Presa Canario Episode

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Wicket
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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by Wicket » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:21 am

abndogos wrote: See my earlier post on +P/-R
I'm referencing your quote so you can explain it to me. In order to categorized as -R, there must be some unpleasantness involved agreed or else the dog won't throw behaviors to avoid the irritant. Once the dog does the right behavior, the irritant is removed, hence -R. Agreed?
I stated that Casper was walking around stiff legged and tail up because he felt insecure with the new situation because ERIC had not asserted himself as pack leader tto Casper, hence Casper was ready to step up to the plate IF NEED BE since Casper felt Eric was not in control of the situation.
So Casper was just waiting to assert himself? So you think there's was no pack leader in their relationship then? *more confused why you brought up social status aka dominance*
See, here is where the problem lies...when someone like myself mentions "assert dominance" you AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME we are talking about PHYSICALLY DOMINANTING a dog. Wolves don't phycially dominate other pack members, they rule by body language, as well as the alpha eats first, the alpha says when it is time to hunt,sleep,eat, reproduce, etc. One of the ways of achieving "dominance" over your dog is the NILIF method.
Treating a dog as a mini-wolf is just as bad as humanizing it. While the dog displays juvenile wolf characteristics, they are not behaviorally the same. Obviously, the wolf has a higher drive, wants to hunt, skittish around humans, etc. I'm not making the assumptions here, you are. Nowhere in my comments have I ever suggested that to dominate equates to physically dominating. I know about the NILIF method. Have you read Nicole Wilde's posts?

Ends Part 1 since I can't embed more than 3 quotes within each other.
Last edited by Wicket on Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:34 am, edited 4 times in total.

Wicket
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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by Wicket » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:26 am

Part 2:
OK, I see you got that "misinformation" from that link on the "dominance myths," LMAO.
Nope, I've read both sides. Thank you. :)
OK, let me try to break this one down for you to better understand. You are correct in saying most dogs to not WANT to be pack leader, they look to us humans to be the boss(I do believe,however, that there are dogs that are just born as genetic "alphas" and some breeds are specifically bred for that trait,which goes back to the DS and BM that I spoke of).
So the external relationship between two unique individuals (dog and person) can be inherently breed now, eh? That's not even counting the numerous environmental factors, such as life experiences for both, previous histories, etc. I do agree that some dogs are more independent and need more guidelines. If the "alpha gene" existed, there would be no point in training since that's a biological factor that cannot be changed or modified; it would be genetic pre-determinism.
Things that WE HUMANS DO(from when the dog is young) such as allowing the dog to pull on the leash, allowing it on the furniture, allowing it to dictate to us when it gets affection, when it gets fed, etc, CAN EVENTUALLY lead to a "dominance struggle" between dog and human. Dogs don't automatically one day just "assert themselves" by pulling on leash when they never did it before or jumping on the couch when they have never been allowed on it before. We are "allowing" our dog to be pack leader, where some, especially intact males, will want to keep that status(as they mature).They will now growl at us when we try to now remove them from the couch they are on, etc. This is the point where mosyt trainers are contacted because their once loveable dog is becoming a growling terror.
You've just expanded on what I said before: dogs don't want to be pack leaders, but eventually there's a pack leader struggle because dogs assert themselves as pack leaders when they really don't want to be pack leaders, waiting for the humans do it but humans didn't by letting them that frakkin' couch when they were pups and had no control over the situation. Geez!

Let's deal with it as it is: dogs needs to be trained and human needs to have to tools to communicate what they need from the dog. Nothing in Life is for Free gets the dog back to being trained and uses the Premack principle to get the human wants. Nothing here about social status.

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by Wicket » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:28 am

Part 3:
IMHO, this thing about the "dominance myth" is an attempt to take the blame off us humans(see most humans dont like being wrong in the first place) for what we actually caused in the first place, but not being "gentle leaders" to our dogs.
No, it isn't. The most thing disliked about dominance theory is that it anthropomorphizes the dog, putting human attributes on the dog. Instead of the dog being concerned about a highly abstract concept such as status, the dog is likely untrained, not properly trained, not getting its needs met, sick/ill, environmental factors, etc. Most of which the owner has control over. As agility trainer says, "handler motion drives dog motion." There's no pass the buck here.
Again, I will repeat, being a "pack leader" or your dogs "alpha"(one and the same) DOES NOT HAVE TO MEAN PHYSICALLY DOING SO. I again will refer to the NILIF method.
*sigh* Since you already presumed to know the regulars' dogs' histories, what +PR trainers are thinking, etc., I'm telling you now that I don't fit into your strawman of a +PR person. I've read 3 Mr. Millan books, posted on and off on his forum, watched his T.V. show, etc. If you stopped presuming what I know and don't know, we must actually have a real dialogue here instead talking past each other. Capeche?

