SA - reward for calmness?

[runlikethewind]

HI there

I need to find some info for a SA query regarding building up time alone - seconds, to minutes etc. What I don't know is do you ignore when you are leaving or say bye? Put your coat on and pretend to go but don't? Say hello, make a fuss or a reward upon returning. Those are the things I need clarification on. I can't find any articles in this section on SA.

Thanks

[JudyN]

From what I've read, you reduce attention a while before you leave, and then when you go, give a simple 'bye' as if nothing of note is happening - I give Jasper a kong & chew as I leave, and say 'see you later'. If your dog gets stressed the moment you start getting ready to leave, then yes, you get up, put shoes & coat on, pick up your bag and keys, and sit back down again. Repeat till the dog isn't stressed by you doing this. Then go to the door, come back again. Then step outside, come back in again.....

The usual advice is to ignore your dog completely when you come home, but I find this a bit unnatural, so give a very low-key greeting. I'll say 'Hi', give him a quick stroke or pat in passing, but will then get my shoes & coat off, put the shopping away or the kettle on, or whatever, before giving hima proper greeting (if he hasn't gone back to sleep by then!).

[Ari_RR]

My 2 cents..
Until probably he was about 8 months old, Ari had never been left alone, not once, someone had always been with him.. Us, or parents, of in-laws... Or even the kid (rarely though, not trustworthy enough).. So, we started very late in the game.

The key for us was not what we do when we leave.. Although - we don't fuss much, or make it into a huge fairwell party, but we don't pretend to not notice him either.. A quick hug, or a butt scratch (he loves that), "good buy Ari!" and off we go.
The key was in what we do before we leave.
Now, at 16 months old, it doesn't matter much anymore, he is accustomed to be left alone from time to time, for hours..
But when we just started, those first couple of weeks, the main thing that worked was to tire him out before leaving him alone.

So, bottom line in my opinion - if the dog is tired (physically AND mentally) - then the rest doesn't matter much.. Hug him or kiss him, or just say "good bye", fuss, no fuss,. It's overthinking.. He is tired, he really wants to crash and take a nap..

But if he is a bit bored and full of energy - then no matter how you perform your exit, it will be a pain in the butt...

Just my 2 cents, worked for us, whether this universally applicable - don't know...

[Ari_RR]

As far as coming back.. We completely ignore the general advice of completely ignoring the dog.... completely. Me coming back in the evening is the happiest moment for Ari, and frankly one of the best moments in the day for me. There is just no way I am going to downplay this and deprive both of us of the opportunity to express our happiness to see each other.. And to hell with the general advise in this particular instance

[runlikethewind]

Thank you for all the info

[ClareMarsh]

I've just read this as up until recently Ted wasn't left alone.

Patrica McConnell - l'll Be Home Soon

I found it really useful and we're at 12 minutes now with no problems (he didn't have SA this was about preventing).

One thing it suggested as you start to build time is that you go through the getting ready routine, hand over a yummy kong, leave, come straight back and take away the kong (obviously if you have a food guarder then this would need a re-think ), keep doing this also as you build up the time you are out of the house. The idea is to make your leaving a big fat positive rather than something they deal with. So it's "ooo yes, she's off out, I get a kong, best get busy with this, oh no, she's back, boooooo"

[Nettle]

As far as coming back.. We completely ignore the general advice of completely ignoring the dog.... completely. Me coming back in the evening is the happiest moment for Ari, and frankly one of the best moments in the day for me. There is just no way I am going to downplay this and deprive both of us of the opportunity to express our happiness to see each other.. And to hell with the general advise in this particular instance

It's like that with us too. I'm pleased to see them - they are pleased to see me - we love our homecomings.

[Horace's Mum]

Two points from my experiences - just to confuse matters!

If you have a dog with real SA, then tiring them out does not work. I have had times when I leave Horus after2-3hours of walking, brain games, you name it, but if he is stressed then he is stressed, if he is also tired then he is just tired and stressed. This is not the same as leaving a bored dog though - SA is not about boredom, it is about stress. Bored dogs shred stuff, but if you tire them out then they will sleep. Stressed dogs shred stuff and don't sleep.

As for coming home, I do have to be very careful about making too much fuss when I come home - I easily know when I have started making too much fuss because they next time I will come home to something shredded. I don't ignore him, he gets a big smile, a few strokes and scratches, possibly a cuddle, all lasting about 30secs, but then I let him follow for a few mins until he has settled again. Usually I bring them shopping in, open the baby gates so he can come out, and then go back to put shopping away etc before settling down for a fuss. So making a huge fuss when you come in DOES make a huge difference IF you happen to have that kind of dog. I would never totally ignore a dog though, always acknowledge them but quietly, and then wait until they are settled again before making a fuss.

[JudyN]

I sometimes wonder about the standard advice to leave a kong or similar. Jasper now actually wants us to go out in the evenings so he can have his kong & chew, and when I listen to the recording, there's silence for the first 10 mins or so. Then he gets upset because the food's run out and he's all alooooooooooooone.....

[Ari_RR]

Yeah.. HM, that makes sense... My dog does not have SA, and while happy and excited to see me when I am back - it's not an uncontrollable show of emotions.. It actually just running up to me with his tail like a helicopter propeller, squeezing between my legs for a butt scratch, singing some sort of a song or a tune... Then he runs away and comes back with a toy for me.. Things like that..

So, none of this is really relevant for an SA case ... Ooops Sorry

[jacksdad]

boy I must be turning into a "real" dog trainer because when I read threads like this the first word that comes to mind is the D word...as in "it DEPENDS"

Like Horace's mum, I work to keep Jacks welcome home greetings as calm as possible. Because that is what HE needs. If I let him greet my any old way and I responded how I actually feel, his goes WAY, WAY over the top in his greeting.... beyond healthy. But I also don't 100% ignore him. I gave that up a while ago.

Judy, it's not that food stuffed kongs aren't a good tool, it's just like so many other things we advise here, one part to a complete "program". By it's self, only gets you so far, but combined with other things gives you a complete solution. Like other issues, SA often doesn't get discussed beyond the absolute basics for getting started so it's easy to forget that things change along the jouny, other techniques and approaches will need to be tried or phased in as the dog progresses, takes steps back, stalls, more of it's personality is learned etc, etc....

[Nettle]

Yeah.. HM, that makes sense... My dog does not have SA, and while happy and excited to see me when I am back - it's not an uncontrollable show of emotions.. It actually just running up to me with his tail like a helicopter propeller, squeezing between my legs for a butt scratch, singing some sort of a song or a tune... Then he runs away and comes back with a toy for me.. Things like that..

So, none of this is really relevant for an SA case ... Ooops Sorry

No need for sorry A lot of people whose dogs don't have SA have been told it's wrong to enjoy the greeting when they come home. It's an aside to the main post, but it gives people 'permission' to enjoy their dogs' greetings.


Jacksdad, whether or not you wanted to go this way, you are indeed becoming one helluva dog 'understander'