I can not believe it !

Discussion of Victoria's TV show, It's Me or the Dog.

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katowaggytail
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I can not believe it !

Post by katowaggytail » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:18 am

I just saw the episode about the cockers, one of whom was PTS later on.

Yes it was upseting, but, if my memory is correct, the family had tried all sorts of methods to stop the dog from biting... and they didn't work. I believe, and it was a long time ago that this epsode was aired in the UK, that the dog bit the child.

Bramble was PTS and buried in the family garden, a choice not taken lightly by anyone especially the family.

I do not believe that Victoria was incapacable, nor her advice wrong. The family came to their own descision.

The episode was not disgusting and IMO should have been shown, as it was here in the UK. Sometimes training, behavioural advice etc does not work for many reasons, and the only option is to have a dog PTS.

It doesn't make anyone less of an animal lover/make any one care less ... it was incredibly sad. My daughter and I discussed this whilst watching it and felt it was handled sensitively and with respect.

Not all outcomes are positive like everything else in this world. Not all endings are happy and rosey.

Fi

clairefoster
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Post by clairefoster » Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:01 pm

I agree with katowaggytail. And I'm pretty sure that the dog actually mauled the child (completley unprovoked) At the end of the day this is a real life TV show and sometimes decisions have to be made that aren't nice, and don't make for the comedy viewing that we more often see, but are neccessary.

I believe there were other proffessionals involved in advising the family not just victoria.
Unfortunately some times this is the best (but hardest) decision for a family to have to make.

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Post by emmabeth » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:06 pm

A huge part of handling, training and dealing with behavioural problems in dogs is knowing when enough is enough.

You may not like to see it, but euthanasia IS a very valid answer to insurmountable problems and a dog like Bramble who attacks for a reason humans cannot find to solve, is not a happy dog enjoying a relaxed, chilled out life.

In addition to the quality of life issues, sadly here in the UK, there are thousands of dogs without serious aggression problems, dying unwanted in dog pounds every week. This means the chances of finding a suitable home for a dog WITH a serious problem are extremely low, and again the quality of life for that dog has to be a huge consideration - is waiting in kennels, going out to homes and being returned for attacking someone, really a fair and good life for a busy little dog?

I do think it is right and VERY important to show people that sometimes a problem cannot be cured, sometimes there is not a 'happily ever after' and making that horrible decision is a part and parcel of owning a dog.

This sort of thing is EXACTLY what can happen if owning a dog is not taken seriously, if finding a well bred puppy or a correctly assessed rescue is not THE highest priority, if people go and buy a dog purely because they want one and dont consider the dogs needs... and it still can happen even when you DO consider all those things.

Life is not all sugar coated fairy tales and I think it would be very wrong to portray dog ownership as an easy, carefree, effortless thing.

andie
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I don't think that particular episode was shown in the USA

Post by andie » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:37 am



I'm almost glad I didn't see it.

katowaggytail
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Post by katowaggytail » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:14 am

Andie, it was a "good" episode to watch, honestly. Thought provoking and moving.

Life is not all rosy and this programe showed that - it was incredibly sad.

In the end, if I was in that situation, having tried everything then I would have chosen the same option. My daughter is very precious to me and will come before any animal.

We all have to make very tough choices in life and throught out life and this was one of them for that family.

Fi

Yoshi
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Post by Yoshi » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:00 pm

Even though I'm from the States, I saw this episode over the Internet. I'll admit I cried when I saw it. But I did feel that the family made the right decision for Bramble. The bottom line is that the attack was unprovoked. If it was the girl agitating the dog, it would've been a different story. And it wasn't just a bite, the girl was mauled. She was lucky that the injuries weren't worse. Yes, it's never an easy decision to have a dog pts. However, what if they let the dog go and his next attack was worse?

I think it's a shame that this episode will never be aired in the States because of the outcome. It's important to understand that there are two sides to the pet world: the positive and rewarding, as well as the difficult and heart-wrenching.

When I first began my research on dogs, I watched IMotD and Animal Cops. Not only did I want to learn how to train dogs, I wanted to learn how NEVER to treat one. Now that I am a dog owner, every time I watch Animal Cops I make a promise to myself never to let my Xavier end up like those poor dogs.

To be a good pet trainer/owner is to be well-rounded and ready for anything.

katowaggytail
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Post by katowaggytail » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:22 am

Yoshi, why won't it be shown in the US?

Yoshi
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Post by Yoshi » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:54 pm

If I remember correctly, this episode was from season 2. We're already seeing season 4 here. I don't believe that we will see this episode on Animal Planet because the dog had to be put down, i.e., it seems that only the positive outcomes make it over here.

...unless this one HAS been aired and I missed it :oops:

katowaggytail
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Post by katowaggytail » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:49 pm

They have a very odd outlook then, as life isn't like that. Wierd.

