Recall

Valuable training articles posted by Victoria and other Positively members.

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Mattie
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Re: Recall

Post by Mattie » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:18 pm

Dolly's recall isn't always what it should be, every so often she will decide to have a play like yesterday, she ran off with Bonnie's ball and had a wonderful time. I couldn't get near her so I sent the other 2 dogs into a little box we go into to get in and out of the field, she followed, I shut the gate and got her.

Today she didn't get the chance, she had a 30ft long line clipped to her harness and dragged it round the field, I don't think she even knew it was there. Her recall today was fine, but it will be some time before I let her loose without it again. :lol:
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Wicket
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Re: Recall

Post by Wicket » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:44 pm

Dogstar Daily had more advice in the latest article about recalling with puppies!

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Mattie
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Re: Recall

Post by Mattie » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:59 am

Bumping this up
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jumpin_jack
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Re: Recall

Post by jumpin_jack » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:41 pm

hi mattie, brand new to the site :0)
i have a year old boy jack russ (parsons) and have a couple of serious issues with him - one bein recall!! wen he was a puppy i worked hard and trained him to a whistle and he was brilliant, didnt matter wot was goin on he always came back immediatly. infact i often got comments from other owners how gud he was esp as he was very young at the time!
well, i changed jobs which meant i cudnt take him out as much so my sister and friend started takin him out for me, now they deny it but i dont think they bothered to carry on the training (even though i said this was very important) so wen i did take him out he was awful and never listened to the whistle! now a year on i just cant get him back - he will come back for whistle but ONLY wen there isnt something more interestin goin on or another dog around! and he seems to sense wen its time to go back on the lead even though i dont touch or indicate im goin to and thats it - he aint comin back! iv tried callin him back several times during the walk and givin him a treat each time so he doesnt associate call back with anything bad but no go!
just to add the issue - he has very bad aggression (the other issue) wen either he is on a lead or another dog is on a lead or both so tryin to train him with a long line will be difficult! please please can u or anyone reading this suggest something? he really is a super lovely little boy but im pulling my hair out and walkin is not fun!!
oh yeah i have tried all sorts of treats but if he thinks hes goin back on lead or there something more interestin goin on he wont even sniff the treat!

jacksdad
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Re: Recall

Post by jacksdad » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:20 pm

jumpin_jack wrote:hi mattie, brand new to the site :0)
i have a year old boy jack russ (parsons) and have a couple of serious issues with him - one bein recall!! wen he was a puppy i worked hard and trained him to a whistle and he was brilliant, didnt matter wot was goin on he always came back immediatly. infact i often got comments from other owners how gud he was esp as he was very young at the time!
well, i changed jobs which meant i cudnt take him out as much so my sister and friend started takin him out for me, now they deny it but i dont think they bothered to carry on the training (even though i said this was very important) so wen i did take him out he was awful and never listened to the whistle! now a year on i just cant get him back - he will come back for whistle but ONLY wen there isnt something more interestin goin on or another dog around! and he seems to sense wen its time to go back on the lead even though i dont touch or indicate im goin to and thats it - he aint comin back! iv tried callin him back several times during the walk and givin him a treat each time so he doesnt associate call back with anything bad but no go!
just to add the issue - he has very bad aggression (the other issue) wen either he is on a lead or another dog is on a lead or both so tryin to train him with a long line will be difficult! please please can u or anyone reading this suggest something? he really is a super lovely little boy but im pulling my hair out and walkin is not fun!!
oh yeah i have tried all sorts of treats but if he thinks hes goin back on lead or there something more interestin goin on he wont even sniff the treat!
sounds like the whistle option got ruined for you. I would suggest starting over. pick a fresh means of signaling recall. a new word or new noise. keep this just for you if your family can't follow directions. just tell them to not let him off leash and save the off leash time for when you can take your dog out.

start using the method mattie describes at the beginning of this thread. it works. But also make your self very interesting and rewarding. somethings I did was play chase with my dog (a Jack Russel mix) I would get him to chase me. he loved it. I would also pop him a treat every time he came up to me or looked at me even if I didn't ask for it. i would randomly call him to me. make a fuss of touching his harness or collar for a second or two, give him a treat and send him on his way. or I would just call him back to me, give him some scratches and praise then a treat and send him on his way. this way coming to you doesn't become a predictor of end of fun. I use a combination of a hand clap (my dog isn't sound sensitive) and the word HERE to call my dog, not so much together but if I am at a distance he responds to the clap better than a verbal word. Sometimes I will just use the clap and turning and running away from him to get him to leave something and come to me. other times I wait wait for him to look at me then I call Jack HERE. I work to make my self rewarding, interesting and fun.

since your dog already knows recall, but has learned current recall signal can be ignored, the training should go a bit faster the second time around. your just associating a new signal to an already known skill.