When these breeds aren't worked like they are supposed to, or aren't given outlets for these natural drives, can become insecure(they dont know what to do with themselves), and can redirect their "dominance" on other things, ie their owners, other dogs, animals, etc. It's called "displacement."
I can understand how a dog can re-direct their drive/frustration towards another thing, but not social status.

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by Wicket » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:30 am

Have you ever been bit by a dog that wanted to fight another dog, but it couldn't get to that dog, so out fo frustration, you get bit instead? I watch my dogo all the time get so frustrated when he misses catching a squirrel that he bites tree branches and rips them up, or bites the grass and rips up clumps of the lawn, lol. Then you have the dog fighting breeds, APBT's, Tosa Inus, Presas, Dogos, etc, that when they go into that "red zone" against another dog, there isn't a harsh enough correction in the world, nor a +R that will stop that dog. You have to know how to keep that dog from going into that red zone and read the dog before it gets to that point and redirect the dog.
A +R trainer would say not to put the dog in the situation in the first place unless he has the skills to cope with it. If there's that much adrenaline in that situation and it's not avoided, the dog is being set up for failure.
Now, I am not talking the fear aggression you see that a lot of dogs(non fighting breeds) have, but true dominance aggression. That dog WANTS to fight and win because of the adrenalin rush they get...and actually it doesn't have to be just dog/dog aggression, it can be dog/animal or even dog/human.
Define dominance aggression. A well known veterinary behaviorist, Nicholas Dodman, defines as owner-redirected aggression since dominance is typically defined between a dog and human. In that situation, I blame adrenaline, not social status.
That is what they are bred for(or we wouldn't have the KNPV or police dogs we do). DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT CONDONE OR AGREE WITH DOG/DOG FIGHTING AT ALL!!! I needed to use them,though, as examples of "dominance" and why these breeds are more "dominant" than others in order to answer Mattie's questions.
How do you define "dominance" specifically?
edited to add: dominance doesn't JUST have to do with being "pack leader" per se, none of what I have mentioned is "black or white" but many many shades of grey and is very complex, especially in the breeds that were bred SPECIFICALLY TO BE DOMINANT.
[/quote]
Mind expanding on these shades of grey?

I'll deal with the your other comments later when I have more time.

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by nightsrainfall » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:43 am

jiml wrote:It should also be noted that Dr.Mech has stated the word alpha is certainly applicable when wolves are put together in a group that is outside its immediate family. as they develop a pecking order.
This is true with lions, chimps, orangutans, elephants, meerkats, prairie dogs... I'm not sure on dolphins or any water-based animals actually or birds.... I would dare to say humans tend to develop a "pecking" order but this order tends to be rearranged dependent upon who you are talking to, but don't tell that to any of my project groups! :-)
jiml wrote:Throw the word dominance or pack in there and all hell brakes loose.

Also by definition NILF is exerting dominance as you are controlling resources.
Agreed, thus why I'm starting to dislike the use of the word "Dominance" - there are too many associations with it for it to be a useful description. I think using other descriptions, synonyms for what we mean, and just avoiding a heavy use of it will clear up a lot of communication and understanding. Plus it's good practice for us, because re-defining or explaining items in other words almost always expands our own knowledge and understanding as we search for alternatives and descriptions. (I'm honestly not very good at re-defining things, I tend to ramble because I can't tell if I'm saying it right if I'm not using the word I was taught, which just goes to show I have more to learn, lol.)
abndogos wrote:Easilyconfused, I am curious if you have "worked with" any of the breeds I have mentioned, since most are illegal in the UK, except I think the Dutch Shepherd and Belgium Malinois(and not show line dogs, I mean real deal KNPV lines). I ask, because I am curious as to how you are going to "positively motivate" a dog such as a Dogo Argentino, that will laugh at your chicken treat when it can go after a live animal to "quench its drives" instead, or even a Dutchie that is going to rather go bite the guy in a suit over your chicken bait any day of the week. How do you teach a police/KNPV dog to "out" on command when it is on the bite and is high in fight drive???? Oh, have to add, if a PPD/PSD dog will out over a piece of chicken, then it would be considered a cull and would be scratched from that training program.
I've done work with what you consider to be "Dominate" breeds. I volunteer at a shelter were we get those "Red-Zone" dogs in, and I am usually one of two volunteers who can take them out (rest are staff members, because these dogs will put you in the hospital if they get your leg when going for another dog, or redirect their energy to you). I have also assisted with some HIGH drive search and rescue dogs who would fall under your definition of "Dominate", not because the breeds are your definition of "dominate" breeds, but because you stated that high drive, high prey drive, and working dogs are "dominate". On top of that I had the chance to work with police dogs because an old supervisor of mine was a police dog trainer - he's one of the reasons I do not run from a dog unless I know I can in some building really quickly, and even then the dogs he had definitely broke doors and got in windows... Again you call these dogs "dominate".

