Clicker Training - Heres How!

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chay
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by chay » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:41 pm

Noobs wrote: Go back a step in the spin training, don't do play dead yet until you've proofed the spin. He might be getting confused. It's also possible that your sessions are too long and he's getting tired. I went a little too long this morning and after Murphy performed a figure 8 several times around my legs, he went under my legs behind me and then back up front through my legs again instead of out the side.

So just take a couple of steps back.
i am having a similar conundrum, so this is going to be one of those really 'obvious answers once you know what it is' questions...so apologies in advance :lol: BUT...

following on from the above, i know its fairly common for dogs to offer behaviors when they know we are asking *something* of them but aren't sure what...but what is the best way to switch between new "in progress" behaviors, and existing "already learned" behavior? i am still a bit stuck as to how to "proof" new things, while still keeping it interesting for the small one and not simply making her do five minutes of "roll over", five minutes of "sit", five minutes of "down" (each in different sessions) - etc etc.

for example - we have been working on "roll over" which she has caught on to brilliantly. when first working through the stages of this one i wasn't mixing it up with anything else - ONLY working on "roll over". but now she's got "roll over", when i ask her to "sit" she rolls over. so i have to spend a few minutes sort of "reminding" her what "sit" means again. is this normal or am i doing it wrong?

i know the answer is that i haven't proofed "sit" properly, not REALLY - so i have taken steps back and worked just on "sit" again for a while...but how do i do that without it being deathly boring for the dog just doing sit / sit / sit over and over again until she knows that one exactly and i can move on to other things?

ftr our sessions are always only between 5 and 10 mins long, so i am hoping it isn't an issue of her getting tired/bored already...

hope that makes sense... :? i tend to overthink things sometimes, sorry!

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minkee
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by minkee » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:55 am

All I can say is what I did with my pup - I taught her roll over using the lure and reward and so on, and after she could do it just a few times, I started to mix up her commands again. It was more akin to teaching her a string of commands, sit, lie down, roll over, sit, lie down, sit, lie down, roll over. I think this probably kept it interesting enough for her, and she managed it fine. If your dog is struggling to keep up then sure, take it slower, but don't underestimate her!

And don't forget, you can teach her to sit when you stop walking, before you open the door, before you leave the property, before you cross a road... etc etc. Teaching goes on the whole day long, it doesn't just have to be in the bursts of clicker training.
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chay
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by chay » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:46 pm

yah, we do the 'string' thing too (sit/down/over), she has no problem with that bit - i guess i am just wary because i dont want her to JUST know it as an automatic string of behavior, if that makes sense? like if she really knew the difference between sit/down/over, i could ask her to 'sit' twice in a row, without her lying down right after the first sit - knowhatimean? :D

the regular incidental training we do during the day doesnt get her into the same sort of tizzy of just repeating/guessing behaviors, its only when we're clicker training...i'm pretty sure my click timing is right, and i certainly don't underestimate her as i know she is seriously clever (she had 'roll over' completely figured out in just 4x 5minute sessions! )

in any case i'll take a step back and make sure to have treats on hand for all our 'during the day' stuff when she's less excitable / expectant of the training...thanks minkee!!

MPbandmom
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by MPbandmom » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:35 pm

I am working on clicker training targeting. I have done some of this with the dogs in the past and they do seem to have a general idea that when I present my hand, or a wooden spoon, that they are to touch it with their nose. The problem I am having is that after 2 or 3 repetitions they stop targeting and start presenting other behaviours like sit, down, paw. Even if I take my hand back and present it again, they just sit there grinning a big grin waiting for me to click them for something. What am I doing wrong? I did read that I should resist the temptation to then switch to another known behavior. (I am guilty of that one. It seems like if I don't switch it up though, they just loose interest and wander off.) I want to get the targeting what I would consider good and solid to start using it during walks to draw them closer to me. Should I use a verbal cue like "touch", or just present the object to be touched with no verbal cues?
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.

