USA vs. UK laws

[Desiree]

Why doesn't the US have the same laws as the UK when it comes to animals? I have been thinking about it and after reading several posts from those of you I know live in the UK it sounds like the laws there are much stricter. Like where I live, the people who are running dog fighting rings hardly ever get anything more than a couple years probation, if that. Some of the bigger cities here have stricter codes about having animals licensed and how many animals you can have. I don't know how much those are enforced, but where Im at no one does anything about enforcing the rules. From what I have read from you guys in the UK, it sounds like there are more laws for animal control and safety and they are better enforced. I know I have also read that we interact differently with our dogs in the US than in the UK. I'm not quite sure what that entails, but I just wondered why such the difference?

[thepennywhistle]

Some of the areas in the U.S. are fiercely strict, others not so much.
Where I lived in Florida animal care regulations were seldom enforced.
I saw many starving animals in fields, dogs chained outside with nothing
to eat and no shelter, etc. There was even a breeder of fighting pit bulls
at the end of my street. It was awful. There were scheduled fights
every week, and every one knew where. Stopping them was another
matter, as the local Sheriff attended and enjoyed every single match.
No help there. That was just rural Florida.

Where I live now there are rules, regulations, and the Pet Nazi (also
known as animal control) that inspect at will, seize at will, and are
generally rather scary. They demand by law that there will be
immediate medical care for any animal you have control of, shelter 24/7,
water and food 24/7, a tidy yard -- in short, all the things we normally do
for our animals. If you delay medical care, as your neighbor has
for the cat, and then took it to the humane society, they'd take it,
help it in one way or another, and then you would find Animal Control
on your doorstep to arrest you for animal cruelty.

My best guess would be that rural communities are more lax, but the
cities these days are eager to enforce animal welfare laws and add
more laws all the time.

[emmabeth]

It is interesting to get other peoples perspectives from other countries.

Here in the UK, a lot of us with satellite/cable tv watch US animal welfare/animal cops type shows and wish we had folk here who could do what they can do..

Here we have some laws - not all that many really, and not all that well policed. Sure theres less dog fighting - but theres less of us here! We are a titchy island - there still IS dog fighting, and illegal breeds, and still incidences where the police known darn well WHO and WHERE.... but cannot or will not take action because of the risks involved to themselves.

Pitbulls (and three other breeds, none of which have ever actually been seen in the UK let alone bred or regularly kept here) are banned, and have been since 1991.

There are now more dogs of 'pitbull type' (the actual law bans pit bull terriers, their crosses and dogs of pitbull type.. basically anything that roughly fits a pit breed standard, which will include a lot of dogs who have no pit bull ancestry at all. A labrador fits the criteria to about 90%!) in the UK than there ever were in 1991.

The way that law currently stands, you can (and people HAVE), be walking your dog down the road to your dog training class and the police can stop you and take your dog away to be examined to see if it is a pitbull. In some areas you will be given a choice, to give the dog up willingly and agree to have it put down straight away - or to not allow them to take it, so they take it without your consent, have the dog examined by an 'expert' (ie, some guy reading a sheet of rules and measuring the dogs body parts), and then... if it isnt a pitbull, yay you get your dog back - probably MONTHS after it was taken, months of being kept in a secret kennels somewhere, denied exercise, possibly (there have been cases) not medically treated properly, possibly (again, there have been cases) injured or mentally affected by the confinement.

If your dog IS found to be a pitbull, then you can ask the courts to consider that the animal is not a danger to humans and as such, be added to the register of exempt dogs. That again takes months and you have to go to court and provide a ton of evidence and get the services of a canine legal expert.

IF your dog is found NOT to be a danger... (dont be taking a mouthful of drink or food when you read this bit) - but he is a pitbull.... then he has to be:

Kept on a leash AND muzzled when in a public place (this includes your car and your front garden as well as the more usual places).
Tattooed up the inner thigh (huge and horrible tattoo, very very visible, done the same way human tattoos are done on an unconcious or sedated dog).
Spayed/neutered.
Insured for public liability (only one company as far as i am aware offers this insurance so you pay whatever they want to charge for it).
Not bred from, sold, given away, or left in the charge of someone under 16 (or 18, not sure).

Thats a helluva set of restrictions for a dog deemed by the courts and by experts to NOT be dangerous!