Your "dominate" dogs are my favorite types of breeds, but I don't consider them dominate. I consider them to be independent, highly driven (maybe One-track-mind at times), assertive, intelligent, and hard workers. These are the characteristics that often cause 'difficulties' when owned because they often go against the stereotypes we have given dogs (always listening to humans, attached to us, not figuring things out for themselves, not going after what they want, not working/being-active on their own).

For high drive dogs, you can have two types. Those who learn that thinking while being driven is a good thing, and those who just don't think when they are being mentally driven (by something). Police dogs who don't think won't make it through the program. The bite is the reward for listening, there also sometimes is a special ball or toy that's assocated with the training of running someone down. (It has a scent on it, so you can't duplicate it). The dog learns if it doesn't listen, at a puppy, the game doesn't go, but if it does the high drive biting and chasing game does. It's a high energy training that I'm not comfortable to do yet personally by myself. However in police dogs, basically the game and reward turns into biting specific humans, or tracking drug scents and getting to play.

I do challenge you to reword and reduce your use of dominate. I think it is hindering you in getting your point across. I do agree some dogs are more difficult for some people to handle, thus they may seem dominate. However my supervisor who trains police dogs, does not describe them as dominate but Hard Working, lol!
- Anna

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~ Roger A. Caras

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by abndogos » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:20 am

I agree, Anna, I may be incorrectly using the term dominant to describe too many things that I am trying to get across. Hard to break away from old terms that you have used for so long. I also think it is hard for people that haven't experienced these breeds to truly understand what I am trying to convey. Those that live in the UK obviously arent going to understand because these breeds are illegal there. I have 2 Dogo Argentinos which are the epitome of "dominant" though, LOL. Anyways, getting ready for work, got 2 12 hour shifts ahead of me, so wont be on much.

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by jiml » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:38 am

getting off base a little but Id like to steer some to this study.

http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokserv?i ... 370272.pdf

Mike Ellis talks about it briefly at 3:50 here http://www.youtube.com/user/leerburg#p/ ... DZqVpGVy60

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by jacksdad » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:33 am

abndogos wrote: I have 2 Dogo Argentinos which are the epitome of "dominant" though, LOL. Anyways, getting ready for work...
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" [Inigo Montoya, princess bride]

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by Noobs » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:53 am

I think this discussion can be worthwhile as long as the tone doesn't get too adversarial (eg "And what kind of dogs do YOU train?"). But I think the bottom line is that this forum is out to help mostly normal dog owners who have dogs with fear problems or who lack manners. If you're training police dogs and self-defense type dogs, you're probably not on this forum looking for advice. Moreover, the bottom line is that it is against forum rules to advocate the use of aversives such as prong and shock collars. So I know I'm not a mod but the tone of some of the posts is still troublesome to me and I just needed to say it.

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by jiml » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:30 pm

Moreover, the bottom line is that it is against forum rules to advocate the use of aversives such as prong and shock collars. So I know I'm not a mod but the tone of some of the posts is still troublesome to me and I just needed to say it.>>>>>

I know I did not directly advocate anything. However I think the discussion absolutely belongs here. It pertains to the episode in question and a featured trainer.

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by abndogos » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:00 pm

1 dom·i·nant definition
Pronunciation: /-nənt/
Function: adj
1 : exerting forcefulness or having dominance in a social hierarchy 2 : being the one of a pair of bodily structures that is the more effective or predominant in action dominant eye>
3 : of, relating to, or exerting genetic dominance
dom·i·nant·ly Function: adv


2 dominant definition
Function: n
1 : a dominant genetic character or factor
2 : a dominant individual in a social hierarchy
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2007 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Cite This Source
dominant dom·i·nant (dŏm'ə-nənt)
adj.

1.Exercising the most influence or control.

2.Of, relating to, or being an allele that produces the same phenotypic effect whether inherited with a homozygous or heterozygous allele.

n.
1.A dominant allele or trait.

2.An organism having a dominant trait.

The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Cite This Source

My dogo argentinos ARE dominant dogs, and that is the correct term for them. They have learned,however, that me and my husband are their boss and they will roll over submissively for us and a few they know. However, strangers would not be able to come over and hug them, nor would they roll over for a stranger. They do not like a strange hand coming over their heads, nor will they tolerate a stranger coming down to their level and staring them in the eyes(a challenge in dog language). I posted on this forum since there was talk of my trainer and his methods as well as the fact that I try to place myself out there for people with dogs such as mine or like Casper, since they are more difficult to deal with. Plus, being the fact that AKC is recognizing more of these types of breeds, you will see more people having problems with these breeds when they attempt to "humanize" them, and the damage these breeds can cause is way worse than most of you have ever seen. When you see a skull of a 250+lb boar with its skull full of holes from a dogo, you will understand their power, same with a presa.

will post more later. at work and getting busy

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by jacksdad » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:26 pm

abndogos wrote:1 dom·i·nant definition
Pronunciation: /-nənt/
Function: adj
1 : exerting forcefulness or having dominance in a social hierarchy 2 : being the one of a pair of bodily structures that is the more effective or predominant in action dominant eye>
3 : of, relating to, or exerting genetic dominance
dom·i·nant·ly Function: adv


2 dominant definition
Function: n
1 : a dominant genetic character or factor
2 : a dominant individual in a social hierarchy
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2007 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Cite This Source
dominant dom·i·nant (dŏm'ə-nənt)
adj.