jumpin_jack
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Re: Recall

Post by jumpin_jack » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:40 pm

again cheers jacksdad, i do play the chase game with him normally throw a toy and wen he's got and turns to look at me i leg it and its funny cos he runs as fast as he can and gets reli mad at me n barks as tho telling me off for runnin away! but again if something or more likely some dog is more interestin i jus end up lookin a waving, shouting, runnin lunatic lol cos he's like 'yeah yeah in a minute'

i am tryin to train him with the command 'here' around the house where theres less noise and distractions but as i mentioned in my other post i live with my mum n stepdad and he's a bit of a plonker and likes to try and show me up by sayin 'here' just after i do and louder and my dog reacts better to a mans voice than mine so the dog just ignores me - even tho im the one with the treat and he can see it clearly! unfortunately i cant move for a while and my stepdad is home all the time and enjoys showin off as tho hes better than everyone so talkin to him is pointless

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Mattie
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Re: Recall

Post by Mattie » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:02 pm

jumpin_jack wrote:hi mattie, brand new to the site :0)
i have a year old boy jack russ (parsons) and have a couple of serious issues with him - one bein recall!! wen he was a puppy i worked hard and trained him to a whistle and he was brilliant, didnt matter wot was goin on he always came back immediatly. infact i often got comments from other owners how gud he was esp as he was very young at the time!
well, i changed jobs which meant i cudnt take him out as much so my sister and friend started takin him out for me, now they deny it but i dont think they bothered to carry on the training (even though i said this was very important) so wen i did take him out he was awful and never listened to the whistle! now a year on i just cant get him back - he will come back for whistle but ONLY wen there isnt something more interestin goin on or another dog around! and he seems to sense wen its time to go back on the lead even though i dont touch or indicate im goin to and thats it - he aint comin back! iv tried callin him back several times during the walk and givin him a treat each time so he doesnt associate call back with anything bad but no go!
I am having the same problem with Dolly, I have someone to walk her for me because I was having a lot of problems walking, she has ruined Dolly's very good recall. I took her back to the beginning, she is fine in the house only outside she ignores me, and am training her to another word. It is easier to change the word than chang a dog's idea of the one you use now, as you are using a whistle, you will need to change that.

Dolly is improving again, I call once if she doesn't come I turn and walk the other way and use the word "Bye", she comes running, as she is running I use the new word, "Here".

You can't teach a dog to do 2 things at the same time, the aggression and recall has to be taught seperately, when walking your dog train for the aggression do the reactive dog training, when you want to give him a good run, do the recall training on a long line. You will confuse your dog if you do them on the same walk.
he really is a super lovely little boy but im pulling my hair out and walkin is not fun!!
oh yeah i have tried all sorts of treats but if he thinks hes goin back on lead or there something more interestin goin on he wont even sniff the treat!


Don't pull your hair out, you need that for those lovely sunny days, it helps keep the sun off your head. :lol:
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Mattie
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Re: Recall

Post by Mattie » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:04 pm

jumpin_jack wrote: i am tryin to train him with the command 'here' around the house where theres less noise and distractions but as i mentioned in my other post i live with my mum n stepdad and he's a bit of a plonker and likes to try and show me up by sayin 'here' just after i do and louder and my dog reacts better to a mans voice than mine so the dog just ignores me - even tho im the one with the treat and he can see it clearly! unfortunately i cant move for a while and my stepdad is home all the time and enjoys showin off as tho hes better than everyone so talkin to him is pointless
Don't do this at home then, if he is on a long line you can just work from that, you will get there with him but it may take longer. Change the word to another as well but don't let your stepdad know what it is.
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nightsrainfall
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Re: Recall

Post by nightsrainfall » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:25 pm

I'm glad this got bumped it. I'd be interested in trying it with a dog one day.

Oh, there's 15ft (~4.5m) and 30ft (~9m) leashes at the shelter - are these the long leashes you are talking about? (Don't ask me why they are at the shelter or what they use them for - I've never seen someone even suggest using them before).

Anyway, thanks for posting this Mattie! I'm excited for the chance to try it though it might not be for a long while. :-D
- Anna

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
~ Roger A. Caras

jacksdad
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Re: Recall

Post by jacksdad » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:17 pm

jumpin_jack wrote:again cheers jacksdad, i do play the chase game with him normally throw a toy and wen he's got and turns to look at me i leg it and its funny cos he runs as fast as he can and gets reli mad at me n barks as tho telling me off for runnin away! but again if something or more likely some dog is more interestin i jus end up lookin a waving, shouting, runnin lunatic lol cos he's like 'yeah yeah in a minute'

i am tryin to train him with the command 'here' around the house where theres less noise and distractions but as i mentioned in my other post i live with my mum n stepdad and he's a bit of a plonker and likes to try and show me up by sayin 'here' just after i do and louder and my dog reacts better to a mans voice than mine so the dog just ignores me - even tho im the one with the treat and he can see it clearly! unfortunately i cant move for a while and my stepdad is home all the time and enjoys showin off as tho hes better than everyone so talkin to him is pointless
pay attention to his barks, if he really likes running with/after you, they might be happy YAAAA we are playing barks. My dog will sometimes bark at me in this way when we are running and playing. The bark is 100% different than his other alert/scare/attack barks.