A lot of our animal legislation is in fact, guidelines that local authorities may adopt if they choose to do so. Some of these govern the way animals are looked after, and a local authority can choose to farm the responsiblity for this out to the local branch of the RSPCA, a charity. They have no powers to do anything a normal person doesnt, ie, any prosecution they bring is a private prosecution (just like, if you had the money, you or I could do), so they will only take on teh cases they are very sure of winning.

As a result, some areas of the UK are brilliant at animal welfare and some are absolutely awful.

Most of the laws we have are not upheld particularly well - dog fouling and leash laws spring to mind though in recent years we have had more leash laws brought in and policed. It is more common for people to pick up their dogs mess behind them, but in some 15 years of being the 'responsible adult' dog owner (ie responsible for picking up the poo) - I have only ever seen someone approached regarding picking up dog mess ONCE... and that person was ME (I had clocked the dog do a poo by the base of a tree, but was waiting, sat at a picnic bench, until I had finished eating before i went to pick it up. Said dog wardens did watch that i picked it up once i had finished, which i would have anyway though I guess they were not to know that!).

So - the UKs animal laws in a lot of respects may not actually be so great as they appear!

[wvvdiup1]

I think that depends on your locality and state, Desiree. I know that there are budget cuts going on nationwide, however, I don't think animals should suffer because of this.

It seems the stricter the laws, the more of the cost to dog owners. It's like having the proverbial choke collar around your neck getting tighter. Yet, where I live, the laws are redundant; they seem to say the same things over. We need to rewrite our laws to cover a lot more things. However, when someone is brought up on some offense in court, everything seems to be handled case-by-case; that is, what the circumstances were and are, as it relates to the case. And, of course, the court case is also worked out by precedent; that is, did a similar court case come before, what happened there, and what was/were the outcome(s).

For example, I know some of you, including myself, have said many things about the reputation of Pitt Bulls, how they get that reputation by their "bad" owners, and how society views Pitt Bulls just because what they've seen and heard in the media. We know with good training and good management, Pitt Bulls make good dogs, just like any other breed of dog, whether it is a purebreed, mix, or designer breed. All dogs can be potentially dangerous if not properly trained and managed. I think laws need to be addressed to any animal owner and to all animal abusers, not the dogs!

[pmcrae71]

I know in the county I live in in Florida, there just isn't enough money to fund animal control and have enough officers to enforce the laws. The laws are not easy to enforce and the punishments are minimal at best because people don't 'care' about the animals, weather they are dogs, cats or mice. Their well fair, care and health just are not a priority. But what the authorities and courts don't understand is that if a person can do this to an animal, they can do it to a person. I wish every state, county, city or township had laws and regulations like the animal cops shows we have on animal planet. The world would be a much better place if we did.

[Fundog]

Thats a helluva set of restrictions for a dog deemed by the courts and by experts to NOT be dangerous!

Oh, good grief! Registered pedophiles here in the U.S. have more freedom and fewer restrictions!!!

[wvvdiup1]

Fundog wrote:

Oh, good grief! Registered pedophiles here in the U.S. have more freedom and fewer restrictions!!!

No they don't! Are you familiar with "Megan's Law?"

[Desiree]

I gotta agree with Fundog on that one. My job allows me to see many things including sentences, for all kinds of crimes and alot of them are woefully short. I could say all sorts of things but this is probably not the place for that

I honestly wish that there was a law that whatever horrible things people do to animals could be done to them right back. An eye for an eye sort of thing. That would get their attention. I know its not possible, but sometimes... I had read about a dog that got thrown off an highway overpass, and I just really thought throwing that person who did that over an overpass seemed like the proper punishment. I can't watch Animal Cops or any of those shows, and I def couldn't do that work. I just have to find different ways to help

[wvvdiup1]

Desiree mentioned about seeing the sentences pedophiles and other criminals get, however, pedophiles may not get the sentences we would like to see them get, but prison is another matter altogether. Pedophiles have to be kept in separate from the other inmates because the other inmates will kill a pedophile. Pedophiles are considered the worst criminals in the eyes of the other inmates for what they do to children. If and when they get out, they have to try to survive the neighborhood in which they reside...

What abuse, torture, and so on people do to animals -yes I have to agree with Desiree on that one- I feel like doing it to them. But violence doesn't solve problems, intelligent people do.

[Desiree]

But sometimes the violence would make ME feel better Just kidding, sort of.. Im a pretty easy going person, hard to get riled up, hard to offend and so on. But when it comes to things that can't defend themselves, animals and children, my other side comes out.