1.Exercising the most influence or control.

2.Of, relating to, or being an allele that produces the same phenotypic effect whether inherited with a homozygous or heterozygous allele.

n.
1.A dominant allele or trait.

2.An organism having a dominant trait.

The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Cite This Source
and there in lies one of the HUGE problems with people using the word dominance to describe dog behavior. They use the wrong definition.
Excerpt from Patricia McConnell's blog here > http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/th ... -dominance

First of all, it would be good to start with a definition. The simple definition of ‘dominance,’ as the term is used by the general public is something like: “control or command over others.” However, (and this is a huge “however”) that is NOT the definition as the term is used by people who study animal behavior, the ones who first coined the term to describe a certain kind of social relationship in non-human animals. In ethological terms, “dominance” refers to “priority access to a preferred, limited resource“. In other words, if there’s only one really great table open at a restaurant, who is going to get it? You, or the famous actress standing beside you?
abndogos wrote: My dogo argentinos ARE dominant dogs, and that is the correct term for them. They have learned,however, that me and my husband are their boss and they will roll over submissively for us and a few they know. However, strangers would not be able to come over and hug them, nor would they roll over for a stranger. They do not like a strange hand coming over their heads, nor will they tolerate a stranger coming down to their level and staring them in the eyes(a challenge in dog language). I posted on this forum since there was talk of my trainer and his methods as well as the fact that I try to place myself out there for people with dogs such as mine or like Casper, since they are more difficult to deal with. Plus, being the fact that AKC is recognizing more of these types of breeds, you will see more people having problems with these breeds when they attempt to "humanize" them, and the damage these breeds can cause is way worse than most of you have ever seen. When you see a skull of a 250+lb boar with its skull full of holes from a dogo, you will understand their power, same with a presa.

will post more later. at work and getting busy
you do realize that isn't anything overly special, that is fairly normal dog behavior...

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by nightsrainfall » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:49 pm

A good number of those definitions are things that I wouldn't use. I do admit working dogs, "big-game" dogs, high-drive dogs, one-dog dogs, anti-social (and non-tolerate), and extremely stubborn/bull-headed dogs are all ones I am cautious of. Not because I see them as "dominate" by nature (if it's dog vs human, dog loses - it is not the dominate gene/species, we will kill them - we do more than they us.), but because I know they can out match me if I am not careful. A driven dog is certainly (at times) thinking faster than I am but only focused on what they want, or are going for. A "big-game" dog won't have problems taken-down a human, so to push that limit would be not the smartest (in my opinion). Anti-social and untolerate of strangers do not like others around them, and asking them to bare with it even makes people upset, and I rather not have to worry about that with a dog who uses their teeth to communicate.

Because I know their traits, I have the upper hand. I do agree, a lot of people do not know how to handle these dogs. They get the cute lab puppy and realize it's a high drive, high energy... then if that cute puppy ends up be a larger-than-normal lab, and they didn't really start training early, that dog IS domineering to them. Not because of the dog so much, than the people. To be dominate, you must have something or someone below you. There has to be that recessive gene, the lower group in the "hiericy" etc.

It's not dogs who make themselves "dominate" over people, it's the people in my opinion. For dogs are being dogs. They are being the dogs that they are to be (genetics) or learned to be (environment). To me, knowing how to interact with them properly makes most of the "dominate" definitions invalid, thus why training tools, understanding, ethology, etc are important for us to learn and constructively criticize, so that we can further or abilities. (It's a science! kinda, lol). :-)

I do prefer +R training because I feel that if applied appropriately to every unique situation (assuming the situation was hopefully investigated and observed, or 'controlled'), it works very well for all dogs, including those who often end up being called dominate because they do require that extra knowledge, experience, or understanding. However the more we learn, the less 'dominating' the dogs become... Not because the dogs are changing, but because we are. :-)

(I fully admit. There are some dogs who I cannot work with alone because they will "dominate" me, not because of them, but because I don't really have the knowledge for that mental wiring, power, or drive. I, however, know better than to get into that situation purposely. Accidentally though... I'm really hoping it doesn't ever happen. )
- Anna

"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole."
~ Roger A. Caras

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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by abndogos » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:58 pm

LOL, incorrect definition according to who?
THis first link is a great article!
http://shibashake.com/dog/the-dominant- ... ce-in-dogs

Taming the Dominant Dog

by Robin Kovary






A dominant dog knows what he wants, and sets out to get it, any way he can.
He's got charm, lots of it. When that doesn't work, he's got persistence with a capital "P." And when all else fails him, he's got attitude. There is hope, however!