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Post by Mollysmom » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:57 pm

katowaggytail wrote:They have a very odd outlook then, as life isn't like that. Wierd.
You my dear are not the only Brit to have that opinion.
Television is exceptionally biased here. Worse yet... our culture is so polluted by knuckleheads who feel as if EVERYONE should feel the way they do.
________________________
On a more serious note

I do not condone PTS dogs who are truly rehabitable. However in cases where the dog has mauled or repeatably bitten people in a serious manner it is irresponsible dog ownership not to... Let me tell you all a story.

Growing up my neighbor was a State Trooper, he owned two beautiful, well adjusted, sweet and docile Rotties. I walked the two of them on occasion, they loved new people and had been very well trained in obedience as well as agility (seriously! they were terrible at it but loved it anyways!)
He and his wife were finally blessed with a child, a girl who was equally sweet and well adjusted. When Ella was 2 years old, Duke and Duchess turned on her, the two mauled her terribly... her mother was present and put herself between the dogs and her toddler and was equally mauled, the dogs bit her head, face and arms repeatedly... On hearing her shout her husband (the policeman) ran outside and was forced to shoot the two dogs with his sidearm to keep them from killing his wife and daughter.
Mind you, these two dogs had never exhibited poor behavior around the girl, and the two adults had owned them for 6 years prior to the incident.
Now, had this happened and the officer NOT shot his own two dogs... would anyone here think twice about putting the dogs down?

this is not a breed bash. I myself had a large male Rot at the time of the incident (Taz rest his soul) I've lived with AmPBT's and all manner of canine breeds. I do not know if it was something the owners could have prevented. However the Mother and Daughter both are scared physically and emotionally. I would personally choose my family over the dogs.
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Maxy24
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Post by Maxy24 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:18 pm

Sometimes dogs can't be fixed. Sometimes there is a mental problem, influenced by brain damage or brain chemistry problems that we do not have medicine to control. Sometimes it's the result of two aggressive dogs being bred, you cannot say genetics don't play a roll. Sometimes it's lack of socialization, abuse or extremely poor former training methods (suppressing the dog's warnings like growling by punishing him until he stopped warning and then he "attacked without warning"). Sometimes dogs with that last problem can be fixed but the amount of time it would take will put far too many people in danger, it would take years and how many people could be and most likely would be bit in that time? the dog would have to be locked away, what sort of life is that for the dog? Sometimes putting a dog down is the best option. trainers who claim they can fix any dog no matter what often use punishment when the dog shows aggression but it's important to remember those dogs are feeling the exact same way about what they were being aggressive towards they are just not showing it (because they were punished for that) and when they are pushed to that level of anger that they would have bit before, they will still bite but this time nobody knows they were about to snap. So don't think Victoria failed because another trainer may have been able to punish the dog until he stopped, in the end that dog is far more dangerous because he is hiding the signs he is upset but will still attack when pushed too far.

I did not see the episode though so do not know what happened with this dog.

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Post by Cheetah » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:14 pm

I saw this episode, so it was aired in the US. It was really sad, but once a dog mauls a child, I don't think the owners are left with a lot of options. I know here, the dog would usually be required to be put down if it caused that much damage to a person.
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Post by Mattie » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:09 am

Maxy24 wrote:Sometimes it's lack of socialization, abuse or extremely poor former training methods (suppressing the dog's warnings like growling by punishing him until he stopped warning and then he "attacked without warning"). Sometimes dogs with that last problem can be fixed but the amount of time it would take will put far too many people in danger, it would take years and how many people could be and most likely would be bit in that time? the dog would have to be locked away, what sort of life is that for the dog?
Having turned a dog round like this they don't have to be locked away, if I had done that Joe would never have recovered and become a normal, or as normal has he can be, dog again.

They have to be socialised but it isn't easy, you have to keep both other people, especially children and the dog safe It is easier with a small dog than a large one because you can scoop up a small dog and take them out of harms way, you can't with a big dog.

I didn't take Joe on knowing he had this problem, I took him away from a situation that would have ended in him being pts soon. My intention was to rehome him but after I got him home I realised he wasn't fit to rehome so stayed.
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Post by Yoshi » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:51 pm

Cheetah wrote:I saw this episode, so it was aired in the US.
How long ago did you see it? I'm curious to know, now that I've made an idiot out of myself... :oops:

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Post by animallover » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:01 pm

Cheetah wrote:I saw this episode, so it was aired in the US. It was really sad, but once a dog mauls a child, I don't think the owners are left with a lot of options. I know here, the dog would usually be required to be put down if it caused that much damage to a person.
I live in the states and I had to look it up on the internet. Either I saw the season too late, or it never aired where I live.
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