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The second article is from the UK, and the person writing it is mostly
expressing opinion - and he is not a vet nor a veterinary behaviorist,
and i didn't see any references to any published literature - usually
go by what I learned, and by the latest research done at University
level with certified behaviorists/veterinarians. I can tell you that
with certainty, certain cancers are not going to occur if you spay and
of course neuter before a certain age. Other medical conditions as
well. Some of the bad learned behaviors occur after sexual maturity
(such as territorial marking…. I don't have to tell you that).
I do NOT encourage waiting, especially because even one heat cycle or
sexual maturity in males puts them at higher risk for medical disease
(or hardware disease, as we call it - getting hit by a car…. because
they can smell the scent of females so far away) etc etc. Maybe they
don't have the same overpopulation problem we do here, but for ethical
reasons, I would never suggest waiting to 10 - 27 months. In all
reality, - what he says about the medical aspect of things, he's
wrong. He should present the literature that supports his
postulations. I have been a vet for almost 18 years and the only
prostatic abscesses I've seen were in intact males. The risk of
prostatic carcinoma is higher (yes, neutered males can get this cancer
as well, in 18 years I have yet to see a neutered male with it…).
Reading his article - my feeling is that he is stating opinion (to
which he is entitled), and he shows no proof of what he is claiming.
Some of it didn't even make any sense.
So the second article I sent you mentions a study that states the
incidence of prostatic adenocarcinoma was higher in neutered males.
Like I said, I've only seen it in intact males…. so maybe this is the
article the author is referencing. We are mainly concerned with the
medical benefits as well as the overpopulation.
I don't spay under 3 months. My preferred age for spay/neuter is 4 - 5 months.
anyway, we all have our own preferences. In general, I like to see
studies referenced when people write articles, because anyone can
state an opinion.
My immediate thought is that if this vet cares to take his/her head out of his/her fundament, all the research is readily accessible and in the public domain.
There is NO excuse for any professional to avoid 'CPD' - Continuing Professional Development.
And I have a for a trainer's opinion just being opinion, but his/her opinion being FACT because s/he has different letters after his/her name.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
i've never understood the argument of keeping males from getting hit by a car in pursuit of a sniff. .........seriously?
i've lived with numerous entires, male and female.........and this over-sexed, foaming at the mouth, jumping a 15 foot wall, and entering a 6 digit security code to gain access crap that vets seem to think happens, just doesn't.
yes males are difficult to live with when you have an in-season *****.........and yes, i wouldn't count on training to call them off of a b*tch standing in front of them flagging her little heart out......but a secure yard is a secure yard.........
i think the problem is that vets only see neutered males for the most part and they really don't know what 'normal' is suppose to be.
i also believe that as much as vets want to think that they're 'experienced' and see dogs all day long.........they're really not even seeing 'normal' dog behavior. it's rare for a dog to behave in a vets office the same way they are at home or even other public places. it's situational. pretty much the only time i ever go to the counter at the post office is when i'm mailing my income tax returns to the internal revenue service ........i'm sure the postal workers all think i'm a pretty surly b*tch with zero sense of humor.
don't get me wrong, i love my vet...........but she and i were having a convo the other day and i couldn't believe it, but she didn't know about 'spay coat' ........i was explaining what the lack of hormones did a coated breed such as an irish setter. i mentioned that the spayed girls become light orange fuzzballs rather than the silky, deep mahogany color that they're suppose to be. i said, 'have you never watched westminster or crufts on tv??? THAT is what an irish coat is suppose to look like!" .........and she'd thought it was just the difference in grooming products and techniques that show people used.
My experiences are just the same gwd. My stud dog was so polite he'd wait to be told he could cover a b itch. And this
gwd wrote:over-sexed, foaming at the mouth, jumping a 15 foot wall, and entering a 6 digit security code to gain access crap that vets seem to think happens, just doesn't.
is such a fiction! Do some vets really believe it?
Sadly, in the absence of experience, they seem to. Oh dear, I can quote no references, only a sound background in dog husbandry
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
Yep, my vet says Ted needs neutering so he doesn't breed like he's out clubbing at a weekend by himself
As my first dog I was prepared for all hell to break loose around a ***** in season. He's met a few, I'm extremely alert and careful but I fail to see the behaviour the vet expects.
I called into the vets Saturday and asked them about the options of a partial spay hysterectomy - they looked at me like an alien and said we don't do that here. I then asked for any information on the standard proceedure, their response was "we do 100s its not a big deal" I replied "maybe to you" and walked out. I was furious at their lack of understanding.
My 2 year old is entire. He is my first dog and I've done lots of reading re neutering and quite frankly I think I'm going to keep him as he is. I've yet to see him turn in to some sex mad beast. We have a secure garden if he's out there I'm watching him. He is not booted out the front door to roam the streets. He rarely humps and he certainly doesn't mark indoors. He has met an in season girl and he did get a bit interested but once I gave him his tennis ball he soon lost interest in her . If anyone asks me if he's neutered and I say no I do get funny looks and told how irresponsable I am (like I'm personally responsible for all the dogs been dumped in to rescue). I tend to just smile and make a note not to speak to them in future!
I've yet to have inappropriate marking, running off, crazed aggression or anything like that in Sampson. It's Remy (who IS neutered) who marks left and right (thankfully no longer in the house) and has attempted to mount a b*tch at daycare.
Thankfully I have a lovely vet who promotes raw diets and delaying spaying and neutering. She prefers dogs to be altered, but only at appropriate ages. Took me years to find one like her though!
The more I learn, the more I apply that learning, the less I think we are doing the right thing in terms of how "we" currently justify, advocate, explain, advise, and practice spay and neuter.
I do believe without a doubt there is a place for spay and neuter in managing dogs as a species. Though having said that, I am not so sure anymore that "over population" is really our biggest issue or the issue we need to be the most concerned about.
I don't think we are at the point of no return, but I do believe the warning signs are there. hopefully we will wake up before it's too late because I believe we are doing far more damage than "we" realize.
Yes, this is just my opinion, no I don't have data, or studies etc. But for some of this, if you can't see that some of the justifications/arguments for spay and neuter don't add up, no study or data is going to change that.
for a trainer's opinion just being opinion, but his/her opinion being FACT because s/he has different letters after his/her name.
I replied "maybe to you" and walked out. I was furious at their lack of understanding.
. If anyone asks me if he's neutered and I say no I do get funny looks and told how irresponsable I am (like I'm personally responsible for all the dogs been dumped in to rescue). I tend to just smile and make a note not to speak to them in future!