By following the suggestions below, you can help turn your hard-to handle pooch into a wonderful, responsive and loving canine.


Will The Real ALPHA Please Stand Up!

The term Alpha refers to the leader of any given pack (family or group). Dogs which fancy themselves as the Alpha are generally pushy, manipulative, demanding and dominant. They like to call the shots in any relationship, and expect others to follow their lead. If your dog acts like the dominant member of your pack, you'd be wise to begin taking steps to turn your relationship around. [NOTE: This is NOT meant to suggest that one should treat their dog harshly to accomplish this result!]

It's important to note that the terms dominant and aggressive are not synonymous, although the two traits often overlap. While a dominant dog likes to control their pack, the aggressive dog takes it one step further, using threats and/or actual aggression to gain and keep control.

Interestingly, a dog's dominance level may be high in relationship to people while quite low with other dogs, or visa-versa. Then there are those dogs who tend to be dominant (or submissive) with both people and other dogs.


Your Role As The Pack Leader

Hopefully, your dog sees you as his or her pack leader ("Alpha"). Being the "Alpha" does not mean acting like an ogre with your dog. In fact it's your responsibility as a pack leader to treat your dog humanely and fairly, and to protect him from physical and emotional harm. Being an effective pack leader means being authoritive without being harsh, gentle and kind without being over-permissive. Like a good parent, being "Alpha" means combining the best traits of a guardian, teacher, ally, friend and benevolent leader.


Eliminate Games Which Encourage Aggressive Behavior

If you are a novice dog owner with a dominant puppy or dog, games which encourage team work and are non-adversarial in nature, are usually best. Fetch is a good example of a game where your dog is taught, in play, to work with, and for, rather than against you.

Playing games (such as Tug-O-War) that pit a dominant puppy or dog's strength against yours may encourage rowdy or aggressive behavior, especially if the puppy initiates the game and frequently "wins" the game (ends up with the toy). Allowing this to happen can inadvertently teach your puppy some lessons he could do without, such as the power of his teeth, that he' s stronger than you, and in encounters against you that he's likely to win (i.e. when for example you are trying to remove chicken bones from his mouth).

NOTE: One can minimize the behavioral consequences of playing Tug-O-War by carefully following these steps:


a) You should be the one to initiate the game.

b) Make sure your puppy or dog earns the game by responding to a simple command (i.e.: "Sit", "Down":, "Look", etc.).

c) Only use an appropriate intermediate object to play tug with (such as a tug toy).

d) Never use your hands to rough-play with your puppy or dog.

e) If your puppy or dog misses the toy and accidentally (or intentionally) nips your hand, say a firm "Oww!", and end the game abruptly (then put him in a one-minute Down-Stay).

f) Teach your puppy/dog a verbal command and hand signal to stop the game instantly (and only consider playing TUG-O-WAR if you can stop the game "on a dime" at any time).

g) You should "win" the game (end up with the toy, and put it away) most of the time.



Begin Training Early

If you've got a dominant puppy, begin functional obedience training early (ideally when he's around 10 to 14 weeks old), before bad habits have had a chance to take hold. Functional commands include: Sit-Stay, Down-Stay, Stand-Stay, Heel, Let's go, Wait, Come, Corner (in elevators), Go to place, Go to your room (crate), Say hello, Take it (treat or toy), Leave it (anything or anyone you don't want your puppy to approach at that moment), and Drop it.

One especially important exercise to teach a dominant puppy or dog is the Down-Stay, as it will help establish yourself as his leader. In most cases, I recommend teaching the Down command using a lure and reward method. Once your dog knows the command well, should he refuse to comply, gently place him into a down position and praise. [NOTE: If your dog is in any way aggressive do NOT try this yourself! Only an experienced trainer or behaviorist has the know-how necessary to train an aggressive dog safely.]

Using positive, motivational methods is essential, as a gentle training approach teaches the puppy trust -- an essential ingredient in any good relationship.


Keep Dominant Dogs Off Furniture

Territories carry great significance to a dog. If your dog is dominant or difficult to handle, it must be made clear to him that your furniture belongs to you, not your dog, which means he shouldn't be allowed on it. This is especially true of your bed.

Your puppy should consider his being allowed up on your sofa or bed a privilege not a right; and only responsive, well-behaved, mild-mannered (and of course fully housetrained) dogs should ever be allowed up on furniture, and then only if the owner approves.


Doorways and Thresholds

Pack leaders lead packs ! Literally and figuratively ! Doorways and other thresholds signify territories, which means that if you and your dog both come to a doorway simultaneously, you should enter or exit ahead of your dog. Allowing a dominant dog to dash through ahead of you sends him the wrong message.

