Series 4 Episode 5 (UK): Harvey the Dobermann

[emmabeth]

Harvey is a big boisterous dog, whose problems list pulling, fear aggression, peeing in the house, and quite a few more.

The real problems however are Harveys owners, who bought Harvey not truly understanding a Dobermanns needs in life, ie firm boundaries and direction.

Victoria shows Harveys owners Jane and Bill how to deal with Harvey, starting with his seperation anxiety.

Jane doesnt do much with Harvey, but Bill does, and the balance needs sorting out, because Harvey is very attached to Bill as the most important resource he has. When Bill leaves for work, and Harvey is alone, he pees on the floor due to his anxiety at being left.

By getting Jane to spend more time with Harvey, feeding him and walking him and training him, Bill becomes less important and so when he leaves, Harvey is no longer anxious, and doesnt pee.

For this to happen however, Harvey needs to be better on the lead, as currently he can pull Jane over and understandably, she doesnt enjoy walking him at all.

Victoria tackles this problem using a headcollar in conjunction with a normal collar. This prevents Harvey from pulling and makes him infinately more controllable.

When Harvey accidentally slips his normal collar on the fields, Victoria and his owners discover that Harveys barking and lunging at other dogs is in fact fearful aggression, not a true intent to damage other dogs. He recalls immediately to Bill showing he does have more interest in Bill than in other dogs.

Victoria sets up an introduction with a stooge dog, to see for real what Harveys reaction will be. Whilst initially his fear overcame him and he lunged and barked and probably would have bitten, after a short while, parallel walking with the other dog, Harvey was calm and relaxed, showing that his problems stem from a lack of socialisation and a lack of understanding of how dogs communicate with one another.

Victorias advice was to continue this training, getting him used to other dogs and giving him plenty of exercise, and more direction and control in general.

Unfortunately for Harvey it seems that, going by the voice over at the end of the show, Harveys owners couldnt put in the work and so he has regressed and got worse.

If there is a lesson here, it is that dog trainers can tell you what to do, they can show you how to do it, but they CANNOT do it all for you, you must be willing to work on it yourself.



I personally thought it was a shame that Harveys owners didnt want to put the effort in, although perhaps their personal circumstances changed and they couldnt, i dont know. He seemed like a smart dog who with a little direction in life, could be a fantastic family pet.

I enjoyed the whole episode, however there was one part i didnt like and that was the way the introduction of Harvey to the bullmastiff was shown.

Dogs do not like walking head on at one another, its an extremely threatening aggressive thing for them, and poor Harvey just couldnt cope being walked head on at the other dog. Then of course he was on a shortish lead with no opportunity for escape which increased his stress further.

The intro had a good outcome despite looking very stressful, showing the full thing rather than a few minutes clip would have been better, but there is only so much can be fitted into the one show and of course we didnt get to see the beginning of that or really see in real time how fast Harvey calmed down again.

What did you think of the episode?

[MEL AND ZULU]

Gr8 show, just a shame they didnt keep it up.
As for circumstances changing, there were 4 of them that could have all chipped in but didnt.

Poor Harvey is the only one to loose out from their lack of commitment. I was honestly shocked when the voice over said that, i mean what was the point, the poor dog would be more confused then ever yo yo-ing backwards and forwards

[Victoria]

Yes unfortunately the head to head came after a walk around, which wasn't shown and it was the second stage of training. Everyone has their opinions and it is very easy to comment on what other people would have done if they were there but you don't get a full picture when you see it on the screen - if I had it my way I would have a four hour programme documenting the training process in full but I don't think C4 would like it! Harvey was under stress but his stress lessened so quickly after the introduction and even though he wasn't totally comfortable (because it was going to take months of hard work for him to feel comfortable -which obviously didn't end up happening because they didn't continue with the training) he made huge strides in that couple of days. When we did the revisit, work had been done and he was much better. But you know my thoughts on what happened after that already!

[emmabeth]

Yep, i did wonder if that clip of him going head on at the bullmastiff wasnt the full story, so to speak.

Thanks for clearing that up Victoria, I know some people on another forum wondered about the way that introduction was done. Hopefully they can come and read the 'back stage' information on here and realise its down to the limitations of a 30 minute tv show and how that has to be edited.

