Victoria is so much better than Cesar Milan. I like how she realizes that dogs are smart, emotional creatures, as well as instinctual creatures. And how her training incorporates emotional healing. She doesn't rely on dominance to change behaviors. All Cesar does is he treats dogs like stupid creatures who are completely ruled by instincts and uses dominant scare tactics and man handling to bend the dogs to his will.
Victoria makes training fun for the dogs, you can see they have a good time and I like how affectionate her voice gets when she praises them. Cesar doesn't do any of that.
The problem is that more people know about Cesar Milan because he's more advertised, especially now with his dog product line (dog spring water???) and they think he's a God when it comes to dogs and they model themselves after his harsh training. Even his "ingenious" collar creation is harsh. AND dangerous. Placing the pressure at the weakest point of their throat can crush their windpipe, if the dog continues to pull, and can break their hyoid bone.
He obviously doesn't know what he's doing. And I find it hard to believe that he has that whole big pen full of dogs and they all get along with out anyone there to supervise.
Better than Dog Whisperer
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msminnamouse
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deleahrium
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the thing that speaks to me the most is the fact that most of Stilwell's techniques can be taken straight from the show and used in the viewers' home that day. my family does this all the time, and I've seen numerous posts on this forum about what we've learned.
alternately, Milan's show begins with a "do not try this at home" warning that makes me think it's more entertainment than education, and bears an uncanny resemblance to the kind of show with stunts done by professionals that, despite all warnings, viewers emulate and hurt themselves and others. it's dangerous.
alternately, Milan's show begins with a "do not try this at home" warning that makes me think it's more entertainment than education, and bears an uncanny resemblance to the kind of show with stunts done by professionals that, despite all warnings, viewers emulate and hurt themselves and others. it's dangerous.
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msminnamouse
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It's very obvious that a lot of editing goes into Cesar's show. With his methods of manhandling the dogs to "show them who's boss", he must get bitten quite frequently. Yet the show only shows him getting bitten by very small dogs, at best.
It doesn't make any sense to put yourself into the position that would very likely end with yourself being harmed. Like I said before, the dogs have a good time with Victoria and seem to enjoy learning as a result.
It doesn't make any sense to put yourself into the position that would very likely end with yourself being harmed. Like I said before, the dogs have a good time with Victoria and seem to enjoy learning as a result.
I do wish people would listen to the warning at the beginning of the show and not try it at home. The show is ADMITTING that what the are doing can hurt the human and/or dog and people still do it. Then again what did the show expect?
My biggest problem with him, other than that he hurts dogs physically and psychologically is that he never actually solves the problem or even looks at what is causing the problem.
Your dog barks at strangers because you are a bad alpha, not because he is frightened of them.
Your dog sleeps on the bed because he thinks he's in charge, not because it's comfortable and he gets to cuddle with people.
Your dog growls when you try and take things from him because he thinks he is dominant over you, not because he is afraid of loosing his things.
Your dog bites you during grooming because he feels he is in charge, not because handling frightens or hurts him.
EVERYTHING is done out of dominance or submission.
And what do you do to something that feels it's in charge? You punish and bully him until he decides you rule the roost. Except that that was not the problem at all and your fearful, uncomfortable dog is STILL fearful and uncomfortable plus some and has to keep his expression of emotions held inside as best he can or else he'll get attacked by his owner, so every moment of the experience that made him uncomfortable STILL does but he has the added stress of trying really, really hard to not show any emotion or he'll be attacked. So you basically create an anxious mess of a dog who, if he ever cannot hold it inside anymore, will release his emotion MUCH stronger than before because of the added stress he built up while being stressed by the possibility of your attack at any moment during the event.
Victoria changes the dog's MIND to change his behavior, she doesn't simply target the behavior. She finds the actual reason for the dog's behavior, not the made up one. If the dog bites during grooming then the dog needs to change his mind about grooming being unpleasant. Grooming will be paired with awesome things until the dog decides that grooming is fine and his behavior will change in response to his lack of fear of grooming. So the dog will not be stressed by fear of grooming or fear of attack from you for expressing himself, he'll LIKE grooming and be relaxed about the whole ordeal.
Plus I think it is disgusting that he thinks your dog should approach you with a lowered body and ears back flat, pure fear of what you'll do. He thinks a dog who walks normally with his ears up is being dominant over you and should be dominated until he walks in a "submissive" (fearful) manner. On a walk if the dog has his ears up he collar pops him until he walks the walk with his ears flat or mostly back, so the dog is in a constant state of stress or fear. How sad is that.
My biggest problem with him, other than that he hurts dogs physically and psychologically is that he never actually solves the problem or even looks at what is causing the problem.
Your dog barks at strangers because you are a bad alpha, not because he is frightened of them.
Your dog sleeps on the bed because he thinks he's in charge, not because it's comfortable and he gets to cuddle with people.
Your dog growls when you try and take things from him because he thinks he is dominant over you, not because he is afraid of loosing his things.