Owners of dominant dogs should also prevent their dogs from blocking doorways. Dominant dogs frequently control access-ways (such as doorways) throughout the house by laying across them, and expecting household members to walk around them.

Another significant "territory" is you. If your dog attempts to mount you, or treats you like a human exercise mat when you're sitting or laying down, that doesn't say much for his respect for you. Neither "activity" should be permitted.


Make Sure He Receives Lots Of Outdoor Exercise

A well-exercised dog is a happier, healthier, better-behaved dog. A lack of active physical exercise and stimulation often leads to a hyperactive, destructive, difficult dog. City and suburban dogs who receive insufficient outlets for their energy are usually more needy of constant attention indoors (and therefore may resort to misbehaving to get that attention).

While your dog should not be allowed to show rough or rowdy behavior towards you (or other innocent people), assuming your dog isn't dog-aggressive, he should be allowed to "rough 'n' tumble" with other compatible dogs as long as this rowdy play doesn't overwhelm either dog, or escalate into aggressive behavior.


Hierarchy and Feeding Order

In the world of dogs and wolves, pack leaders eat first. Therefore, if your dog is dominant by nature, it is important that you control the order of who gets fed first.

If you and your dog eat around the same times of day, eat your meal prior to giving him his meal. (Generally speaking adult dogs should be fed two meals a day, while puppies should be fed 3-4 meals a day depending on their age).

Prior to feeding your dog, leash your dog, tell him to sit, fill his food bowl and place his bowl on the floor a few feet in front of him. Have him sit for about 10 to 30 seconds prior to releasing him to eat. This helps strengthen his sit-stay, and reinforces your position as the leader of the pack.

If your puppy or dog is especially dominant, do not offer him treats and tidbits freely throughout the day as a gesture of affection. Only offer him treats if your trainer or animal behaviorist recommends that you incorporate them when obedience training, doing food bowl aggression-proofing exercises, house training, or as part of a behavior modification program. In general, treats, praise and enjoyable interactive contact (petting, playing, affection) should be "earned" by teaching your dog what you want (by issuing basic commands such as "Sit" or "Down"), then using both treats and "life rewards" to reinforce desirable behaviors.


Handle and Groom Your Puppy Frequently

If you have a dominant puppy, teach him to accept being handled, gently restrained and groomed on a regular basis. Gently brush the undersides of his legs and tail, and around his head, ears and neck, rewarding him with praise and a treat during each successful grooming session.


Have Him Earn Your Affection and Attention

Dominant dogs can be especially insistent and pushy. If your dog usually initiates activities or physical interaction, insists that you pet or play with him regardless of what your doing at the time, and he won't take "No" for an answer, he's probably a dominant dog, or at least has tendencies in that direction.

If you have a dominant dog who frequently demands your attention by jumping up or pawing at you, have him earn your attention and affection by having him do a brief sit-stay or down-stay first. For example, a sit for a pat (or any pleasant physical contact, positive attention or interaction). This little exchange helps create and maintain a reciprocal relationship. This way your dog is getting the love and affection he craves, but on your terms.

Note: Most dogs enjoy (and certainly deserve) lots of affection and attention. If however, you have an especially dominant dog (or a dog who is aggressive towards you), it's important to note that lots of kissing, doting, petting, whining, and "baby talk", may be inadvertantly signaling to their dominant dog that they too believe that he's king of the household.


Final Note:

It is also important however, that in the process of being (or establishing oneself as) the leader of the pack, the whole issue of "dominance" is not overblown, because if misinterpreted, it can easily become an excuse for abuse. Unfortunately, some dog owners and trainers use the excuse of maintaining dominance as justification for acting like tyrants towards their dogs.


Recommended Books, Booklets & Videos

AlphaBetize Yourself (Booklet)
Author: Terry Ryan

The Dominant Dog (Video)
John Rogerson
Contact: Cheryl L. Trotter
(713)579-7131

How To Be The Leader Of The Pack
Author: Patricia B. McConnell, PhD
(Dog's Best Friend)
(608)767-2435


http://leerburg.com/dominac2.htm



Dominant Behavior in Dogs






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Just as in the human world, some dogs are naturally more dominant than others. This behavior can be influenced by factors such as how a dog is raised, but from the time puppies are just a couple of weeks old, dominant traits can be recognized.

Dominant behavior isn’t necessarily a “bad” thing, but it is something that must be managed before it gets out of control. First, it is important to understand that there is a huge difference between a dominant dog and an aggressive dog. While a dominant dog wants to be in charge (be the leader of the pack), an aggressive dog wants to do harm to other animals or to people. A dominant dog is not necessarily a dangerous dog, but it is important to recognize, understand and tame his dominant behavior. The dog must understand that YOU are the leader of the pack and that HE is a follower. A dog that is dominant is not always aggressive. If you are unsure about where your dog fits, get the advice of an expert, such as a vet or a professional dog trainer.