[Palermo Stephano]

Hmm, there was something odd about this episode, it was first adverstised weeks ago, then it seemed to be held over, then Vicotria, came in, did her thing, notwitstandinng the wife, whom no offence, seemed about as bright as a 3 Watt bulb, everything appeared to go okay, then, there was that bit at the end, which all seemed a bit bizarre

[Victoria]

The show followed the same procedure as always. there was no difference. When we returned they were making progress and it was encouraging, but I knew a lot more work needed to be done. The programme being advertised and then changed to a different day has nothing to do with myself or the producer. Channel 4 decide when to put the shows on and sometimes they change their minds even if it has been trailed and scheduled. It's happened a couple of times with IMOTD.

[emmabeth]

Palermo Stephano - can I ask you to please refrain from being offensive about the families and couples who appear on IMOTD. They are able to visit here and often do so.

Could I also point out not just to Palermo Stephano, but ALL posters...

Saying 'no offence' before writing something that could be offensive does not render that comment inoffensive. If you intend no offence, then don't say the potentially offensive thing in the first place.

[Palermo Stephano]

Palermo Stephano - can I ask you to please refrain from being offensive about the families and couples who appear on IMOTD. They are able to visit here and often do so.

Could I also point out not just to Palermo Stephano, but ALL posters...

Saying 'no offence' before writing something that could be offensive does not render that comment inoffensive. If you intend no offence, then don't say the potentially offensive thing in the first place.

Fair enough, but it was my opinion, having seen the show, that the lady in particular was not going to really stick to the programme given to her by Victoria, that was all I meant.

[Boxacrazy]

Sadly for us that are interested about dog behaviour and how to improve our training techniques etc. We aren't given the timeslots we'd love.
At least 1 hour a week etc preferably more...we have to be grateful for what we are given..

Having helped by taking part in two of the training sessions with Victoria who was helping Mel and Zulu, you realise that it's not just a 5min fix..
Our sessions were filmed nearly a year ago and they've yet to be screened. The TV production company were at pains to make sure that I wore different clothes so people could see it was a different day etc.

I had two 'stooges', one of whom wasn't the ideal stooge for Zulu as she's quite a high ranking female in my own pack. My second dog a female who is at the bottom of my pack was suitable for Zulu.
However you may get to see the introductions of both when it does get screened. But again it depends on editing etc..filming takes alot longer than the whole of the timeslot allowed for the programme so you can imagine how much is edited.

I think what the programme does convey is consistency and commitment
gets results but you do have to work at it!

Sadly some people really don't do their research when buying a puppy.
They just go on looks/size etc.
They don't realise what traits the breed has and if the breeder isn't on his/her toes when screening potential puppy purchasers mistakes can be made as the breeder lets them buy a puppy..who through lack of training becomes a handful and a potential rescue case.

[ALERT DOG TRAINING]

Victoria, a question for you.
I watched this particular episode and noted that your technique to stop Harvey from pulling was firstly to stop and then when he continued to pull you told the owner to turn around and walk back in the opposite direction.
Is that not allowing the dog to dictate to you ?!
My training is always based on teaching the dog to walk beside the owner on a loose leash and not to allow the dog to dictate what you do or can't do and certainly not to make you stop or change direction.

[mum24dog]

Victoria, a question for you.
I watched this particular episode and noted that your technique to stop Harvey from pulling was firstly to stop and then when he continued to pull you told the owner to turn around and walk back in the opposite direction.
Is that not allowing the dog to dictate to you ?!

Not Victoria, but I'm sure that she would say the same.
The dog is pulling because it wants to go forward.
You change direction. The dog is therefore not getting what it wants.
How is that giving in to the dog?

Pam

[emmabeth]

Ditto,

Again, not Victoria, but how can the dog be dictating to you if you remove the reward of getting there faster by doing an about turn each time.

Dog learns that pulling does not get him there faster, it makes him go in the opposite direction. Dog also learns he must pay attention to his handler or he will not know when they are about to change direction.

[Palermo Stephano]

I understand totally what VS's logic is with her methodology, that said, my view is, do what you do, and if it works, then go with that.