at this stage, if your dog isn't looking in your direction, don't attempt a recall. if he is checking out another dog, sniffing a smell etc wait until he checks in with you by looking in your direction. if you haven't got him thinking about checking in you use "watch me" to teach your dog that making eye contact and looking at you can be rewarding. Start playing hid and seek with him around the house or on walks. even just being half way behind a tree and calling out for your dog can build the idea that checking in with you is a good idea. you can do this while on leash, particularly if you are using a 15 foot or longer.

I used to worry about how I looked when I was out with my dog. now I don't care so much. I am sure I looked completely bonkers teaching the loose lead skills and look and sound like a goofy lunatic running on the beach with him yelling out "woohoo" to Jack as we run. but you know what...he loves it and it make it a game and we have fun.

absolutely do NOT try and use recall to call away your dog from other dogs and men right now. if he is loose, go physically to him and take control there. if he is on leash flipping out, gently lead him away. if you try and recall him away from strange men or dogs right now you will set your self back to square one.

Just take it one step and a time, really build the skills and don't rush it and you will get there.

nightsrainfall, those are the long leads mattie is talking about. I have a 15 foot and a 30 foot. I use the 15 foot a lot for places I have to use a leash, but want to give Jack freedom at the same time. I used the 30 foot briefly to work on recall. actually I started with the 6foot, then moved to this 15 foot, then 30ft as his recall skills improved.

runlikethewind
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Re: Recall

Post by runlikethewind » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:22 am

Hi Jacksdad

What do you mean here - just interested.

"absolutely do NOT try and use recall to call away your dog from other dogs and men right now. if he is loose, go physically to him and take control there. if he is on leash flipping out, gently lead him away. if you try and recall him away from strange men or dogs right now you will set your self back to square one.
"

I was reading the whole thread and couldn't see where there was a prob with men? Have I missed something. Interested to know if I can learn something here.

jacksdad
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Re: Recall

Post by jacksdad » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:00 pm

jumping_jack has some overlapping questions. there is also a thread in the training section about how to deal with re activeness towards dogs and men.

trying to use recall at this point by jumping_jack to try and get the dogs attention away from strange men and dogs would be counter productive and set back both trainings.

runlikethewind
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Re: Recall

Post by runlikethewind » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:31 pm

Ok I'll do a search. I wondered what the situation was to explain the advice to not recall. Only because .. I'm interested for my own understanding as to why this is not advisable. Human nature: dog barks at a man off leash; you shout dog back (preferablyin a happy voice! ha) , but if there is a reason to not do this (and go and collect dog instead), I'm interested to know.

jacksdad
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Re: Recall

Post by jacksdad » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:58 pm

when a reactive dog goes into its barking, lunging, growling, flailing etc mode, it can't listen to you issue commands. it's not ignoring, it's not in a "power struggle" with you, it's in a fight for flight, highly aroused state. it's worried about 1 thing, whatever it's trigger is. you don't want to ruin a recall that is just starting to show promise, by trying to use it in a situation they dog isn't going to respond to anyway. At least not at this point in the training.

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Mattie
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Re: Recall

Post by Mattie » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:36 am

runlikethewind wrote:Hi Jacksdad

What do you mean here - just interested.

"absolutely do NOT try and use recall to call away your dog from other dogs and men right now. if he is loose, go physically to him and take control there. if he is on leash flipping out, gently lead him away. if you try and recall him away from strange men or dogs right now you will set your self back to square one.
"

I was reading the whole thread and couldn't see where there was a prob with men? Have I missed something. Interested to know if I can learn something here.
We should only call or dogs "Once" when doing recall, if we call more than that we are teaching our dogs that they don't have to come back to us on the first call. When dogs run up to people or dogs, as Jacks Dad said, they dog isn't interested in us but concentrating on the person/dog so to keep calling the dog to come back to us won't work.

The other day I had Tilly and Cyril out on the field when some teenagers came on, both dogs ran to them when I called Cyril came back but Tilly didn't which is very strange for her. As I have mobility problems I can't run to get her so I changed the word I used to another with a different meaning which would also bring her back, "Look what I have got", I can call that as much as I want and it won't damage the training I have done with her as all it means is I have something nice for her. It worked, I hadn't gone far towards her when she came running back. These teenagers were sensible, they just stood when she ran towards them. Tilly is frightened of men but she rarely sees any as I live on my own. She is always better in the summer when we are away in the caravan a lot were she sees more men.
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