In the dog world, there is a social structure based on ranking, starting with the leader of the pack on down. Some dogs have no desire to be the leader of the pack while others are willing to fight their way to the top. In your household, a dominant dog may want to be the leader, not only of other animals in the house, but of you as well.

Dominant dogs can be large or small, and are found in every breed. There are degrees of dominance. Some dogs will be happy being the leaders of the other animals in the house while submitting to you. Other dogs will keep vying for power until they think that you are submissive to them.

Many dog owners do not even recognize that their dog is displaying dominant behavior as most of these behaviors are in no way violent. It’s very important to learn the traits of a dominant dog, so that you can recognize if you have one. You may be living with a dominant dog right now and not even realize it. Learning the behaviors of a dominant dog is an important step in helping your dog become submissive to you and other family members.

Below are some behaviors often found in dominant dogs.

• The dog will try to push through a door before you. He will knock you out of the way to get outside first.
• The dog will try to prevent you from petting him on the top of his head.
• The dog will attempt to move you out the way when sitting or laying with you.
• While playing, the dog will growl or bark at you.
• The dog will not release food or toys when you command him to do so.
• When the dog wants something that you have, such as a treat or toy, he will bark at you until you give it to him.
• The dog will jump on the furniture before you have given your permission.
• The dog will not obey basic commands such as “no”, “sit”, or “get down”.
• Instead of obeying when you give a command, the dog may try to begin to play.
• The dog will mark your personal items, such as clothing or shoes.
• The dog will mouth you. Even during play this is a dominant behavior.

The above list includes some examples of dominant (NOT aggressive) behavior, but is not an exhaustive list. If your dog displays any of the above behaviors, he may be dominant. Again, it’s not necessarily a bad thing, just something that must be managed.

You have to take control back from your dog. He must know that YOU are the leader of the pack, and that he is a follower. The techniques you use to accomplish this should never be physical, and should not put the dog in a position where he feels the need to become aggressive.

The first step in taking back control from a dominant dog is basic obedience training. This training is, of course, a good idea for ALL dogs, but is particularly necessary with a dominant dog. In addition to basic obedience classes, below are some tips to help you reestablish your role as leader of the pack. None of these tips should be applied with anger towards your dog. Do everything in a calm, non-confrontational manner.

• Recognize one of your dog’s favorite places. This could be his bed or a favorite chair etc…Stand in that place for a couple of minutes many times during the week.
• Do not pet your dominant dog unless he has done something, such as obeying your command, to earn your attention.
• If you play games with your dog, especially a game with a clear winner, such as tug of war, YOU must always be the final winner.
• Eat before you feed your dog, and make sure that the dog sees that you are eating first.
• Do not allow your dog on the furniture without permission. Also, the dog should get off of the furniture on command. If he doesn’t, pull the dog off, but do not use unnecessary roughness.
• If your dog sleeps in your bed, move him to the floor or to a dog bed in your room. Or, move him from the bedroom completely.

Again, DOMINANCE IS NOT AGGRESSION. The tips here will only work with a dominant dog, not an aggressive one. If you think that your dog is going to harm you or another person or animal, it’s important to seek professional help right away.

A dog that thinks he is the leader of the pack is not going become to submissive to you in one day. You must be consistent in your training to reestablish your dominance. As long as you are consistent, you will soon be viewed as the leader of the family by your dominant dog. Rather than being a negative thing, this will help your dog to feel more secure as he will be crystal clear about where he stands within the family.

abndogos
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Re: Presa Canario Episode

Post by abndogos » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:07 pm

the first article I linked I thought I'd post also

The Dominant Dog – Dealing with Dominance in Dogs



What is a dominant dog?

Some people attribute all problem dog behaviors to “dominance”, while others do not want to use the “dominant dog” label at all. The truth, as always, is somewhere in-between.

It is useful to recognize dominant behaviors in your dog so that you can better manage him, keep him safe, and set him up for success. Refusing to use the word dominance , or denying its existence in dogs is unhelpful.

Any pack animal, including humans and dogs, have to deal with dominance issues because it is a part of pack dynamics.

Similarly, trying to explain everything away by using the dominant dog label or excuse is also unhelpful. To really fix a problem, we must fully understand it, and correctly identify its source. For example, a dog may show aggression, because of dominance. However, dog aggression can also be the result of fear, stress, play, curiosity, boredom, or something else.




Dominant Dog - Dealing with Dominance in Dogs.


Dog Dominance




Dog Dominance - Dominance, is a fluid concept.

Dominance, is a fluid concept

.

Dogs are not dominant all of the time.

For example, many dogs will show greater dominance when they are on home turf, or when their owner is around. Under different circumstances, these same dogs will act in a less dominant fashion, or may even become submissive.

Observe your dog carefully, and identify when he is more likely to show dominance, and why.




