Sorry, I can't describe how I feel when I saw this.

[Mattie]

I am surprised this hasn't been round the internet before, to me this is abuse of a dog to put it through this to make good tv.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRAQXOAMz0

[Sarah83]

Are you talking about the dog used to "bring out the anxiety" in the other dogs?

[Mattie]

That poor dog, he is being used to wind the other dogs up and the other dogs are being wind up for good tv. To me this isn't what tv should be about, it makes animals look like they don't matter as long as they get good ratings.

If one of the dogs being wind up got free, just think of the damage to that dog before they could stop it.

[leslie123]

Thats very disturbing.

[Noobs]

Disgusting. And the guy is okay with putting himself in that position, and the dogs as well. Shows you how ignorant people are.

[Sarah83]

Have to agree with you on both counts there Mattie. Not fair on the dog being attacked and not fair on the dogs being wound up. Am I mishearing or is the dog being used that way a rehabbed dog too?

[Mattie]

From what I can gather the dog is being wind up for CM program to make him look better.

[Sarah83]

Yeah I know but right at the beginning it says something about Curly proving too much to handle and showing him lunging and all that at something and says that Cesar took him into the pack.

[bball3liz]

It is a bit strange how they talk about it in the clip. CM tries to correct behaviour, and to correct that behaviour the dog has to be SHOWN that it is incorrect. It's not like you can sit down and say "ok Mac, you know when you are with other dogs? You need to react this way." With dog to dog aggression, how else can a dog learn how to act unless he is around another dog and a certain temperament that may upset him? CM brings in a dog that is going to be a BIGGER challenge, so the dog learns in a situation where anxiety is high. If CM brought in Daddy everytime, it wouldn't really be targeting the dogs issue with unbalanced high anxiety dogs. I really don't think CM is a negative or bad role model for dog behaviour. Just different methods. Diversity is good and expands our knowledge. That clip didn't look good for Mac's owners, but I am sure they work on it with them too, it is CM we are talking about. Clearly a dog lover and an individual who is devoted to helping dog owners world wide. That is looking at the big picture though. Through editing and such, clips can be made to look more negative then they are.

[Nettle]

That is appalling. There are far better ways to help reactive dogs.

[Noobs]

Yes, obviously CM doesn't hate dogs. But his methods are very old school and uses aversives. Yes it is different. But there are better ways, and the point of this forum is to show owners the safer, less harmful (to the dogs and to the dog-human relationship), and yes, more EFFECTIVE way.

[jacksdad]

It is a bit strange how they talk about it in the clip. Cesar tries to correct behaviour, and to correct that behaviour the dog has to be SHOWN that it is incorrect. It's not like you can sit down and say "ok Mac, you know when you are with other dogs? You need to react this way." With dog to dog aggression, how else can a dog learn how to act unless he is around another dog and a certain temperament that may upset him?

What you describe is a perfect and legitimate reason TO be aggressive. We want our dogs to NOT be aggressive and even more important not be given a reason to be aggressive. If you continually put them into a situation where they "are upset" or "under threat" then we can't fault the dog for feeling like it needs to be on guard and defensive. best defense is a good offense and dogs have every right to defend them self too, particularly if they are intentionally put into a dangerous situation.

You absolutely do NOT need to do this to help a dog learn they do not need to behave aggressively whenever they see a dog. Most people with a dog who has aggression issues have a dog that has fear and confidence issues. want to help that dog? STOP PUTTING THEM IN SITUATIONS that brings out fear/anxiety. You absolutely can help a dog deal with the things that cause them to over react (ie displays of aggression), but you don't do it by constantly asking them to work beyond what they are capable of at that point in time.

Cesar brings in a dog that is going to be a BIGGER challenge, so the dog learns in a situation where anxiety is high. If Cesar brought in Daddy everytime, it wouldn't really be targeting the dogs issue with unbalanced high anxiety dogs.

When you teach a child to swim you don't throw them into the ocean with the waves crashing around them. you put them into a calm shallow pool and build them up slowly. teaching them skills and letting the know you are there if they need you. let them become comfortable with large bodies of water by starting them in safe calm water. Same needs to be done with high anxiety dogs. when a dog is in a state of high anxiety and arousal and under threat, they can't learn. they default to self defense, ie displays of aggression. if you punish them for that, they eventually shutdown and try and be invisible. neither is a desirable outcome.

Start by teaching your dog to calmly look at dogs from a distance, then adding in planed and supervised interaction with calm safe dogs...simplified as there is a lot more to it than that, but that is the right way to do it.

I really don't think Cesar is a negative or bad role model for dog behaviour. Just different methods. Diversity is good and expands our knowledge. That clip didn't look good for Mac's owners, but I am sure they work on it with them too, it is Cesar Milan we are talking about.

yes we are, and when it comes to dog aggression issues he is way, way over his head and has no business working dog aggression cases.

Clearly a dog lover

I give him the benefit of the doubt on this point. but that still doesn't make up for his lack of knowledge in some areas of dog behavior.

[thepennywhistle]

I heard a quote from Monty Roberts last week (yes, I know, but his heart is in
the right place). He said "No one is born with the right to say to another
creature 'do what I want or I'll hurt you.'" I wish that was the basis of all
training techniques.

[emmabeth]

Guys can you do me a huge favor please - dont type out his name in full because it then shows up on google searches and tends to attract trolls and flamers.

Ill leave this thread open for the time being but I WILL go and edit peoples posts to change his name out to CM in a day or so if you havent done it by then - this forum isn't for arguing about the guy, though I appreciate (ha more than you know!!) how much he winds people up and upsets them too and the technique shown there of purposely winding dogs up IS a valid topic for conversation.

[wvvdiup1]

I know how I feel right after seeing that video, and believe me, you don't want to know! You know how Bill Engvall, the American comedian, says "Here's your sign" and says whatever it is? Here are CM's and his assistants' signs that should be tattooed on their foreheads and it says: "I'm an idiot!"