Weimerainer and puggle episode question on diet

[finallyfree2bme]

I saw your episode and was very interested in your diet recommendation on L-tryptophan with rice and carrots. Do you recommend giving the dog the rice raw and carrots raw or cooked. I am curious also about the reason for giving the rice and carrots after the main meal. I realize dogs and humans do have different digestive rations and would like a clarification. In alternative medicine it is recommended to eat the proteins after the carbs because the proteins take longer to digest. Do you know if this is the opposite for dogs?

[Maxy24]

I unfortunately missed the episode, was there a reason she was feeding the dog in a special way?

I would personally never give my dog rice or carrots for anything other than a treat (carrots) or if my dog has a stomach ache and needs something bland (rice). I personally would feed grain free food with no or few fruits and veggies if I fed commercial food. Ideally I think everyone should feed a raw prey model diet consisting of muscle meat, bone, liver and other organs.

I know cats digest proteins before carbs, it could be the same for dogs but not sure.

[Mattie]

Maxy not all dogs can eat raw food, some dogs are alergic to raw meat especially beef. The main ingredients in the food I give my dogs are lamb, white rice and sugar beet. I have a dog that is alergic to a lot of foods including raw meat, he can't even have a bone with a little raw meat on. He is also alergic to brown rice but is fine with white. I have another dog that has a very sensitive tummy, raw meat gives him the runs.

[Liz & Koa]

Yes,

The reason was the dog was very reactive and Vicoria said there was something in the rice and carrots that would help with this.

It was a good episode, but this dog had bitten, I think, three children and some adults. I can't immagine it would work.

I am going through the same thing with my dog Koa. He has lunged at one person and done some damage.

I have had enough.

[Maxy24]

I have never heard of a dog being allergic to all raw meat, many are allergic to chicken and many cats I know are allergic to beef, but I've never heard of it being a raw thing, just certain types of meat. You don't have to feed raw of course, there are plenty of good commercial food for dogs, not so much cats, but dogs do better with grains and starches. I would still choose foods with as few grains and fruits/veggies as possible, they mostly pop back out the other end. It doesn't make sense to me how these things would help with aggression or reactivity.

[jessthov2006]

Carrots and rice both contain Tryptophan. Tryptophan is a pre-cursor to Serotonin which is the "happy" chemical in the brain. Most commercial foods are lacking in adequate amounts of tryptophan.

Serotonin regulates mood and arousal levels. When a dog has low serotonin levels it can lead to anxiety, obsessions, learning impairments, and aggression. It also aids in impulse control, a serotonin low dog is less likely to inhibit its aggression.

So if you increase the dogs serotonin levels, whether through supplementing with tryptophan, or the use of SSRI's (the two shouldn't be used together) you're going to tip the scales in your favor when used in conjunction with a behavior mod. program.

Behavior can be affected by so many things, I think its important to look at all angles when working on a problem like this.

The idea of using carrots and rice was new to me, since they are mainly fillers, but if the dog can pull the tryptophan from it without adding extra calories to the diet, I say go for it. Its always nice to find something natural rather than having to turn to drugs straight away.

As far as dogs being allergic to raw foods, yes some may be allergic to one protein or another but not all. There is a huge difference between the cooked proteins in kibbles and raw proteins. So much difference in fact that many dogs who are allergic to a protein source in kibble, do great on that protein source when fed raw. Cooking changes food so much.

Digestive issues when starting raw are fairly normal. You're essentially teaching the digestive tract something new. It doesn't know what to do with the new food so it "reacts". Let's say you ate nothing but vegetables for a long period of time. One day you decide to go out for a steak. You're probably not going to feel really well because your system is going to go "Woah, what's that!".

That's the reason it is often recommended to new raw feeders that they start out simple. One easy to digest protein source, usually bone in chicken. The bone content in addition to adding important nutrients helps firm up the stool. Once the dogs stool becomes normal on the chicken other things can be gradually introduced until the dog can handle variety.

[Fundog]

Jess-- that was very informative; thank you.

[Mattie]

As far as dogs being allergic to raw foods, yes some may be allergic to one protein or another but not all. There is a huge difference between the cooked proteins in kibbles and raw proteins. So much difference in fact that many dogs who are allergic to a protein source in kibble, do great on that protein source when fed raw. Cooking changes food so much.

Joe is allergic to raw beef, pork, chicken, rabbit, venison and turkey, the only raw meat he can eat is lamb. He is also allergic to most grains including brown rice but is fine with white rice. Joe was given drugs by his previous owner's teenage son so this could have something to do with it. Finding a food for him was a nightmare.

Thank you for that information, I had heard that rice could influence Serotonin but didn't know anything more.

[jessthov2006]

As far as dogs being allergic to raw foods, yes some may be allergic to one protein or another but not all. There is a huge difference between the cooked proteins in kibbles and raw proteins. So much difference in fact that many dogs who are allergic to a protein source in kibble, do great on that protein source when fed raw. Cooking changes food so much.

Joe is allergic to raw beef, pork, chicken, rabbit, venison and turkey, the only raw meat he can eat is lamb. He is also allergic to most grains including brown rice but is fine with white rice. Joe was given drugs by his previous owner's teenage son so this could have something to do with it. Finding a food for him was a nightmare.

Thank you for that information, I had heard that rice could influence Serotonin but didn't know anything more.

That's tough, poor pup. Reminds me of another raw feeder who had a cat with severe allergies. The cat was highly allergic to grain and couldn't even eat meat that had been grain fed.

[Lis & Addy]

"Allergic" may be the wrong term, but lots of dogs can't handle a raw diet. Dogs have lived with humans for a very long time, now, and mostly eaten human leftovers, which, since humans started cooking food before we were fully human, has meant mostly (not exclusively, by any means) cooked food.

This is much less true of cat, who are also obligate carnivores, which dogs aren't.

Lis

[Ruby Tuesday]

I was fascinated by this episode, I have read about the interaction of diet and behavior before but only a small amount. I had to laugh because my Pug LOVEs carrots, he prefers them to biscuits and jerky and even cheese and meat. I wonder if it is why Pugs are so happy? LOL Well he is a happy easy going little guy, course it helps he is a Pug I am sure. But what an interesting bit of info. Thanks once again Victoria.

And thank you because now my little guy no longer rushes the door and he happily and proudly waits at the top of the stairs when the mailman comes to the door.

[Mattie]

"Allergic" may be the wrong term,

Lis

I missed this, I have a dog that is alergic to raw meat, so why is Allergic the wrong term?