Double Trouble - Two puppies at once?..

Valuable training articles posted by Victoria and other Positively members.

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Re: Double Trouble - Two puppies at once?..

Post by emmabeth » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:35 pm

I know and I'm not having a go at you over having litter mate pups together, that wasn't your decision to make and isn't your fault.

But can you see now, WHY I wrote that article and why I was a little put out at you not reading it properly and then being a little rude about it?
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant

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Re: Double Trouble - Two puppies at once?..

Post by bendog » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:24 am

I realise this is old but I totally agree.
My cousin got two pups from a rescue. Both male thankfully, but littermates and they are lovely dogs but totally mental. I've done some work with them each seperately and they are easy to train (border collie crosses - with some german shepherd so very smart dogs), but together they are hard work. They wore me out completely the week I looked after them when my cousin was away, and they have injured my boyfriend and my Nan by jumping up. They are now nearly a year old and although its nice to see them play together they are still really hard work.

Having one puppy is hard enough! Don't know why anyone would get two!

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Re: Double Trouble - Two puppies at once?..

Post by reactive123gsd » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:22 am

True Emma! I wouldn't get two at the same time especially two litter mates, because 1. I would like to have lots of time to dedicate to each one with their training. 2. It is easier for them to become more attached to one another, rather than with me (which I believe might cause problems with training). If I have to get a pup I would adopt one, and then wait atleast two years to get another one. Depending how well the first's pup's training is going. If anyone read my posts... sience my dog has lots of problems now... I would rather wait intel I get them worked out before I get another one, because it would be too much stress for me, the dog, and the future's pup. It wouldn't be fair for the all of us. Puppies are big responsibility, and of course only a irresponsible breeder will ever sell two pups at once. I would not trust a breeder that will sell/give away more than one pup at a time.

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Re: Double Trouble - Two puppies at once?..

Post by kiya18467 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:19 pm

I read this post and would like to add my positive experience, I got 2 puppies littermates a brother and sister ( goldendoodles ) they are 2 years old now.
Having 2 pups can work successfully but be warned there is a massive amount of work involved and its 24/7.
Training began from day one, as soon as I brought Charlie and Lilly home.
They were and still are crated separately at opposite ends of the room.
I began with doing everything, and I mean everything individually, training, feeding, walking, grooming and playtime even vet visits one stays in the car while I take the other inside then swap.
They have been neutered and spayed as soon as the vet advised, funnily he suggested I get only one done, that for me was never an option
Thrust me it takes time and patience and I work full time and the dogs stay at home with my mum who lives with me and is available for toilet breaks, they are crated for part of the day but otherwise have the run if the ground floor.
I'm defiantly pack leader and my mum is next in the pecking order.
My dogs are dogs and not my "babies " and are treated accordingly the sofa and beds are for humans, Charlie and lilly have lovely beds the huge amount of floor space to sprawl on, they don't need the furniture as well.
They have two distinct personalities and if spooked or feeling unsure or insecure they turn to me for for reassurance not each other
They are still crated at night, that was something the pups and I decided on, I said " time for bed " they dived into their crates, so it began and continues to this day.
The biggist thing is consistency and being firm,
I wouldn't suggest getting 2 pups to anyone but for me it worked well, because I was willing to put in the time and effort, I knew it would be hard work and on days when its blowing a gale and the rain is pounding on the pavement I regret getting ANY dog let alone two, especially at 6.30am when I leave my warm bed.
I hope this helps some people who are struggling

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Re: Double Trouble - Two puppies at once?..

Post by Erica » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:17 pm

Hi Kiya, I hope you stick around and read around the site. You might pick up some new information! For example, the idea that dogs have "pack leaders" in humans has no scientific basis, and allowing dogs onto the sofa and bed will, typically, have no negative repercussions (unless your dog is a resource guarder). (There's also nothing wrong with asking dogs to stay off of furniture, but a lot of people would like to allow dogs onto furniture but think it will give the dog behavior issues when it doesn't.)

Recently there was a discussion on this subject in a Facebook group I'm part of. Someone brought up the term "Littermate Syndrome" and I found this article which is very relevant. Link here.
In order to maximize the use of their volunteer puppy raisers, one guide dog organization decided to try an experiment. Willing homes were given not one, but two puppies to raise, thereby doubling the number of puppies the guide dog organization could work with. Puppies born to these organizations are tested before being placed and are tracked throughout their growth and development. What the organization found was startling. Placing two puppies in the same household always caused one puppy to become temperamentally unsuitable for work, even when both puppies started off as perfect candidates...

Can littermate syndrome be prevented? Theoretically, yes, however it’s so difficult as to be nearly impossible in practice. Remember, even experienced guide dog puppy raisers aren’t expected to be able to prevent this issue from developing. At a bare minimum, the two puppies would need to be crated and cared for separately, including separate walks, training classes, and playtime with their owners. The puppies need to have more one-on-one time with their new owners than they have with each other, effectively doubling the work and negating any of the possible benefits (i.e. companionship) that they were adopted together for in the first place.
I tried to stress this heavily with the people I work for, but they ignored my warnings. Now they wonder why the dogs don't listen to them and don't seem to care too much whether they're there or not. Pip and Tal are very different when I'm around, as I devoted time to working with them separately. There's only so much that I could have done though, short of kidnapping one of the puppies, and their family will have to live with the consequences.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

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Re: Double Trouble - Two puppies at once?..

Post by kiya18467 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:56 pm

Hi Erica

Thanks for your comments...the dogs on furniture and beds isn't a " pack leader " thing it's a coming home from the beach or woods and two 35kg muddy and wet dogs jumping on them, thing.
Also if I let them on the sofa and bed, I would end up on their beds or the floor, there isn't enough space for us all.
I have a lot of friends who have dogs and I have no problem with how they treat their dogs, feeding off their plates, sleeping in the bed with them jumping and sleeping on the sofa and so on, its just not for me, I feel that my dogs need to know what is and isn't acceptable behaviour in and outside of the house it makes for happy dogs and humans
I would like to think they are well adjusted dogs who are happy and healthy.

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