Erica
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by Erica » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:41 pm

When I first started target training with Ami and Zeus, they'd do something similar - just stare at me and wait. To help them, I'd stick a bit of pepperoni or something on the end, then click and treat when they touched it with their nose. The downside is that now when they get really excited, they'll target with their mouth as well as their nose (nibbling the end of the stick), but yeah. Might be one way to proceed!
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

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Horace's Mum
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by Horace's Mum » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:49 pm

I would suggest two options. The first is to make sure you are using really yummy treats for a couple of sessions, so they really WANT to try and earn them, and just sit it out. If they wander off or throw other behaviours at you, just wait until they come back and you can carry on once or twice before stopping, and then build it up gradually over a few session until they will target 10 times in a row for example.

The second is to also use really yummy treats, but make the session so short they don't get chance to do something different. So if you know they always stop after 3 touches, ask for 2 touches and then put food and clicker away. Do this several times throughout the day. When they are really excited about seeing the clicker come out, ask for 3 touches and put it away. Again gradually build it up, but if they lose interest then next time drop it down one again.

You need to learn how your dogs work best, some dogs like it mixed up, being asked different things all the time, which is absolutely fine as long as it is obvious you are changing topic (I used to teach 4-5 things in any one session, and moved around the room, stood up/sat down, or used props, so each move had a distinguishing feature until they were put to command). Some dogs like to work for very short sessions. Others tend to do something a few times, think it too obvious and start looking for something else, and need to work out that the first thing is correct for themselves - or that they are telling you they know it and they need it to get harder.

In real life I think some dogs are a mix of all of the above!! Horus certainly is, I have to judge what we do and how we do it each time we start, and often change tactics in the middle if it becomes obvious he wants to work a certain way that day.

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Noobs
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by Noobs » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:56 pm

You may also have to take it smaller. Hold the target close to their nose and then C/T for looking at the target, or even just looking toward the target. Do that for a while until they start moving their nose toward the target. And then build up to touching the target and moving the target further away from their nose.

dog2
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by dog2 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:16 am

is there any behaviour clicker training is not suited to?

MPbandmom
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Re: Clicker Training - Heres How!

Post by MPbandmom » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:53 pm

Working on clicker training some more. I think I am the major malfunction in this process. I recently read "When Pigs Fly." Sky is definately a pigs fly kind of dog and Sirius has her moments. I am now reading "The Evolution of Charlie Darwin." These books seem to deal with starting clicker training the moment one comes home with a dog. It starts with loading the clicker, then playing the name game, then other games.

What I am trying to figure out in my stop and start history of clicker training, is what I should be doing? I think the clicker is loaded and that the dogs know what it means, but just having the clicker doesn't mean I am getting behaviors and focus thrown at me out in distracting environments, so maybe I don't have the clicker as loaded as I think. I'm not quite sure what to do with the name game. The name is only supposed to be used in a positive way, and I know that won't be the case with my two. I thought about changing the names like secret recall words, but that would mean starting in a low distraction environment (home) where I would likely be cross examined on why I was saying X to the dogs. There is the box game, which I have tried without too much success. But apparently I was starting out at an advanced level rather than a beginner level. (based on what I read in the Pigs Fly book)

I have long had issues with various training recommendations that I have been given (mostly before finding this site). I guess being a cat person, some things I have been told to do, I see the usefulness of it, but then it kind of feels like it would just take all of the fun out of it for the dog. (I'm thinking of things like throwing the ball while the dog waits and then releasing the dog to go find the ball.) Sky has a 6 year history of taking off as soon as the ball is thrown (or before) and catching it mid air. She absolutely delights in this game. It just seems like it would be cruel at this stage of the game to make her wait and stay put while a ball was thrown. But, at the same time, I can see where the level of self control that would be accomplished by this, would be very helpful when we are out and about and encounter squirrels. (Which she also loves to chase.)

I have also had fears of loosing the distincitive personalities of my dogs. I guess I have visions of obedience training turning out robot dogs that just live to obey. Not saying that is necessairly a bad thing, but I don't want robots. I want independent thinking dogs that think being with me and doing things with me is cool and fun. Reading, "When Pigs Fly" has given me the thought that this is possible with clicker training. I just don't know whether to start at the beginning with loading the clicker in various environments, or to start with the name game using their existing names, or whether to start with the box game, or some combination there of. (name game outside, box game back at home) (clicker loading outside, name game inside) Should I skip that part altogether and work on clicking for focus outside, or targeting outside?
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.

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