Your dog bites you during grooming because he feels he is in charge, not because handling frightens or hurts him.
EVERYTHING is done out of dominance or submission.
And what do you do to something that feels it's in charge? You punish and bully him until he decides you rule the roost. Except that that was not the problem at all and your fearful, uncomfortable dog is STILL fearful and uncomfortable plus some and has to keep his expression of emotions held inside as best he can or else he'll get attacked by his owner, so every moment of the experience that made him uncomfortable STILL does but he has the added stress of trying really, really hard to not show any emotion or he'll be attacked. So you basically create an anxious mess of a dog who, if he ever cannot hold it inside anymore, will release his emotion MUCH stronger than before because of the added stress he built up while being stressed by the possibility of your attack at any moment during the event.
Victoria changes the dog's MIND to change his behavior, she doesn't simply target the behavior. She finds the actual reason for the dog's behavior, not the made up one. If the dog bites during grooming then the dog needs to change his mind about grooming being unpleasant. Grooming will be paired with awesome things until the dog decides that grooming is fine and his behavior will change in response to his lack of fear of grooming. So the dog will not be stressed by fear of grooming or fear of attack from you for expressing himself, he'll LIKE grooming and be relaxed about the whole ordeal.
Plus I think it is disgusting that he thinks your dog should approach you with a lowered body and ears back flat, pure fear of what you'll do. He thinks a dog who walks normally with his ears up is being dominant over you and should be dominated until he walks in a "submissive" (fearful) manner. On a walk if the dog has his ears up he collar pops him until he walks the walk with his ears flat or mostly back, so the dog is in a constant state of stress or fear. How sad is that.
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springermomx3
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The trainer I use for my dogs says that as long as Cesar is on TV she will continue to get tons of new clients. Because these people watch him and apply his "techniques" on their dogs and then ruin their dogs.
Like someone else said Victorias techniques can be done at home. I do it all the time and my dogs have matured greatly because of her.
Like someone else said Victorias techniques can be done at home. I do it all the time and my dogs have matured greatly because of her.
There is a part of me, now out of curiosity, that wants to see his show...I have tried to watch it a few times before IMOTD came on but could never get into it, I have only seen a few minutes in the beginning of the show and then would get up to do something else. Guess I haven't missed much from not watching that one!
When IMOTD came on - I couldn't get away from the TV! When I am cleaning the house on the weekends they play reruns, and all cleaning comes to a hault...have learned to do laundry during that time!
When IMOTD came on - I couldn't get away from the TV! When I am cleaning the house on the weekends they play reruns, and all cleaning comes to a hault...have learned to do laundry during that time!
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JacksonsMommy
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I really don't think you can compare the two.
I feel like Victoria's show is more focused on basic training of dogs in your home and things that are fairly simple to learn how to do.
Cesar's show focuses more on dogs who are in dire need of rehabilitation. And most of his methods DO work and I don't think they're too harsh. You have to be able to put yourself in that mindset that he isin. Certain dogs need what he brings to the table and certain dogs may not need that much.
I think they're both very good trainers and can both bring a lot of good ideas and training tips to the table.
I feel like Victoria's show is more focused on basic training of dogs in your home and things that are fairly simple to learn how to do.
Cesar's show focuses more on dogs who are in dire need of rehabilitation. And most of his methods DO work and I don't think they're too harsh. You have to be able to put yourself in that mindset that he isin. Certain dogs need what he brings to the table and certain dogs may not need that much.
I think they're both very good trainers and can both bring a lot of good ideas and training tips to the table.
- Brittany
Guys,
All the positions in this developing debate have been voiced here several times, including in these two threads:
http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=2663
and
http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=2805
This is not the place to continue the exact same debate considering that none of the positions seem to have changed. Please read over those threads.
Thanks!
All the positions in this developing debate have been voiced here several times, including in these two threads:
http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=2663
and
http://www.victoriastilwell.com/phpBB2/ ... php?t=2805
This is not the place to continue the exact same debate considering that none of the positions seem to have changed. Please read over those threads.
Thanks!
BoardHost
I just watched his show for the first time last night... he used a shock collar to "train" a dog to get along with a cat... I dont' know about the rest of his methods but this one just doesn't seem right.JacksonsMommy wrote:I really don't think you can compare the two.
I think they're both very good trainers and can both bring a lot of good ideas and training tips to the table.
I'm going to go check out the other links boardhost posted.
~ Carol
Carly, Lab/poodle mix born Jan 12, 2009
Carly, Lab/poodle mix born Jan 12, 2009
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sj96skittles
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she's enfinity times better than ceaser millan. all ceaser talks about is u have 2 be alpha dog. u put him into a submissive possision and blablabla!!!!! we're not dogs we're humans. it's funny how he gets bitten then he just pushes the dog even more. doesnt he know the dog feels threatened?! watching dog whisperer makes me sick. i cant even get through 1 episode w/o changing channels. victoria's methods r 10000% better than ceaser's she knows more about dogs than ceaser does.
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sj96skittles
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