Shock Collar

Discussion of specific It's Me or the Dog episodes.

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dobiemuse
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Shock Collar

Post by dobiemuse » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:15 am

In a non-dog related forum, someone was asking about advice for shock collars. I, of course, tried to gently steer them away from it to positive training. I was not the only one. Unfortunately, several others piped up with "it worked for me". Yes, it was upsetting, but nothing I can do if that is what they choose. As far as I know it hasn't been decided yet.

The reason I posted it here is because I enjoyed the episode where she threw away the shock collar. What I hope to see (perhaps in a future episode) are specific consequences. Perhaps even eluding to a case where the consequences could be seen not just mentioned. Even a good snippet of that might show the difference between this harsh "correction" and positive training.

Of course this isn't the only issue on training collars, but since I saw so many people applauding the device, I thought it would be one to bring up in a very specific way.

Thanks for use of the soap box. :)

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Mattie
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Post by Mattie » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:07 am

You can always suggest she comes here for advise as this is a dog training forum. :D
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dobiemuse
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Post by dobiemuse » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:41 pm

Well, actually the reason I posted it here is because there were so many saying "it worked for me" not just the one person. A tv show can get to more people and by seeing the results (since most humans are visually oriented) perhaps it would have a greater impact.

Honestly, I don't think she was into training as much as quick results. :?

Gershep1
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Post by Gershep1 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:27 am

dobiemuse wrote:Well, actually the reason I posted it here is because there were so many saying "it worked for me" not just the one person. A tv show can get to more people and by seeing the results (since most humans are visually oriented) perhaps it would have a greater impact.

Honestly, I don't think she was into training as much as quick results. :?
It might have been good for Victoria to ask the owner to try the collar on themselves and see the reaction (real reaction, not a person hamming it up for the cameras like a bad actor). Shock collars are popular because they're a "quick fix." Even in situations where serious training is supposed to be the be all and end all, shock collars often rule the school. I was once a member of a schutzhund club with over 25 handlers and I was the only person not using a shock collar to train my dog. Very creepy.

Disney Paws
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Post by Disney Paws » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:29 pm

I was glad when Victoria shocked the owner at the lowest level, when that poor tiny dog had it at one of the higher levels as a puppy who was just a few months old! Look at that dog, it did not work, it made things terribly worse, and left a scar phsyically and emotionally. I couldn't believe that a dog trainer recommended that, and the owner had actually listened!

If you mean the shock fence one with the boxer and not the bulldog one, I was glad she threw that one away, too.

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Shock collar helped destroy my dog

Post by m8r5k » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:03 pm

My American Eskimo is my first dog in my adult life. I put a shock collar on him because of the many positive things I heard about it. If only I had researched it more. It is the only mistake in my life I wish I could take back. Instead of thinking bark = shock He took it as people = shock. Now my dog is terrified to be around other people.

Marley
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Post by Marley » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:18 pm

A man was recently sentenced to 16 years in prison for using a shock collar on his kids.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0901 ... k_collar_1

PugLover204
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Bark Collars

Post by PugLover204 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:55 pm

I bought one of those citronella dog collars for my pug and it worked great the first week but then he got used to the spray and it did not work as good. I used the shock collar next and it worked great. It was hard on him, Woodstock, the first two-three days but he learned quick. Just make sure to take the collar of him at night.

-Wesley
Anchorage, AK

wvvdiup1
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Post by wvvdiup1 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:01 am

Puglover,do you know shock collars do damage to a dog's throat? Not only do shock collars do physical damage, they do psychological damages as well! You're teaching your dog to fear you, not respect and trust you. Throw away the shock collar(s) and citronella sprays! Use positive reinforcement training and your dog will be physically and mentally healthy, and in the long, respect you.

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Mattie
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Re: Bark Collars

Post by Mattie » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:41 am

PugLover204 wrote:I bought one of those citronella dog collars for my pug and it worked great the first week but then he got used to the spray and it did not work as good. I used the shock collar next and it worked great. It was hard on him, Woodstock, the first two-three days but he learned quick. Just make sure to take the collar of him at night.

-Wesley
Anchorage, AK

Puglover, if you were learning to do something and was struggling to get it, do you think using a shock collar on you every time you got it wrong would teach you what you were trying to learn? What effect would it have on you?

