?

Post by Sherlock »

Thank you all for your advice! I am going to investigate a new vet.

Little dogs do get away with more than big dogs sometimes. My friend has two Great Danes. She said that it only took her a few weeks to house train her dogs because she couldn't help getting really really upset every time they messed in the house. The dogs noticed her dismay and anger and it was a pretty quick process. Plus a nip from a Dane really does hurt like the dickens... so her response was not feigned. :shock:
SM - Grateful that dogs love us even when we make our mistakes with them. God bless them.
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