Dominant Dog - Dogs are not dominant all of the time.

Dominance is a relative concept

.

My Shiba Inu, for example, is more dominant than most dogs I have owned. He challenges me more frequently, and is constantly testing his boundaries. He has a dominant body posture, and he will not back down when challenged by other dogs.

My Siberian Husky, is a more submissive dog. She usually stops doing whatever she is doing when I tell her to. She very quickly backs down, and uses submissive body language, when challenged by other dogs.




Dominant Dog - Dominance is a relative concept.


What is a Dominant Dog?




What is a Dominant Dog?




A dominant dog challenges me more frequently, and is constantly testing his boundaries.
1.A dominant dog challenges you more frequently and is constantly testing his boundaries. My Shiba Inu is always testing to see if particular rules (no getting on furniture, no humping other dogs) still hold true.
2.A dominant dog is more likely to fight when challenged. My Shiba Inu likes playing with other dogs, but he generally does not get along with dogs who try to dominate him. When challenged, he will not back down, and this can result in a dog fight.
3.A dominant dog will frequently respond with aggression when frustrated; and will likely redirect that aggression onto you if you try and stop him.




A dominant dog is more likely to fight when challenged.


Dealing with a Dominant Dog




Dealing with a Dominant Dog.




1. A dominant dog needs a calm and assertive pack leader.

Anger and shouting at your dog will only worsen his behavior. Fear and uncertainty will cause him to become even more dominant.

The best way to deal with a dominant dog is to remain calm, and firmly remove him from the environment or object that is causing him to act out.

2. Contrary to common belief, physical force or physical corrections is NOT a good way to deal with dominant dogs.

If not perfectly executed (with perfect timing, force, and technique), a physical correction may further frustrate your dominant dog, and cause him to get even more aggressive.

Instead, stay calm, keep physical interactions to a minimum, and quickly leave the stressful situation. Using physical force against a dominant dog may end up teaching him the wrong lesson, i.e. use violence against violence.

True alpha dogs lead by controlling the pack’s resources, for example through the NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) program.

3. A dominant dog should be carefully managed and supervised.

You want to step in and stop any aggressive behaviors before your dog escalates. Prevention is key when dealing with a dominant dog because it stops your dog from practicing his dominant behaviors, and it enforces the important lesson that you are calm and in charge.




A dominant dog needs a calm and assertive pack leader.




A dominant dog should have more rules.




A dominant dog should have frequent obedience training sessions.

4. A dominant dog should have more rules.

To become a good pack leader to a dominant dog it is important to develop a comprehensive set of house rules for him to follow. Always be consistent with enforcing all of those rules.

My Shiba Inu’s most important house rules include – no getting on furniture, no biting on people. no leash biting, and no food aggression or resource guarding.

5. A dominant dog should have frequent obedience training sessions.

Schedule at least two or more short (10 – 15 minutes) dog obedience training sessions with your dominant dog every day. It is a good idea to keep up with obedience training exercises throughout a dominant dog’s life, so that it is clear that you are in charge.

6. Use proper equipment to control a dominant dog.

When dealing with a dominant dog, safety should always be a primary concern.

Use whatever equipment is necessary to keep all the people around your dominant dog safe. It may be useful to leave a drag lead on your dominant dog, so that you can easily control him without physically laying hands on him or his collar; and without resorting to chasing games.

If your dominant dog bites at people, it may be necessary to use a muzzle. Use a basket muzzle so that his mouth is not overly constrained and he is not too uncomfortable. A basket muzzle will still allow your dog to eat and pant.

Be careful not to aggravate your dominant dog’s aggressive behavior by overly constraining him, and causing barrier frustration. When in doubt, consult a professional trainer.

7. Always set your dominant dog up for success.

Always try to minimize the number of dominant displays. Identify objects (e.g. other dogs, cats) and environmental conditions (e.g. loud noise) that trigger dominant behaviors, and avoid those triggers.

Then, gradually desensitize your dog to those triggers, in a controlled fashion.




Always set your dominant dog up for success.











Is it challenging to control your dominant dog?

Yes, very much so.
Medium difficulty.
No, not very difficult.



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Many dog behavioral issues including resource guarding, biting humans, dog-to-dog aggression, sensitivity to handling, growling at humans, and disobedience, are often attributed to “the dominant dog“.

However, each of these problems are unique, and complex. They are usually the result of many factors; one of which may be dominance. Many behavioral issues may also be the result of stress and fear, and not be related to dominance at all.

When dealing with dog behavioral issues, it is best to keep an open mind.

Observe your dog and his environment carefully, identify the triggers for his aggressive behavior, and try to understand why he is responding in this way. If your dog’s aggression is extreme (e.g. he is breaking skin, and/or causing puncture wounds) hire a professional trainer to help you carefully trouble-shoot the problems.




Dominant Dog - When dealing with dog behavioral issues, it is best to keep an open mind.

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