It is well known that dogs adapt to the spray collars, water or air is bad enough but to use citronella is cruel, the citronella stays in the dog's nose for quite some time and it stings the eyes and nose.

Of course he learnt, wouldn't you learn if when you done wrong a shock collar was used on you?

It is our choice to take on a dog, our dog doesn't have this choice, it is out DUTY to train the dog in the kindest way we can, shock collars are cruel and when used is abusing your dog. Thow it away and train your dog properly.

If you used a shock collar on your child you would be prosecuted so why is it ok to use one on your dog?
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PugLover204
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Post by PugLover204 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:03 pm

I do not see how you all think these collars are so evil. They did an excellent job in teaching and trainning my dog not to bark soo much and it did not hurt him at all.
<a>Dog Bark Collars</a>

Leigha
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Post by Leigha » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:52 pm

*steps up on soap box*

Put the shock collar on your baby to teach your baby not to cry at night when you want to sleep. Do you think your baby would eventually realize that "hey I better shut up or else I'll get zapped?" Yeah probably. Would it be cruel? ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY! How do you KNOW it didn't hurt your dog? Do you have a psychic link with your dog? Do you share the sensation of touch with your dog? It didn't teach your dog in what situations barking is appropriate, it taught your dog to not bark at all, ever, because barking means I'm going to get the bejeezus shocked out of me.

Do shock collars work? Unfortunately they do, and because they do people will keep right on using them. But they work for the wrong reasons. There are better ways to train your dog than to use a shock collar. Now, I can say this because I'm coming from the situation of being a reformed shock collar user. I used one on my puppy--please note that was used in the past tense because it's no longer used in my household and will never be used again. TRAINING my dog works a lot better than PUNISHING my dog.

*steps down off of soap box*

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Mattie
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Post by Mattie » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:39 am

PugLover204 wrote:I do not see how you all think these collars are so evil. They did an excellent job in teaching and trainning my dog not to bark soo much and it did not hurt him at all.

First, recommending these collars are against this board's rules, Victoria only uses positive methods and as it is her board she sets the rules.

You think you know more than Victoria and many more experienced behaviourists and trainers, how much experience do you have training dogs? Very little I expect.

How do you know the collar didn't hurt your dog? He is a dog, he can't tell you but just has to put up with it. How would you feel if every time you talked you got an electric shock?

Barking is communication, your dog was trying to tell you something when he barked and for that he got a shock. I have taken on 2 dogs that had been taught not to growl, growling like barking is communication, both these dogs were dangerous when I first got them because they never warned and this is how your dog will be. Shocking him to stop him barking has taught him that you don't listen to him, you hurt him instead.

Try spraying citronella on your face and feel just how long it lingers in your eyes and nose and also how much it stings.

Punishment has no place in training anything, dogs, horses, children, even crocodiles are now being clicker trained, said on the TV last night :D Clicker training crocodiles stops them thinking that when someone takes their food in they don't eat the person because they are not food.
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emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:07 am

Puglover,

The guidelines and training ethic of this board mean that shock collars and spray collars are NOT to be recommended.

There is extremely good reason for this - training using positive punishment and aversives can easily lead to unwanted unpleasant side effects or 'fall out' which you wont know about, until they happen.

Positive reinforcement doesnt have this problem, and is also kind and humane unlike aversives such as shock collars.

The answer to a dog barking inappropriately is to remove his reason for barking in the first place, be that boredom, loneliness, anxiety, attention seeking - simply using brute force and ignorance, which using a shock collar in this way IS, is just removing the symptom,your dog still feels whatever it is that is causing him to bark and he will find another way of expressing that unless you address the cause.

Just as the spray collar only worked for a short time, you might WELL find that the shock collar loses efficacy... you might have to crank it right up until you are really shocking the sh*t out of your dog before he responds, because it is a symptom of a problem and NOT cause of the problem. At what point do you decide its too much... when you are taking yoru dog off his feet and across the room? when smoke comes outta his ears?..

wvvdiup1
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Post by wvvdiup1 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:54 pm

Puglover,

Remember this: Positive reinforce training may take a little longer; but in the long run, it definately pays off and it is well worth it, compared to other methods, which in the end, not only does it NOT work, but it causes more training. You know what that means: more training in addition to professional consultation for the negative behaviors and other psychological or mental health problems! You don't want that, do you?

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